I know I’ve said it already, but the chain wrap puts me off the whole thing. And it would even if it otherwise looked shit hot. Anyone who’s got as far as this without thinking that the chainwrap isn’t acceptable doesn’t fill me with reassurance that the rest of the design has been approached in the right way, or even by someone who rides bikes a lot.

the seat-tube on the biggest frame is only 460mm long, which is just about big enough to fit this guy:

apart from being too small for a human me, i like it. i hope they sell a boat load.

Im sure its ever so wonderful. To me the chain doesn’t look like its on the chain ring for long enough. I cant help thinking as the chain/chainring wears, it will slip like ****.

Still, I think we should all be grateful that F1 genius is now helping us finance ever more expensive frames. I feel quite privileged, hopefully Lewis Hamilton will do a photo shoot of him standing next to one in Lycra for us to admire

😆

It’s a bit ‘GQ’, isn’t it?

It does use ‘Enduro Bearings’ throughout though

Dirt did a write up on it as well BTW, I think the gist was that it rides pretty nice but has its flaws and off-the-peg bikes are just as good.

It looks so much better in the photos in the Dirt review:

ARBR Saker Tested

It looks so much better in the photos in the Dirt review:

does it ? looks bent in this one 🙂

Dunno if it’d be a problem in reality, but those large flat-sided bits of carbon and square edges seem like they might be vulnerable to rock damage?

Its not the worst looking…

But I cant get past the lack of chain wrap on the front ring. Its destined to skip off.

I reckon this is destined for an Aston Martin logo. I can just imagine this sat in a Mayfair Aston dealership & being bought along with a new car, just the job for Wimbledon Common.

‘Built to order in low numbers’. No shit Sherlock, the Venn diagram of blind mtb riders with that much expendable income must be fairly limited.

If brexit was a bike

It wouldn’t be black…..

£4400 though! and people moan at Orange…

Very much going for the MX look there I think.

I really like the rear swingarm design but it needs a simpler, front end. A few cut-outs here and there and I think it would be a decent looking bike.

There was a make of bike (a German brand I think) quite a few years ago which had an idler wheel on the swingarm like that. Or so I recall, I saw it at an uplift session at Cwmcarn.

The Commencal Supreme DH has an idler and looks far better than this.

There was a make of bike (a German brand I think) quite a few years ago which had an idler wheel on the swingarm like that. Or so I recall, I saw it at an uplift session at Cwmcarn.

K9ine?

[/url]K9ine by [/url], on Flickr[/img]

greyspoke – Member
There was a make of bike (a German brand I think) quite a few years ago which had an idler wheel on the swingarm like that. Or so I recall, I saw it at an uplift session at Cwmcarn.

Ghost.
It was awful.
Canfield did one as well.
Similarly horrid.

Like the rear end design but looks stupid with the shock just diagonally across the middle and the fact it looks like a sheet of carbon with some holes and shapes cut into it…

I don’t think it was any of them, in fact I think it was being ridden by a young Katy Curd.

Anyhow, I just noticed this on hteir website:

A rearward rear axle path to absorb impacts from rough terrain and increase ability to carry speed.
100% Anti squat characteristic for pedal efficiency.
Removal of chain tension feedback and interference.
A progressive rear shock rate, to maximise grip and maintain composure through big hits and drops.
Stable geometry and balanced weight distribution.

First point is a potentially good one, and of course to reduce pedalling feedback because of the high pivot point you need the idler wheel (or a two-stage drive a la Nicolai, BMW etc.)

Second point bullshit just like other manufacturers spout.

Same goes for the third point for the same reason.

The rest just traditional things bike manufacturers try to get right.

Disappointing that they have resorted to this nonsense

greyspoke – Member
I don’t think it was any of them, in fact I think it was being ridden by a young Katy Curd.

2 Stage? Kiwi not German though.

That thing is a real eye bleach moment.

Then £4400 was the icing on the cake. At least the similary price stuff like the Unno & Robot bikes don’t manage to look disgusting before raping you financially.

I quite like it. It’s already a grower and the bb is the only weak choice. Boost etc is neither here nor there as i already have that standard. Dirt definitely seem to rate it. I’d love to ride one flat out, well my flat out !

Second point bullshit just like other manufacturers spout.

Same goes for the third point for the same reason.

Go on. i’m interested why you say this is bullshit?

As with any design it’s pros and cons; personally i like a bike with high antisquat but appreciate others don’t.

I know a bit less about the chain issue: i’ve never ridden a bike with an idler, canyons decoupler or Chris porters toothless cog thing. But the fact that Chris Porter is looking into it and Canyon are selling a bike with it must mean 2 people believe in it…

I like it. I would never buy one (it’s worth more than my car), but I like it.

