Surprised to see Fox forks mentioned. What's the beef with them?

Any company that produces bikes that makes it difficult, by way of design, to change the componentry. By this I mean features like Gary Fishers G2 geometry that limits what forks you can run; Cannondale's lefty (special hub/heaset etc). I actually refuse to buy Cannondale anyway.

For a long time I refused to buy anything from Freeborn because the guys at the Horsham branch are c*cks, but Rob at Esher is a great bloke so I go there now. That is also where I bought my last bike from. Yeah I know the money ends up in the same place, but I'll forgive that as the service at Esher is top notch.

Also, Tioga ever since the Factory DH tyres came out, they were everywhere! Mainly I think because the sidewall logos looked good at the time, can't think of any other reason! Only tyres I've swapped back to my old worn ones!

Raceface.

Ever since my Evolve X-Type cranks destroyed themselves due to a design fault and the subsequent lack of any help from their customer service dept I am hugely dubious about buying any of their products. I'm not alone, I have a friend with an identical issue with a pair of Deus cranks who shares my attitude.

So in summary. Everyone hates everything ever made by any company that's ever had anything to do with mountain biking. I refuse to buy any bike that has wheels. The hubs don't last, the spokes offend me, the nipples sound rude and the rims are all bent in a horrible uniform manner. Don't even get me started on the words and numbers they have on them …

Nonsense: I think the point is that there are certain companies that seem to come up over and over again, which is quite interesting – namely Crank Brothers, Endura, Cannondale, Hope, Manitou, etc

Same old Same old for me:

Crank Bros pedals – Lucky if they last a week.
Formula brakes – Lucky if they work.
Manitou Forks – Lucky to last the ride home.
Continental MTB tyres – Lucky if they don't kill you.
Pace forks – Lucky for them if they make retirement without being lynched.
Jones frames – Oooh look at me, lucky me, look at me arn't i Lucky.

Never had any probs with product or customer service from:

Fox forks – run them for years, they've been very good.
Hope brakes – 2nd to none for customer service, but the 1st gen mini (the silver split caliper ones) was an awful brake for me, it kept leaking between the two halfs. The discs are not the best thou.
Endura – although it sounds like i've just been Lucky 😆

No issues with Hope here, although I do have a Bulb hub that keeps going wobbly every three months and requires new bearings.

I've two sets of M4 brakes, a stem, hubs, seatclamps and headsets. The customer service is excellent and the Hope guys seem more than pleased to chat about their products.

If they can fix my Bulb hub I'll name my first born after the company.

Righto,

I dislike in no particular order

MBR mag = OVERHYPED marketing / magazines that pander to such bollax and the trendzzzz ie : for ever 'extreme' kit for the all singing middle manager : All mountain bikes which weigh a ton and just arent needed by most uk riders – ie full face helmets / goggles etc for normal trails which some have ridden quite happily on for 20 years with retro tech !!! 🙂

as to comapanies

PACE stuff – forks were /are shite / old square frames poorly made coupled with sublimely shite customer service then and now – thats based on personal and friends experience within / out biketrade

Orange – were brilliant – not as good now…

SSC kit for obvious forum reasons – and my pads always falling apart

Endura stuff used to be fantastic – not impressed last few years…

ISIS bbs and Crank bros pedals = dont last

FOX forks re unacceptable wear

Specialized bikes and their dismal own brand shox – but their customer service is top class to be fair

Sram gearing and chains = shite.

Shimano shadow mechs = shite.

Companies I love

Hope / Trek = ace support. I do like hope brakes too… I havent owned a new bomber so I have no prob with 'zocchi

I like Giant bikes…

I actually really like maddison for their service = top class – dislike their prices for stuff though !

I rate King despite high costs…

thats all folks !

mikey74 – Member
Nonsense: I think the point is that there are certain companies that seem to come up over and over again, which is quite interesting – namely Crank Brothers, Endura, Cannondale, Hope, Manitou, etc

Rubbish.

