It’ll have more margin for sure (although less than you’d imagine).
But margin doesn’t = profit. By the time all the stores costs have come out, it might well be down to £100.

Why not offer – £50 puncture repair kit, saddle bag, mini pump, patches, levers, 2 tubes and someone to show you how to swap a tube.

you can sell this with every bike, or people walking in off the street.
Do you honestly reckon there’d be many takers for this?

CRC etc are a help not a cause. If a shop says they price match I’ll use them as it means I can afford cycling kit.

I need a new helmet- CRCs offer on TLD A1 means I can get a new helmet, but also a helmet that is decent quality and will last. Nowt wrong with that!Can’t really criticise you for this as I’ve also bought a Troy Lee lid (full face) from CRC at a massive discount. Mine still had the price tag (in dollars) from a US motorbike store stuck on the inside though so I’m pretty sure they have just bought up a huge job lot of old stock, most likely for pennies.

I seriously doubt any LBS has the purchasing power to match CRC so you can’t really expect them to match bargains like this though.

Sorry – share the love. Pay abit better.

And fit inner tubes free too! It’s the way forward, I tell thee!

In all seriousness Al, I’ve worked in retail in various guises and you have my sympathy. Some of the mis-informed crap out there is unbelievable.

I had one ‘gent’ quote retail law at me regarding refunds because, apparently, his sister was a lawyer and had told him. I replied telling him that she wasn’t a very good lawyer as I too knew retail law, and she was completely wrong.

hora – Member

I need a new helmet- CRCs offer on TLD A1 means I can get a new helmet, but also a helmet that is decent quality and will last. Nowt wrong with that!

Yup- and you seem happy with the downsides, ie not getting to see it or try it before it arrives, risk of postal delays or loss, no immediate shop backup etc. So that’s cool, that’s the flipside.

Unless of course you tried one on in a shop, in which case you’re a ****.

Next you’ll be telling me a 3k RRP has a £100 margin.

It’ll have more margin for sure (although less than you’d imagine).
But margin doesn’t = profit. By the time all the stores costs have come out, it might well be down to £100.

On top of this, how many shops can afford to have a £3k bike as regular stock? It’s a lot of outlay for something that’s quite specific re. sizing and spec. In a smaller shop there’s also a good chance it’d need to be discounted to sell unless it’s been ordered in, as the customer base hunting for that particular product in the shop’s area will be very slim.

Ultimately that means the shop will have bought the bike in at top top trade price, because it won’t have got any sort of quantity deal, and sold at rock-bottom retail, substantially eating into any sort of profit.

The profit/margin stuff reminds me of the property renovation shows that were on during the housing boom.
Couple would buy a house spend every spare hour renovating it and then sell it for a great profit. Except once you added in their costs and materials it was bugger all and equated to an hourly rate in pence and they would have made more by leaving it for 6 months and selling it again.

Northwind there are downsides but Im in no rush. Sale bin shopping allows me to afford bikes when nursery fees are £700+ a month.

Sale bin shopping is fine but itll never get shop workers paid more – in fact less, if their jobs survive.

it’s a lost cause Al, you know the STW collective bike shop and importers would pay their staff really well, sell kit at trade or less (or just what ever someone wants to pay), stock 3 of everything in every size, ship their imports in secret to avoid import duty and have no mechanics but entire racks of tools that the masses could just use then a magic fairy to fix all their mistakes.

The closing down sale would be a good event

If you only make £100 on a 3k bike and are underpaid then is this a sensible job/ business model? What sets a LBS apart from CRC? Most LBS’s haven’t worked this out and do the same old thing expecting improved results. Customer service and advice has to come in somewhere so as with much of retail you have to do a little work for free in the short term for longer term gains. It is quite telling that everyone in a LBS here has said they don’t do anything for free. It is kind of required short term for a bricks and mortar shop. If there is really no money in a LBS and you do it for the love then embrace anyone cycling and spread the love 😀 …. but the guy in the OP did sound like a nobber so was probably not the person to invest your time and passion in 😀

as with much of retail you have to do a little work for free in the short term for longer term gains

Really? What other retail businesses do work for free in the hope of further business later? If anything it’s the opposite – the secondhand bookshop I frequent now gives me a small (un-asked-for) discount because I’ve spent so much there.

