Viewing 31 posts - 1 through 31 (of 31 total)
  • Anyone thinking of riding CwmCarn South Wales in the next few weeks…be aware
  • forbez
    Free Member

    Not sure whether this is in the correct place or not, so apologies if it isn’t, but thought i’d post it up to let you guys know, incase anyone was planning a trip there.

    Just to let you know, that the two Airstream runs on the top of the cross country at Cwmcarn are shut for the next few weeks. They are carrying out some maintenance on the track and changing things about.

    Was up there earlier only to see the diggers. Had a chat with one of the guys, and he said it’s closed for some reworking, due to health and safety! Gutted to be told that the Corkscrew / tunnel is going. But they are rebuilding berms and adding a few larger ones I think. The guy said it’s due to health and safety, due to people trying to sue the forestry commision for injurys, what a joke. If I choose to throw myself down the side of a mountain, it’s my choice, and I know what could happen, but I still do it!

    So just a heads up if anyone is going up to ride the Airstreams, it’s shut!

    nosedive
    Free Member

    I was literally just about to book the uplift thing when I saw this. How much does it cut out ?

    nosedive
    Free Member

    dude I’ve got my credit card out ready, help me out!

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    forbez
    Free Member

    None at all. The uplift is for the downhill only, and not the cross country. The Airstream is a freeride section at the top of the Cross Country.

    The downhill has recently been remodelled a little. Go do it mate.

    nosedive
    Free Member

    cheers pal, nerves settled. back to the booking site

    DT78
    Free Member

    That’s pathetic really, for a start you’ve got to be pretty rubbish to fall off on that bit, and they’ve already tamed it down by removing the ladder drops and the wall ride…

    Those riders who are trying to sue should be ashamed. If you ride a trail centre then you are well aware of the risks and in sueing you risk loosing all trail centres, and maybe riding on FC land in general

    Is this the same with the scottish trail centres too – are they taming down?

    zangolin
    Free Member

    Would be interesting to know if in reality there have been any actual legal cases brought against the FC at Cwmcarn for injuries received from the “freeride” track?

    forbez
    Free Member

    I wondered that, but the guy I spoke to, was a rider and not just a council worker. He said he’s riden the course loads, but said that people are trying to sue to FC. I’m not sure if anyone has been successful, as yet, or whether they’ve had a number people trying it.
    It’s bloody ridiculous though, surely people should understand the risks, understand that it’s a track out in the open elements that cannot be patrolled to ensure that there are no rogue obstacles, i.e. Some tree falling across the track, surely there is some responsibility on the riders to clear this kind of thing, which I’m sure most do.
    But I know that if I was to come off and injur myself, that’s down to me. I was either doing something stupid, or going to fast, which is my own fault.
    Atleast it’s only the freeride section that they are working on though, and that the rest of the track is open.

    l0key
    Free Member

    I took a big tumble out there and was out for 3 months, but it was entirely my fault. I choose to ride my bike up there, and i choose to to put my front wheel now 90 degrees to the direction it really should of been in. 🙂

    Who are the dullards sueing them? confiscate there bikes, they don’t deserve them.

    Hell if i need to sign a waiver and provide ID to ride it as is i’m happy to do so, any injury i get again can only be due to my dodgy riding, not because the course they built is unsafe, its my decision to ride it in the manner i do and speed* i do.

    *please note speed only applies to down, up on the other hand i hardly look like i’m moveing, granny ring i love you.

    mamadirt
    Free Member

    Gutted to be told that the Corkscrew / tunnel is going.

    First the drops and now this 👿 . I know there are plans afoot for new trails at Cwmcarn though.

    Hell if i need to sign a waiver and provide ID to ride it as is i’m happy to do so, any injury i get again can only be due to my dodgy riding, not because the course they built is unsafe

    Good idea but difficult to police I suppose.

    Karinofnine
    Full Member

    Hopefully the Forestry Commission’s lawyers are on the ball –

    Volenti non fit iniuria

    is the defence they need to run.

    stevede
    Free Member

    Although the top section isn’t too bad i wouldn’t avoid visiting purely because that section is closed, i was up there mid week and only found out once at the top, the highlight of the Twrch is the final section imo. I pushed up a few times to hit that final descent again, could also see from the push up that the dh run has been re-routed slightly before the drop across the fireroad.

    Lummox
    Full Member

    perhaps it’s that the ‘free ride’ area is so accessable that it’s used by less experienced riders, if you take the DH track for example unless you’re on the uplift it’s a fair effort to get to the top, but the free is not far up from the car park and i’ve seen multiple school groups riding it (good on them imo )

    I’m only playing devils advocate here as personally i think it’s a real shame that things are sanitised for the confused few and the challange is removed for the many, i managed the drops before they went but missed out on the wall ride (didn’t have the plums for it)

    atlaz
    Free Member

    My friend had an off at the tunnel section (bike just missed another friend). Slightly mashed up face, bruised ribs but he chalked it up to stupidity.

