If one was to work out the percentage failure rate of Cotic frames, would it be greater or less than the figures for Commencals?

? are they?

Which ones do you mean? only heard of a few Hemlocks down to a known fault.

I know two people who have broken soul frames, both loved them up till this and one still happily rides his replacement.

Not that you have an agenda,but you do seem to be full of little whispers about friends who tested and broke the Soda,etc.Apart from the by now well documented problems with the Hemlock, how many failures have you ACTUALLY seen? I am 16.5 stone and never had any problems with either my Soda, or the four Souls I have owned. Maybe I am just lucky eh?

Duckman do you mean i have an agenda or the op, i personally know two people (one posts regularly on here) who have broken soul frames and other than this post i have never posted about them before!

why have you owned 4 Souls? don't you trust the longterm strength/durability? 😛

I wouldn't either (knowing just how carefully the rider Gamo's talking about rides)

I am 16.5 stone and never had any problems with either my Soda, or the four Souls I have owned. Maybe I am just lucky eh?

Am i the only one that chuckled at that. Come on man, one of them frames should last you a lifetime, or at least since they were built to now. Why the heck do you need 5 versions? Thats not a testament to their reliability as you havent actually ridden one for more than possibly a couple of years 🙂

Not commenting on their reliability cos i have seen them in action and look as reliable as the next steel frame. I have seen a soda snapped though.

I broke my roadrat fork twice. its been redisgned now though.

I know of one Soda that snapped, (right across the down-tube IIRC)

Is it me or anyone fail to grasp the sarcasm of the OP?

I've put about 5k miles on my soul and its barely even creaked. This has included a couple of crashes where I was convinced I must have broken it as I headed for the ground, the last one snapped the stem clean in half. Since then I've done the transportugal on the bike and it was perfect.

Bikes sometimes break. It is one of the few occasions when you can buy a new one without wondering whether it is "justified". It does seem to be very hard to get any real feel for whether any particular brand has higher failure rates than others. 🙂

I have owned four because I keep selling them and then coming back to them.

If one was to work out the percentage failure rate of Cotic frames, would it be greater or less than the figures for Commencals?

Well that depends on how many failed and how many are sold. We don't know the numbers so it could be greater or less. If you really want to get an idea then start a thread asking Cotic/Commencal owners to reply with whether their frames have failed or not. Anything else is pure conjecture.

That's assuming you do want to know, and this isn't a troll. 😉

If one was to work out the percentage failure rate of Cotic frames, would it be greater or less than the figures for Commencals?

Intense would be an interesting one too…

as would santa cruz ❗
have Orange got any better ❓
then there is rocky mountain etsx ❗
nearly forgot cove:roll:
saw a head tube separated from a Spec ht at a race once

I know mates who have broken products from all of the above.

used and abused my old Bonty for 16yrs.

Quite fancy one of these new fangled lt ht`s but as someone with little spare cash worry about the lifespan

I have owned four because I keep selling them and then coming back to them.

How very odd.

I've ridden with one person who had a cotic Ti and it cracked on that ride. My commencal hasn't. Using the maths prevalent on STW, this means that all cotics break and no commencals break. 😀

Intense are tough and well built…..I need bikes that can handle my weight (16 stone), daily DH abuse in the mountains and deal with foul Scottish weather.

I ride plenty of bikes (SC,Orange,Cove, Evil etc)…Intense tend to be the most reliable and best handling..plus they look great! 🙂

Orange im my experience is the most common brand to experience 'cracknfail'!

So far I've only owned three bikes that haven't broken: a Yeti ASX that I sold after a couple of years, an inbred that I sold after 10 weeks and my current orange five that's only been ridden twice…

Giant Hurricane : snapped chainstay
Marin Bolinas : cracked headtube
Trek 850 : snapped chainstay
Orange X1 : 1 cracked front end, 3 snapped back ends
Orange Mr O : Cracked swingarm
Orange Sub5 : Cracked pivot mount
On-One Tinbred : Cracked seat tube/top tube

If anyone would like to use me for destruction testing their frames, get in touch… 😀

I haven't cracked any bike, i can't be riding them right!

I haven't cracked any bike, i can't be riding them right!