What other retail businesses do work for free in the hope of further business later?

drug dealers?

Lots of retail outlets use some kind of loss leader model to generate income later. Halfords for example can sell components under trade price from time to time to get customers looking their way for stuff in future which is perhaps at more “normal” prices but a LBS might have to offer services for the same effect where it is more economical than doing so in goods…. Not saying you have to work for free all the time but if part of what sets a LBS apart from CRC is a friendly face and excellent customer service then a bit of extra help surely goes a long way. Otherwise what does your LBS offer that you can’t get at CRC? A LBS can’t compete on price so it must compete in other areas.

It sounds like the customer in the OP had a poor way of going about it but if someone came in and bought a tube and asked nicely for some help to learn how to change it would you all still say “I don’t work for free” rather than come up with a compromise towards helping out?

Been watching this thread with interest……
As someone who’s spent, well, all my life really, learning to do mechanical stuff before getting a job as an LBS mechanic last year I think I can see both sides. I understand why customers think it should be free to fit a tube. It’s usually a peice of piss, isn’t it?
It honestly took me 4-5 months before I was comfortable with charging LBS labour rates without feeling embarrassed.
But I GET why people need me to fix their bikes. I understand that some people are not mechanically minded, that they don’t have the time or the space or for whatever reason they want me to fix their bike.
I’ve invested a lot of my own time, and money, to get to where I am now. I don’t do substandard work. I don’t do unnecessary work. I do what i would do on my own bikes, or I don’t do it at all.
And that’s what my customers are paying for, (alongside the convenience of not doing it themselves and not having to buy all the tools etc), and I have no problem at all with charging them the going rate for it.

And I think you’ve got to work on this side of the fence before you fully understand, or, if possible, go through the same transition I did. It’s an eye opener, I can assure you. I’ve fixed stuff you wouldn’t believe the state of….
🙂

Otherwise what does your LBS offer that you can’t get at CRC? A LBS can’t compete on price so it must compete in other areas.

Well, one of the things the LBS offers over CRC is the capacity to fit your tubes for you. But if they can’t charge for stuff like that then what have they got?

I know I’m paraphrasing a bit, but if an LBS can’t compete on price with CRC etc. and so can’t rely on people buying stuff (at least not at enough margin to be worth it) then it needs to rely on other services. But if the model for charging for these services is heavily skewed towards showing goodwill and helping people out in the hope they might feel like paying for something sometime in the future (which is the impression you get from this thread) then where does that leave the LBS?

If we fitted tubes for free I’d never get any other jobs done. And seeing as I seem to get further behind each day as it is and can’t find the time to ride my own bike, I’m happy to keep charging for fitting tubes.

We do a fair few free jobs for people but not for those who expect things for free

I do a few days a week spannering at a small but very busy bike shop. The workshop is rammed and we can hardly keep up. Whilst the actual job of swapping a tube takes 3 or 4 mins, by the time you’ve spoken to a customer about why they got a puncture, why their tubes have funny twiddly bits on them, booked the bike in, got it into the workshop, put a tube in, faffed with the inevetiably crappy brakes/gears/wheel bearings,lubed the chain, called the customer, had another chat with them about what caused the puncture, taken payment etc, you’re getting on for 20 minutes at least.

For the last three days I’ve done 6 tubes each day. Anyone who thinks that an appropriate model for a small business to adopt is to do 2 hours of free work a day is bonkers. Anyone who thinks that fitting tubes for free will cause customers to buy more stuff is also bonkers, as orangeboy says, it just means we’d be fitting tubes for free all day long.

If a customer is genuinely interested we’ll get them into the workshop and show them how it’s done. We’re always friendly and chatty, after all we are bike enthusiasts, and we bend over backwards to help customers out when we can. I often feel the boss under charges for work we do, especially given how hard I feel I work!