Reminds me of a Kirk Revolution for some reason.

thomthumb – Member
Chris porters toothless cog thing

Tell me more?

Go on. i’m interested why you say this is bullshit?

As with any design it’s pros and cons; personally i like a bike with high antisquat but appreciate others don’t.
If they had said “relatively high level of built-in anti-squat” that would have been honest (though looking at it, I would say it had a relatively low level). But the 100% bit implies “no squat ever” (100% of what exactly?). That is only possible in one particular gear, assuming you pedal with turbine-like smoothness. And the “Removal of chain tension feedback and interference” directly contradicts this. You achieve anti-squat by building in a controlled amount of chain tension feedback (though the amount of that will depend on what gear you are in). Zero chain tension feedback, zero anti-squat.

Anyhow, I don’t think it is too ugly and I think the high pivot point idea, if they have got the drivetrain sorted appropriately to it (which they appear to have done) ought to translate into perceptible improvements, and the Dirt review appears to support this.

doesnt matter found it

I am finding it hard not to feel a bit sorry for them, but there are a lot of reasons the frame has been bashed on pretty much every channel online. First of all you have price and then the polarising looks but I get a bit put out by another aspect and that is the unknown nature of the company and people behind it – the lack of proof.

I get a litte annoyed when mr ‘I am ex F1 so know more than anybody!’ kind of people get involved or voice their opinion in the MTB world – They state their involvement in F1 like that gives them the automatic ability to create the best product possible and that all of us should listen & bow down to their superiority – Now I am not going to argue that F1 is at the cutting edge of some forms of engineering but it is not cycling (which often is closer to farmyard machinery!)

I think it is very bold for a new company to launch a very unique looking (suspension, pivot location and idler all done many times before) frame at such an huge price point with marketing being that ‘I am in F1 so its awesome’

The fact of the matter is, your engineering background does not always apply to other fields and sometimes your individual skills may work in one industry but not transfer to another.

The guy in F1 that used to come on this forum was always very vocal about his F1 experience but very little of that could be transferred into the cycling world.

This is such a stark contrast to Unno – A mechanical engineer with many years experience racing bikes and his own industrial design house. Their product looks stunning and early reports say they ride just as well too.

Bikes are not F1 cars, look at the Starling Cycles, all reports say a steel, single pivot, made in a shed bike is pretty much top tier.

Bikes are not F1 cars, look at the Starling Cycles, all reports say a steel, single pivot, made in a shed bike is pretty much top tier.

Yeah. He’s an aerospace engineer. Stupid F1 people.

You achieve anti-squat by building in a controlled amount of chain tension feedback (though the amount of that will depend on what gear you are in). Zero chain tension feedback, zero anti-squat.

What about tyre thrust forces?

That’s the point Brant – I have no idea of the guys credentials, just that the bike works as well as any, background should be used to provide confidence / validity to design not be a main selling point.

Aerospace meets Workshop.

Building simple bikes is a complex business.

Starlings are built to be beautifully simple, drawing on Joe’s 20 years of aerospace engineering experience.

Well I stand corrected! But it is a more ‘low key’ mention with the emphasis on them being ‘beautifully simple’ while the Arbr is claiming to be anything but, no attempt to bring aerospace to the bike industy, just engineering experience.

Bikes are not F1 cars, look at the Starling Cycles, all reports say a steel, single pivot, made in a shed bike is pretty much top tier.

Yeah. He’s an aerospace engineer. Stupid F1 people.

You achieve anti-squat by building in a controlled amount of chain tension feedback (though the amount of that will depend on what gear you are in). Zero chain tension feedback, zero anti-squat.

What about tyre thrust forces?

Anything particular about them you had in mind? The thing you can alter by design choices is the way chain tension affects suspension. Tyre thrust is a result of chain tension and rear cog size, and its direction is determined by the terrain and whether you are doing a wheelie or not. Plus, as a component of the forces transmitted through the axle to the suspension, chain tension is dominant because rear cogs are so much smaller in diameter than wheels (notwithstanding they now approach dinner-plate size).

Dissenting voice here – I quite like it. Not that I’ll be buying one. The frame alone costs as much as my complete Starling will when it’s done. (Hurry up Joe) and I doubt I’d trade that for one.

Then again it’s not aimed at me, it’s definitely one for the millionaire MTBer with a desire for something no-one else has.

engineered for performance by a team with over 25 years of combined experience in Formula 1

Mmm, I can see a theme for a bike collection here.

Add one of these to a collection of car bikes eg Mercedes, BMW, Kawasaki etc, all mint and unused of course.

Wonder why we don’t see them on the trails? 🙂

BTW at first glance I thought it was a revival of the Y2K EPX.