Hi All,

Just got a wheel made by my lbs, I specified DT swiss double butted spokes but when I picked up the wheel a couple of days ago the spokes look like plain gauge (ie not thinner in the middle)

I know that its only 0.2 of a mm but can’t you usually see or feel where it goes from thick to thin on the spoke?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Yes you can see/feel it. It’s usually quite an abrupt change over about 10mm or so.

If not get some verniers and measure it.

What he said ^

I’ve had some pretty subtle ones but you can always feel the transition

Fingers are your friends.

thisisnotaspoon – Member
Yes you can see/feel it. It’s usually quite an abrupt change over about 10mm or so.

If not get some verniers and measure it.

Wot he said but DT are harder to see than Sapim

Okay thanks everyone, seems like they are probably plain gauge but I’ll get some vernier calipers out this evening.

Don’t think the bike shop are going to be happy when I tell them to unlace and rebuild my wheels though!

Don’t think the bike shop are going to be happy when I tell them to unlace and rebuild my wheels though!

If you can’t trust them to do what you’ve specifically asked them to do why would you trust them to rebuild the wheels? Personally, I’d be asking for my money back and going elsewhere.

Unless they’re a set of uber light weight racing wheels, or it really bothers you, I’d just ask for some money back.
Weight difference will be about 30g per wheel, and the strength difference is negligible.

Maybe I will just try to get money back but I can’t seem to find anyone else near me that will build them up, one guy wanted £107 plus VAT per wheel 😯

It’s tricky situation though because I already had the rims and hubs so just took them in to be built with spokes provided by the LBS, if I’m going to ask for my money back I guess I should unlace them and give the spokes back?

Does it say double butted on your receipt?

If not your word vs theirs.

It says DT Competition – I think they are all double butted?

https://www.dtswiss.com/en/products/spokes-nipples/spokes/dt-competition/

You can even see that they are butted in that pic.

I had similar a few years back. To me it was a blatant let’s hope he doesn’t notice.

Plain gauge tend to be quite a bit cheaper

Yes you could accept discount, but IMO it will always play on your mind that your riding around on ‘heavy’ wheels even though the difference is negligible

Since the rest of the bike has been built exactly how I want it I don’t think I will settle for a discount, they even charged me for the DB spokes.

The weight difference is negligible but from what I have read DB will build a slightly stronger wheel and more to the point I asked specifically for them.

I’ll see what they say when I pop in later.

I can never see the difference but I can normally feel it with my finger and thumb- it’s pretty subtle, more like an extra amount of resistance than a perceptible change in diameter or a tangible ‘shoulder’ as you run your pinched finger and thumb along the spoke’s length

Should be easy to tell. From that DT Competition link

“This is one of the most versatile spokes in the DT Swiss spoke range. DT competition® gets its special strength from cold forging. This makes it not only extremely durable but thanks to the thinner middle section, it is 48 g lighter than a spoke with a constant diameter of 1.8 mm. The balanced relation between strength and weight of its 2.0 mm counterpart allows for a wide range of uses,from road wheels to super light enduro MTB wheels”

If the spoke is 48g lighter than it’s unbutted counterpart, over a 32 spoke wheel that’s 1.5kg – and that’s just the difference, not the total weight of the spokes let alone rim and hub. If you can’t physically pick your wheels up, they’re plain gauge
(yes, I’m sure it’s a typo)

I think they quote weights per 32 spokes 😉

It might be per wheelset so 48/64 spokes or ~0.75g (avg) per spoke…

Either way it’s really not much TBH…

Edit: fag packet maths suggested 1.5g/spoke… So yep 48g saving per 32 DB spokes (avg).

Butting spokes changes how they respond to stress – the thinner section is more ‘elastic’ and therefore the wheel can be tensioned higher without over-loading the head or thread root where they typically fail. Consequently, a wheel built with plain spokes can also feel a bit ‘dead’, so it’s not just the weight. You can feel the butting if you pinch the spoke and slide along it’s length – less visually obvious

Weight difference isn’t a huge amount, db spokes do build a better wheel, though not necessarily stronger depending on your definition of strength and what you want. DT Comp spokes are very obviously butted if you run your fingers down them.

The weight difference is negligible but from what I have read DB will build a slightly stronger wheel and more to the point I asked specifically for them.

Not necessarily stronger, as plain spokes will build into a stiffer wheel, but a DB spoked wheel will probably more compliant.
Though a pro-rider might notice, I suspect that most of us mere mortals would struggle to in a blind test.

I’ve got some heavy duty wheels built with straight spokes, and I’m yet to kill them.

Back to the original point though – ask them to rebuild them. If they charged you for DB then it’s either a cock up or a blag.