Cannondale has been mentioned about the same amount of times as Giant, less than Trek or Spesh.

As many people like Hope as dislike etc, etc.

Your own irrational prejudices are pretty obvious.

I wonder why people dislike one particular brand while swearing by another which might produce almost identical products?

As I've said many times before, isn't marketing great? We're all slaves to it whether consciously or not.

IRC tyres – don't like those I have (on wife's bike).
Race Face bottom brackets – trash!
Specialized gloves – great cut but last a week.
DMR flat pedals – don't like them under my foot.
Specialized bikes – dog ugly.
Genesis – Evans and Halfords associations.
USE seatposts – a Ti Alien snapped when I stood up riding over a sleeping policeman.
Hope headset Mk.1 – wasn't that great.
Avid brakes – didn' like the 5's.

Hah! Nonsense sums up neatly what I was about to say. I used to dislike Trek, purely because they were so conservative. Then they brought out the Remedy. And I bought one. I hope I never meet the bloke who reckons Cannondale owners are fascists, 'cos I'll deck him for that slur on my character, as I've owned three over the years. RaceFace? I've got stacks of their clothing, fits well, lasts for years and is comfortable. Works for me, as do my Turbine cranks and ISIS Signature BB. Fitted properly to a Hummer six and a half years ago, bearings replaced eighteen months later, whole lot swapped to my Inbred 567 three and a half years ago, still working perfectly, as are the Hope M4 Mono's and M4's, both dated '03, both still working perfectly with original pads and minimal fiddlng, both sets bled twice. About the only company I won't buy from now is Specialized, due to their habit of buying up patents and then forcing existing users to cough up to carry on using, like the Horst Link. I find that sort of behaviour immoral. Don't like Shimano much, mainly 'cos of their attempts to force people to use systems that wouldn't work with other kit, along with the fact that I really don't get on with their shifters at all, whereas SRAM has always worked perfectly for me, and I wouldn't use anything else. Again, my SRAM X9 kit on my 567 is getting on for seven years old, on the bike for nearly four years with original cables. Still works perfectly. Just can never understand why others seem to have problems. I hardly ever mess with the bikes, can't remember the last time I cleaned them.

I wouldn't touch Thomson/King on aesthetic grounds: dulldulldulldull – on every second bike i see on here.

661 gloves. Putting my fingers ends through their tissue paper gloves after a couple of weeks dissuaded me from touching anything of theirs again.

As someone above said: RaceFace clothing. Utter pish.

Kore. Just because.
Fox Forks – I've had two sets and they are service intensive. I can't be arsed.

I agree, marketing plays a massive role in our perceptions of a product… Although I try to judge upon a product's performance (or lack of *cough* RaceFace), I too have been guilty of simple prejudice.

Marketing is the reason why we think the very latest six inch "All Mountain" bike is the answer to a question we haven't actually asked – yes I'm guilty of this too – when a 100mm bike will be lighter, faster and more involving. The magazines are fashionista led, witness the chaps on the pages at obscure camera angles wearing the latest Sombrio kit and riding Lapierres because those flared stays are just so rad aren't they? Dammit, I NEED a linkage design bike with vertical axle paths and no chain growth because that is what the magazines tell me will make my riding better. Thankfully there are magazines like "Dirt" who are refreshingly BS free about why they like/dislike certain products and deconstruct the marketing mythology.

It works conversely too. Three years ago I wouldn't touch a Trek because I figured they were the brand Ned Flanders would favour given their plain colours, imbecilic presidential ownership profile and conservative designs. Now, thanks to some decent paintwork and an image makeover I'd quite fancy one of those Remedys (D'oh! There I go again with the whole "All Mountain" thing).

Now I've got that off my chest I'm going to throw those RaceFace cranks in the skip while I pour over the latest ego-fuelling "All Mountain" rig to thrash around the Southeast of England.

I'm with Nonsense.

Crank Bros – pump fell to bits, pedals likewise. I don't want to have to service pedals ffs.