You're just not trying hard enough! 😀

I dont like small UK bike companies being named and attacked online. Sorry. Im not a Cotic fan but I dont mean them ill. All bike companies have component failures. Its the nature of riding- until CERN of course.

So Hora… you don't like small bike companies being attacked compared to the 'big players', but you'll launch into a tirade about how small LBSs are out to arse rape you for every penny and they should all apply CRCs business motto?

reckon % fails will be about the same small vs large manufacturer

consider other consumer goods failure rates? My George Foreman has just dropped a support leg.how many other failures has there been?

oh, the irony Optical! 😆

I've had 2 Cannondales that cracked around the chainstay bridge (both warrantied) and I've got a Mk1 Soul that I found a couple of cracks in. One was by the chainstay drain hole, by the drop-out and the other was in the chainsuck zone. My local garage welded them for free (not pretty, but effective) and I'm still riding it 8 months later.

Fm, its a troll-fest.

Trekster – I've had 2 rocky mountain etsx, the first one (2004) lasted 2 & a half years before the seat tube snapped between the suspension pivots, the warranty replacement (2006) lasted 3 & a half years before the seat tube snapped below where the design had been stengthened. Fantastic bikes when they were in one piece.

Have to say I was impressed with the warranty support, and the fact that even though I was out of the 5 year warranty for the original purchase they did me an Element frame for 50% off (I was offered an etsx front triangle for free). Doing the math I spent £2200 over 5.5 yrs and had £4500 worth of bikes / frames, not a great business model but I'm not complaining. The element is fantastic so far 🙂

I haven't cracked any bike, i can't be riding them right!

Yeap same here… And I try my 7 year old rocky is still abuse and riding with massive amount of seatpost out but I fail to crack the frame…

What scares me is what if I actually could ride – as in core, properly. Or even normally. Ive had over 5 forks fail on me and one frame.

i bought a Hemlock back in March, i snapped the main pivots off after 4 months (no jumps, no drops, holding back, definitely taking it easy)

i now have a waranty replacement – the new 'improved' 2010 chainstays.

The chainstays are now twice the size as before, but the bit that broke isn't really any bigger.

it doesn't bother me that i broke the old chainstays, Cotic are a small company, i understand that there will be some degree of 'customer driven product refinement'…

i AM annoyed that the new design hasn't really adressed the problem.

(not nearly enough metal at the point that broke)

it does handle amazingly tho' – so i'm not about to get rid of it, watch this space…

sorry Cy – i love my Hemlock, it makes me sad that i can't give it the thrashing it's so clearly gagging for. X

(a friend of mine rides a soul, for all practical purposes it's almost indestructible)

I have not had a frame break for ages (que frame breaking on next ride) but I have found that having three bikes, and only ever using them for what they are designed for helps a lot. Mind you I do seem to have managed to end up with slightly misaligned swingarms on my orange 5 and patriot 66, is it because I can only tweak / hip jumps in one direction?

I've been riding my Hemlock for 6 months and its been ridden pretty hard with a few crashes with no probs. I love it and the way it rides.

ahwiles – Is it worth getting the new chainstays especially as you say the pivot metal bits are the same?

they're not the same, but they are still very small.

(there's only one pinch bolt now, it's a simpler design and it's on the non-drive side, so checking it's tight shouldn't be a problem)

as you say, you love the way it rides, do YOU think £175 is worth spending on stiffer chainstays?

i'm 'lucky' i got mine for free, but i can't say there was ever a stiffness problem with the old chainstays.

right up untill the point when it broke, it was the best bike i've ever ridden.

it climbs well, descends even better.

I'm the same the current chainstay feels stiff enough to me, however will probably get the new chainstay anyway for peace of mind.

I agree its the best bike I've ridden so far, better then the Orange 5 I had before. 🙂

Shame the new ones don't come in white which I thought was the best colour.

Are cotic suggesting that you spent £175 on upgrading a part which is known to be faulty?

Simonb – In what way do you find the Hemlock better than a 5? Interested as I'm thinking of changing my 5 frame but can't think of what to get. How does it compare?

it's not known to be faulty! there was an assembly issue which lead to (a) known failure. there isn't a known fault with the chainstays in general.

cp – i broke my chainstay 'eyes' off even tho' the washers were in there and the bolts were tight…