So do you think heavier people would benefit from stronger stiffer frames or not? Or do you want to ignore those points so you can criticise those with nicer bikes than you feel they deserve, while bleating about some non-existent restriction to your freedom of expression

Thanks for the disclaimer smiley. That always makes aggression ok.

Most people would benefit from stronger, stiffer frames (unless you are talking hardtails in which case compliance in the tubes themselves is an advantage in my opinion). But most people would benefit MORE from losing the weight from their body and the accompanying fitness gains.

And I am aware that weight loss and fitness are not necessarily one and the same thing (anorexia and all manner of horrible illnesses for example) before you try to nitpick an argument over a peripheral point as seems your modus operandi.

Anyway I suspect that if I suddenly started agreeing with everything you said, you would try to pick a fight about me not having ideas of my own. 😐

Cheap bikes today are better than most expensive bikes not so long ago. And also cheaper than cheap bikes used to be. I’ve still got my 90s Carrera in the attic, £350 it was and a great buy in its day. Tange tubes, shimano drivetrain all through, nice bonty wheels, smoke and dart. Oh and a flexstem but you can’t win ’em all. And all in all, pretty much as capable as a housebrick, just like every other old bike.

Today, that £350- even ignoring inflation- gets you a bike that if you could go back in time to then, would be the best bike in the world. I mean, you wouldn’t even get to ride it, it’d get stolen instantly by a Specialized ninja for reverse engineering. That’s pretty damn good.

dannyh – Member

At the other end of the spectrum there are also some people who carry a bit more timber around the midriff than optimal, but ride carbon frames. The reality is they would be better off losing half a stone rather than spending hundreds more quid for an irrelevant weight saving.

This always strikes me as a particularily daft idea. Do you think anyone’s going “Hmm, what will I do, save some weight or buy some carbon? I’ll buy new bars, that’ll mean it’s fine for me to be overweight”. It’s totally different things and it’s not one or the other or a choice between the two. Yes many people can benefit from losing weight but they can’t do it in 5 minutes with a credit card and an allen key so putting one against the other is just nonsense.

And saving weight from the bike isn’t even equivalent to saving body weight- a lighter bike rides different to a heavier bike. Effectively the rider is sprung mass and the entire bike is unsprung, every time you move the bike that weight loss is in effect.

Anyone can enjoy a mountain bike ride, providing they have two things, a mountain bike and the ability to ride a bike.
You could have a good day out on a 15 year rock hopper.

That said it is nice to have nice things but not having the best does not stop you enjoying what you have.
There is no qualification required to own a six grand bike, regardless of skill, profession, age or bodymass index,
All you require is six grand.

This always strikes me as a particularily stupid idea. Do you think anyone’s going “Hmm, what will I do, save some weight or buy some carbon? I’ll buy new bars, that’ll mean it’s fine for me to be overweight”. It’s totally different things. Yes many people can benefit from losing weight but they can’t do it in 5 minutes with a credit card and an allen key so putting one against the other is just nonsense.

Can someone please translate this for me? I guessed from the start that it is disagreeing with me and I’d like to answer, but as I have absolutely no idea what Northwind is on about, I can’t.

There is no qualification required to own a six grand bike, regardless of skill, profession, age or bodymass index,

All you require is more money than sense.

I’m a submariner in the royal navy, this means I go away for long periods of time alot of time with no option to train due to constrains of said job. I am fatter 14stone 5ft 9 and less fit than I want to be and I ride a carbon bike why because I work hard for my money and want to enjoy it.

However when you see me on the trails im sure i will fall into the middle aged it guy riding a carbon bike, don’t always judge a book by its cover.

Edit. For some reason it posted twice

dannyh – Member

Can someone please translate this for me? I guessed from the start that it is disagreeing with me and I’d like to answer, but as I have absolutely no idea what Northwind is on about, I can’t.

I honestly don’t know how I can make it any clearer 😕

[Euro – Member
more money than sense.

That statement is often said of me, the sad part being, I have **** all money. 😀

I’m a submariner in the royal navy, this means I go away for long periods of time alot of time with no option to train due to constrains of said job. I am fatter 14stone 5ft 9 and less fit than I want to be and I ride a carbon bike why because I work hard for my money and want to enjoy it.

However when you see me on the trails im sure i will fall into the middle aged it guy riding a carbon bike, don’t always judge a book by its cover.

Good for you. You have made a decision based on your particular circumstances and are happy with it. Do your (very particular) set of circumstances invalidate my point for the vast majority of people?

If you are a middle aged bloke riding a carbon bike why would you not fit into the ‘middle aged guy riding a carbon bike’ category? Are you saying there is also an accompanying prejudice here? If so, I wouldn’t be able to be prejudiced as most of the time I can’t tell a carbon frame from a metal one on sight. That and the fact that it genuinely doesn’t occupy my thoughts when I’m out and about. I’m much more interested in saying hello and chatting about the general riding.

None of which actually invalidates my point.

I am now bored.

I am off.

+1 seemed pretty clear to me!