Specialized / Trek – I'm a snob

Altura – its worn by speccy commuter types. Far too practical and good value for money;

A bit wary of Hope brakes (but love the hubs and headsets), race face bbs and anything by pace simply on reputation for being totally unreliable.

Stuff thats good is Fox forks, ground effect stuff, mavic stuff, my lbs, anything by shimano, anything by thomson, hope hub and headsets.

Got bored reading everything but here's my 2ps worth. I guided abroad for six years and now work in the UK trade so feel justified in my prejudices…

Hope brakes – they break, boil or come undone and are usually set up badly coz it takes an expert to do it right. (Great aftersales I've heard but probably coz they need to be…)
Hope QRs and Seat Post Clamps – Qrs are crap and come undone unless really cranked so tight they might break and the seat post clamps do break for the same reason (getting toward double figures on those that have broken in front of me with more first hand stories)
Crank Bros – the triumph of design over lasting quality!
Race Face – see Crank Bros…
Sram – trying to be the Apple to Shimanos Microsoft but the Sram kit (except chain for some reason) is rubbish
DT rims – made of cheese
Rocky Mountain – at least you get a new bike every year until the warranty runs out
Cannodale – the betamax of bikes. May be great but try fixing it if your local shop isn't a fully spammed out Cannondale specialist. No one else wants to touch or holds spares for them.
Trek – The Microsoft of the bike trade. Even wants to sell a EPOS (till and stock stystem) into their dealers that gives Trek a full sales history of the shop including their competitors products!!! And the bikes are Ford Escorts. As for the George W thing….
Black Spoked Specialised wheels – the urban myth was true! May be the alloy nipples, DT rims and crap wheel building robot was a bad mix.
New Marzocchi seems pretty poor after the old Marzocchi forks that only wore in – never out!!

TBH the biggest brand(s) I'd think twice (or 76 times) about are the Reebok / Apollo / etc sportshop brands selling you bit of metal with two wheels pretending to be quality bikes. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to tell people that the £80 bike they've given to little Johnny is gonna cost at least that to make safe and rideable after a few month use by the average kid.

I wouldn't touch Thomson/King on aesthetic grounds: dulldulldulldull – on every second bike i see on here.

Agreed, but more because it's so inevitable.

Give me Truvativ and FSA anyday, and I'll spend the money on something more important.

threads like this really **** me off

surely there are better things to do than instigate a massive rant about who hates what?

bed time

Just helping you not to buy shit buy twice…

Well, Orange made a good start but trailed off at the halfway stage.

Thank goodness. I really like my 5 and can't find anything wrong with it, including the way it looks.

Agree about Crank Bros pedals, though.

Why has nobody mentioned Magura? Piss poor service in my opinion.
Truvativ – sh1tfting and for inventing a standard that was 0.2mm different that hollowtech 2. Genius!
DMR – heavy, ugly, tedious to fit components.

i really like this thread, compounds the british nature 😆

for me.
maverick duc forks. Do i need to explain.
SRAM rear mechs- made of cheese and break too often.
Intense- flexi back end.

On balance I think I’d give most things a bit of thought, I used to turn my nose up at Carreras and Boardmans but since get a Carrera under cycle to work I’ve changed my mind, the VFM is fantastic and the Boardmans look even better VFM, it’s really just the outlet, but hopefully you only have to deal with them just the once, same goes for Kona, I’m quite keen on finding an older Kona HT frame and P2s at the minute, I’ve had a Stab which I got on with better than my DH9 granted they are pretty pricey these days but who isn’t…

I still have to question most of the “too cheap to be true” deals you see especially on Carbon parts there are some corners that just shouldn’t be cut, and like many SSCs magic de-laminating brake pads taught me a useful lesson, (although I do keep half considering his cheap Cobra Uppy/Downy seat posts, just as a trial sort of thing)…

I will never buy CK Hubs or headsets as I can’t see the value personally, similarly I’m not keen on hope brakes, why pay almost twice as much as Shimano for something with leaky seals? I have to say though I am very happy with the Hope BB I bought a few months back, and the now ancient Bulb I have on my DH bike, their Hubs work a treat…

Having said all of that, I am always willing for a company to try and change my mind, and I’m sure many will in the future…

Your own irrational prejudices are pretty obvious.