The closing down sale would be a good event

So true. 😆

It honestly took me 4-5 months before I was comfortable with charging LBS labour rates without feeling embarrassed.

I was shown how to service my 205 GTi when I had it. 30 minutes work, plus consumables. But I still paid a mechanic to do it at £50 an hour, or whatever they charge. It was cleaner, less hassle and it meant I could go to work and get paid.

Unfortunately you need to charge to make a living. You have skills that others do not – nothing embarrassing about charging for you using them to benefit others.

Anyone who thinks that fitting tubes for free will cause customers to buy more stuff is also bonkers, as orangeboy says, it just means we’d be fitting tubes for free all day long

There’s a thing called Dr Bike. May well still exist, the idea is for one day a bike shop will do free simple repairs for anyone who asks, it’s often done at events and the like. It’s sold to the bike shop as a good way to get lots of new customers.

When I was young and foolish I did it a few times. And what happened is lots of people who I’d never seen before would turn up with the most horrible, wrecked, rusty bicycle-shaped objects and demand I fix everything that was wrong with them. Then, once I’d done my best, they’d leave and I’d never see them again.

The problem is if you don’t charge for something, people think it’s valueless. If you don’t charge for your time, people think your time is of little value.

“The closing down sale would be a good event”

I believe it was, desperate for some cash flow at the end. infact still see some of the stuff from the shop that stw advised on here in the classifieds occasionally.

There’s obviously a lot of business expertise amongst those who are recommending free stuff in a bike shop.

Seeing as it is such a good business model, perhaps one of these experts could start a bike shop and show us how to do it.

Our gratitude and the huge profit that they would make should be sufficient reward….

It is quite telling that everyone in a LBS here has said they don’t do anything for free.

Pretty sure none of us really said that…
Just tubes, I do loads of small jobs for free if it is someone who doesn’t assume they will get it for free and is nice to me. People who assume they get discounts/free stuff are less likely to get it. A kid with a banged up old bike and not much money got his work done at half price and I gave him some free grips because his were dangerous (to give an example)

The problem is if you don’t charge for something, people think it’s valueless. If you don’t charge for your time, people think your time is of little value.

This.

And it’s not just in LBS’s, but covers all work.

So quick google and my idea doesn’t seem too far fetched

http://www.cyclesurgery.com/workshop-events/content/fcp-content

It’s a competitive market, a little imagination doesn’t hurt!

Lost count of the number of times you have to fiddle with the brake or gears when you refit a rear wheel just so the bike is safe. That’s all for free.

THM – you’ll note they say they only demonstrate on their own bikes, not customer bikes – they’re not daft 😉

I’m all for educating people, I’ve designed my workshop so people can see what I’m doing, and I’m very happy to chat about any of the work I do. For one thing, it helps people get a more realistic idea of what’s actually involved in building and fixing bikes. If I had the space and time I’d definitely run courses.

DanW, don’t be taken in by the myth of the loss leader. With the exception of milk which has become politically difficult to stiff the supplier quite as badly for as it used to be, all promotional items you see in a supermarket or the likes of halfords will either be margin maintained by the supplier or have ‘marketing funding’ charges applied to the supplier. These are tools for revenue generation not available to small players (and yes this includes own label).
As for what is a fair price for the lbs to charge, I can and do home spanner, especially on hacks and project bikes but since I have so little ride time, as long as the cost of parts plus fitting is less than internet plus my hourly rate, the lbs gets my cash. And I use the saved time to ride the other bike. Oh and with clothing I buy it where I try it

since I have so little ride time, as long as the cost of parts plus fitting is less than internet plus my hourly rate, the lbs gets my cash.

The problem is you don’t get paid for 24 hours in every day so a few hours on a rainy Sunday evening are “free”.

I find most of the time it is quicker to fix stuff at home than call the LBS, make an appt, take it in, pick it up, check the work etc.

charging appropriately for fixing puncture?

its called “idiot tax” in the bike industry for a reason, you know…