Mine have got holes in the bottom. I’ve had them for five years. I guess that’s ok? Are there any out there that are harder wearing? Caradice maybe?

Yep

Depends what you want. Hard wearing and waterproof? Yes. Readily accessible on the go? No

Accessibility is fine, I’m looking for harder wearing..

I like Carradice better

Why are they better?

Personal opinion but I like the fact they are not airtight and so can breath but are still waterproof . They are very hard wearing and easy to repair if needed and carradice will repair if needed too.each item is hand signed by the maker, They are easy to get stuff out of and look great 🙂 which is all that matters lol

Definitely! Thanks for the info 🙂

What are they like off the bike? When you are carrying them on your shoulder?

Tbh I’ve not carried them about much they have handles and come with a strap iirc I just face them back to back and use the handles.easy enough

my Crosso panniers are just as good as my old ortliebs. and cost half the price.

been using em for the last 4 years without a single problem.

http://www.cyclesense.co.uk/m60b0s74p13926/CROSSO-Dry-60L-(Pair)-Rear

Crossos deffinatley a good budget option but the metal hooks seem like a lot more faff for regular on-off like commuting. They dont seem as tough under extreme use either as they dont have plastic bumpers on the corners.
review

I bought my ortliebs about 8 years ago and they get daily use with regular overloading for the weekly shop. Only issue I had was damage to a buckle but it was easily replaced, that was only because I carried a full motorbike exhaust vertically with no extra straps. It was sticking out well above my head height and tore half way through the fabric holding the buckle on by the time I got it the 5 miles home, easily replaced the strap after undoing 3 screws, only a few £ for a replacement. That’s a major plus for ortliebs too, if you do ever break anything, spares can be got within days.

Carradice now make panniers from recycled lorry tarps: http://upsobags.co.uk/bags

I wish I’d known that before I ordered replacement Ortliebs – the new ones don’t seem as good quality as my old set.

I noticed on a colleagues ortlieb sport/back-roller the lower rail is only a single curved rail, my older ones are an oval with a track on the upper and lower half, which gives a bit more options when setting up the lower clip. They do now come with QL2.1 top hooks though, which are adjustable without tools like my older QL1 versions.

Vaude are very similar to Ortlieb and at least as good quality.