Lol, that is funny. What "irrational prejudices" have I made pretty obvious? Yes, I'll give you Cannondale, but that isn't that irrational as I have known people who owned them and have had no end of problems.

The companies I listed in my response to Nonsense where ones that have been put forward by other people.

Poor old Crank-Bros but have to agree their relibility is pretty poor having had an ISIS BB last less than 6 months and a CB pump that was crap from day one…However to CBs credit they have 2Pure as the distributor in the UK and they were excellent with warranty. To such an extent I've risked getting a CB headset (Very low stack height which I was after): we'll see if it lasts the winter 😉

Shimano slx , hone and xt cranks by the look of it;

cracks, see here.

and more cracks here.

😕

crank brothers – apparantly the pumps are good

Who told you that? Mr Crank or his brother no doubt

The pumps are worse than the pedals!

What is this SSC brand? 😐

More than the rest though THEY KILLED KLEIN!!! ,THE BAS****S!!!

That's not actually true (at least according to a friend of mine who works for Trek). Klein were gonners when Trek bought the brand. They kept the brand alive in fact for as long as was possible.

not exactly bike related but Berghaus refused to repair or replace shoulder strap on a mountaineering pack that had failed carrying rock and bivvy gear into a route in the Pico's – the pack was less than a year old and the strap ripped out meaning had to make do and mend with a sling to finish the walk in, not exactly comfy
Berghaus said the sac had "been abused" NO it had been used for what it was intended for but couldn't handle – never bought a Berghaus item since

Anything from Ibis.

I will never buy;
Avid brakes; total total shyte, pain to bleed plasticky feel (love my Hopes though).
SRAM; PITA to set up and shifts when it feels like it. I think this is personal preference though.
Trek; trying to eliminate online sales (and savings for us).
A bike with specialized in house shocks (how many replacements?)

I will never buy from;
SSC; the blokes a nobend.
Dave Hinde; see above.

I will happily buy;
Anything from Hope, CS and fully servicable.
Turner; warranty is excellent (follows bike)
Intense; Pure quality
Camelbak, Oakley

Ian Munro, What was your issue with Ibis?
backhander, good point about Dave Hinde, I'd blocked him out from my memory. Though not in the same poor-service-hemisphere as Hinde, I'm not too keen on Poshbikes either.

Ian Munro, What was your issue with Ibis?

Pikey's bike of choice 🙂
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/not-another-nicked-ibis-mojo

Thorn bikes, terrible handling overpriced tat, with unfriendly unhelpful staff selling them who aren't interested when you're having problems with them. Bought a thorn raven to do a 3500mile tour on, and promptly sold it instead using my roadrat

hope brakes … break.

faultless items which I will buy again include shimano hubs, shimano disc brakes sun rims and shimano spds

Swiss DT.
For their DWS thru axle/quick release. Not so much their product but when I stripped the spline from the plastic lever (a part that could be changed in 60 seconds flat) I was told by their importers that you couldn't buy a spare leaver, you had to buy a whole new axle at 50 quid and there weren't any in stock. Given that I had an acle that was perfectly good it seems a rather wasteful approach to me!
So I write to Swiss DT with a few queries as to why this is the case and they can't even be bothered to reply.
Had they sold be a new lever at a tenner I wouldn't be writing this!
Macgyver

Very intersting this thread.

I`d also add – any mtb mags.
You get a far better and unbiased opinion from mtb sites like this.

So, according to this thread, I ride a right wing bike (Cannondale) with a drivetrain that 'doesnt feel right' (Sram), 'plasticky' brakes (Avid) and pedals that are about to either seize up or explode in some way (Crank bros). Plus I am 'too old' to wear Fox gear, so I'd better get rid of my flux helmet. Not doing too well here am I?