    sparkyspice
    Free Member

    “It’s my own stupidity” is a refreshing thought but unfortunately not the way of the shite society we live in. People have jobs mortgages/kids etc and 3 months of work hurts nore than the ribs/collarbone etc. No win no fee adverts on TV don’t help and when the bills start to pile up, people look for an escape route and until the law is changed ‘No win, No Fee’ scumbags will continue to prey on the injured and employers (or in this case the FC) will be forced to take the hit. In the end though it is the increase in H&S and the dumbing down or closure of things like these trail centers that will result.
    I like the idea that people are responsible for their own actions when they know the risk, but having been stung for £95k as an employer, you’ll forgive me for having a jaded view of this subject…

    buzz-lightyear
    Free Member

    A few more failed cases against trail centres should do the trick to establish the case law.

    hugor
    Free Member

    These kind of cases forced the closure of many great skate parks across many of Sydney’s beaches. It used to be a common features to have half pipes and all kinds of obstacles on the beachfront in a designated area and it was a popular attraction. Again nobody forces anybody to ride their bike or skateboard into these areas, but the law decided that all injuries were the local council’s responsibility.
    I hope the UK manages this problem better than Australia did.

    antennae
    Free Member

    I’d be happy to sign a waiver too (Esher Shore used to do this after similar legal problems).

    I’d imagine it’s often not the mountain biker who sues the trail centre, but they claim on their unemployment insurance because they’re off work with the injury, then the insurer looks for someone to sue…

    cymohndee
    Free Member

    My understanding is that the FC has crown imunity, the land is effectively in the hands of the state. That means they cannot be held liable like any other land owner for claims.

    This is one of the reasons we can actually MTB on FC land. Can you imagine trying to sort out risk assessements and public liability insurance for Cwm Carn if you were a landowner? It would make it impossible to get anything off the ground. This is why it is so important to keep our forests out of private hands. If we loose the FC we’ll loose legal MTB.

    The FC exploit crown imunity, MTB is an important diversification for them, but they have to do as much as they can to keep the local emergency services and hospitals happy. Unfortunately you can’t protect idiots against themselves. I think thats why they are making the changes.

    DT78
    Free Member

    I thought the crown immunity thing isn’t so enforcable these days? I seem to remember reading the NHS used to hide behind it, but now you can sue them?

    Interesting suggestion about insurers looking to recoup, I hadn’t thought of that.

    cymohndee
    Free Member

    http://www.hse.gov.uk/enforce/enforcementguide/investigation/identifying-crown.htm

    “Although the Crown is bound by the general duties of HSWA, S.48(1) establishes that it cannot be prosecuted, nor can it be served with improvement or prohibition notices. This Crown immunity applies both to central government departments and to other Crown bodies such as the Forestry Commission.”

    TheSouthernYeti
    Free Member

    The ‘freeride’ section (aka additional features) is proper rubbish though isn’t it. About time they sorted it out IMO.

    minzo
    Free Member

    Does anyone know if this section is still closed?

    flatfish
    Free Member

    Closed yesterday but the rest of the trail/car park was virtually empty by normal saturday standards.
    I had a pleasant ride yesterday, even without the “freemince area”.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    It may be getting rebuilt because people are crashing and injuring themselveses – not because FC ghave been sued,

    to sue the FC sucessfully you would have to show that they are negligent. Trails built to the usual standards would not be negligent.

    old_mtber
    Free Member

    Thanks for putting this one up. I was planning to visit this week and always enjoyed the 2 Airstream sections. Don’t think I’ll bother now. Perhaps Afan instead – anyone know what is open there and is there a cafe yet?

    Cheeky-Monkey
    Free Member

    The public forest estate is mamaged by FC, not owned by them. It is owned by the state. They risk assess the trails anyway, irrespective of whether they have to hold a specific insurance. Look at OGB37 etc.

    The FC exploit crown imunity, MTB is an important diversification for them, but they have to do as much as they can to keep the local emergency services and hospitals happy. Unfortunately you can’t protect idiots against themselves. I think thats why they are making the changes.

    Again, not my understanding. I’m not sure claims would be brought under the HSAW Act anyway. H&S is absolutely fine TBH, we still kill far too many people in construction, agriculture (including forestry) for me ever to think it’s a system and structure that should be done away with. The problem is more often (IMO) people’s (often site managers / policy makers) poor abilities in the assessment and handling of risks.

    Case law in climbing has established that there is a concept of informed consent i.e. if you partake in an activity that has inherent risk knowingly then you accept it (came about through climbers on crags on local authority land IIRC).

    Waivers etc are meaningless AFAIK, you cannot “trump” responsibilities under the law like that. If a facilitiy is provided it needs to be fit for purpose. How you define it and what that fitness is all depends.

    adamclark66
    Free Member

    I was up there a week ago and spoke to one of the guys who works there; really friendly guy and seemed to know a lot about the local area. We had a chat to him about why the FR section was closed and he said nothing about riders sueing more about how his boss (who I think was the ranger) having to fill in a load of paper work each time the air ambulance has to be called out (which had came out 3 times in as many days!)

    keppoch
    Full Member

    Might go over this afternoon, is this section still closed?

    keppoch
    Full Member

    Yep, still closed. Trail is in great condition tho’ had a blast.

    nosedive
    Free Member

    i went there about 2 weeks ago, its a real shame because that Twrch trail is pretty featureless without the airstream bits. definitely one of the more boring red loops in the UK

Viewing 31 posts - 1 through 31 (of 31 total)

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