Today, that £350- even ignoring inflation- gets you a bike that if you could go back in time to then, would be the best bike in the world. I mean, you wouldn’t even get to ride it, it’d get stolen instantly by a Specialized ninja for reverse engineering. That’s pretty damn good.

New technology may be present, as is a ton of extra weight. And shite quality.

Give me a 80/90s £300 bike any day.

What bike someone rides or how much money they spend on it, there field of work, age, how many inches is printed on there waistband or car they drive has nothing to do with anyone but them.
And if they are not doing you any harm, the only reason behind anyone judging or making any negative remarks or comments is because they are mean people.

If I have a billion pound in the bank and have a six grand bike in the four car garage or earn £250 a week in a fish finger factory and live in a crumbling bedsit with wallpaper falling of the wall behind my six grand bike in the corner of my room , it’s got sod all to do with you, mind your own.

Today, that £350- even ignoring inflation- gets you a bike that if you could go back in time to then, would be the best bike in the world.

Can’t agree with that. There are some lovely early 90’s bikes that still ride superbly now and are at least as capable as a modern £350 bike.

chestrockwell – Member

Can’t agree with that. There are some lovely early 90’s bikes that still ride superbly now and are at least as capable as a modern £350 bike.

Some examples? There’s plenty that are great at the job they did at the time but as soon as you throw in modern brakes and effective suspension the game just changes. Even today’s rubbish tyres are mostly competitive. I’d happilly take today’s best entry level bikes, stick a bigger rotor and tyres on them, and take them to fort william or similiar, not something I’d say of anything that old.

But OK, a better comparison, £350 in 1990 is equivalent to about £700 today- which is a Voodoo Bizango and 100 bags of starmix.

However when you see me on the trails im sure i will fall into the middle aged it guy riding a carbon bike

i can see the guys designing the next generation crying “think of the fat blokes on the submarines ,they have needs too 😀

ps for the record my thoughts are yes way too **** expensive

however you cant take it with you and if the governemnt dont screw you out of every penny the bus you get hit by might

SPEND IT ALL NOW

OH ALSO BEST BIKE I EVER HAD WAS A SARACEN rufftrax it cost 200 quid and iirc when it broke it had been hammered for so many years and i mean hammered with no maintenance or TLC that it would have taken more effort to push it off Mam Tor than it was worth so we left it there………..it had done its job admirably

Dannyh in angry posting, well I never

I think the wider question is why does anyone give two hoots about what someone else does with their cash or what they ride?

Some examples? There’s plenty that are great at the job they did at the time but as soon as you throw in modern brakes and effective suspension the game just changes. Even today’s rubbish tyres are mostly competitive. I’d happilly take today’s best entry level bikes, stick a bigger rotor and tyres on them, and take them to fort william or similiar, not something I’d say of anything that old.

I’d much prefer a Yo Eddy, Mountain Goat, Roberts Bollox, Vitamin T, etc running M900 XTR then a £350 modern bike for most types of riding. Yes, they won’t win any DH races but will still fly cross country. Granted, canti’s come no where near discs but set up correctly they did, and still do stop you. Tweak any of the bikes above to suit modern tastes and they will still be ace.

I’m not saying retro bikes are the equal of modern bikes in the same class, far from it, but a low end modern bike transported back to 1993 would not be held up as the best bike in the world. I’m sure people would like the suss and possibly the discs (If it had them) but the groupset would not work any better then M900 and the weight of the thing would blow peoples mind.

chestrockwell – Member

I’d much prefer a Yo Eddy, Mountain Goat, Roberts Bollox, Vitamin T, etc running M900 XTR then a £350 modern bike for most types of riding.

I suppose this is down to the sort of riding you do, but I was lucky enough to ride a Yo Eddy last year- lusted after them when I was a kid- and what a let down. For basic XC, sure, it’s fine within its limitations- for my idea of what mountain biking was in 1990, it’d have been amazing. But today, nope. (I’d still have one mind, or a Xizang maybe…)

We obsessed about weight and top end shifting then because that’s all we had to obsess about really. As soon as you add half decent suspension, modern tyres, etc it’s a different game.

I don’t earn much, (postman, and only on part-time hours), but almost every penny I earn I spend on my bike. Because that’s where I like to spend my money. So I agree that people can, and should spend their money where they like, and yes. It is nobodies business. But the point made wasn’t “they are a big fella, they shouldn’t buy nice things”. The point made was that while there are in the shop flashing their debit cards looking for the lightest parts they can buy, they could just ride their bike, and lose weight. I only consider light parts now because at 68kg, 5ft 10in I don’t really have mass excess of weight to shed really. So now it’s the bike.
Me first, then the bike. Surely that should be the outlook?

But the point made wasn’t “they are a big fella, they shouldn’t buy nice things”. The point made was that while there are in the shop flashing their debit cards looking for the lightest parts they can buy, they could just ride their bike, and lose weight.

Alleluia the angels sang and the bells of heaven rang out. At least one person gets it.

Cheers to the earl of podgeness for that little dig. How are your trails at the moment and when are mere visitors like myself allowed to ride them again?