Rights of way on 1/50,000 are marked in differing dots/dashes to show footpaths and bridleways etc in pink. Also on the maps some paths are shown as black dots/dashes indicating a path on the ground but for which there’s no right of way.
How does the STW world feel about riding on these?

Looking for moral pointers….

Fair game IMO.

* laughs at the poor suvverners *

yes, it’s generally a learning experience as you can get ‘stiled out’, but lots of good stuff out there, I’m ‘polite cheeky’, ie slow down, say hallo, smile etc and helps put loops together.

? black paths – do you mean boundaries

The only person you offend by your presence is the landowner, regardless of your mode of transport. Ride but avoid obvious confrontation. If you are unfortunately confronted by the landowner, respectfully leave. If other users moan, tell them you are helping to establish the right of way.

IMO

I use the 15 minute rule.
If I ride a trail and meet less than one person per 15 minutes, it’s OK.

? black paths – do you mean boundaries

No, boundaries have a different marking, it’s the smaller ‘black’ paths I mean

I’ve tried a few of these paths before and they are highly variable. Be prepared to push or carry your bike a long way if you decide to use them. Many are not ridable.

…but plenty that are ace after dusk ! 😀

HTH

I was wondering about this when I made a tongue-in-cheek post on the Helvellyn thread. I thought that legally, we are only allowed to ride on bridleways. If this is the case, then the moral pointer is clear, surely.

I feel quite uncomfortable about the vagueness here especially in sensitive areas around Surrey Hills.

As amusing at HTH is (and practical), ignoring clear legal rules will surely lead to an unwelcome conclusion – that is unless mtb-ers see themselves as latter-day right-to-roam warriors?

On this line – are you allowed (legally) to ride to the top of Helvellyn?

I thought that legally, we are only allowed to ride on bridleways. If this is the case, then the moral pointer is clear, surely.

Your right to ride on bridleways is protected in law. That doesn’t make it illegal to ride elsewhere.

miketually – that’s interesting, but can you clarify?

ignoring clear legal rules will surely lead to an unwelcome conclusion

Which clear legal rules, and what conclusion? You do realise that trespass is a civil offence, and the only thing that can happen is you’ll be asked to leave and sued for any damage you’ve caused (AFAIK the latter has never happened for a cyclist riding where he doesn’t have a ROW).

The point that mike is making is that a BW means you have a right to be there, the lack of existence of a BW doesn’t mean you’re not allowed to be there.

If there’s a publicly accessible path then its fair game. Although they can turn into nettle / bramble hell, so be warned!

As muketually says, you are not being criminal. You can go where you like. But without a right-of-way, you can’t use the law to protect yourself from the rights of the landowner (to evict you).

No-one is advocating making a nuisance of yourself (OK, maybe the guy from Mojo suspension is). Nor should you resist the landowner if asked to leave, or he can use reasonable force to evict you.

How do imagine the existing rights-of-way were established? AFAIK, by establishing prior use. So use it.

It depends on where and when, i.e. to me the busy ones are a no go (but only when they are busy, ok when they are quiet), any that go through SSSI’s are definitely off limits, and the rest need to have common sense applied e.g. don’t ride them when it is wet and you might cut up the pathway, don’t ride fast through livestock, close all gates behind you etc.

Thanks – I never understood that.

I stand corrected on “clear rules” comment!

Might be worth having a read of http://www.singletrackworld.com/category/news/access-news/

Again thanks – very interesting article.

Hmmm.

All the wriggly well we might be allowed, and we’ll sneak on anyway because we’re not really doing any damage stuff is great, right up to the point where we have to talk about trail bikes, or trials bikes.

I don’t ride on ‘cheeky’ stuff because I see the damage that it causes, both to the tracks and trails themselves but more importantly, to the image and activity of ‘mountain biking’.

The Moors near me have been repaired, reseeded, regrown to protect the edges of peatland along the rocky outcrops around the area. What do mountainbikers do? Ride across the reseeded area, destroying all the work done.

Well done chaps, way to go, knobs.

Thanks – I never understood that.

I stand corrected on “clear rules” comment!

It’s a tricky area. The general rule is be considerate and that includes BW, so even though you might have a legal right to ride on a BW, it may be wise to not too at a particular time.

If the ground is particularly sensitive and it’s just rained a bucket load or it’s very busy on Sunday afternoon with a OAP coach party e.t.c.

Similarly if it’s a quite footpath and you are considerate to those you do meet, careful not to frighten animals e.t.c, meet any cry of “your not allowed ride hear” from ramblers with a smile and “I know silly isn’t?” you should be ok.

Poaching trails is not a crime.

Ahh the moral argument.. Moral? you sure moral’s the right word?

Tonight I rode on one of my fave loops, 35k’s of combination bridleways/woods/forest/paths etc. Only one of these has a “no cycling” sign on them, it’s one of the most used paths along the river near me. It was put up there because of an old bloke who has access to the river front for launching/recovery of his boats. Now then you have to understand he’s an old git, tried to kick off many families with kids riding trikes alongside pushchairs, you know that kinda thing. He’s also tried to kick off commuters and general leisure fatties on old mtb’s, you know Sunday riders on the way to the pub. Well (I do go on don’t I) I’ve been riding this path for 15 years now, access to the woods etc. and he’s only confrunted me once in that time. He stood in the middle of the path and held his hand up, I slowed to less than walking pace and he started rattling on about the land being his and that if cycling continued on it he’d put barriers up and fence it all off.. I politely told him that I’d like some of my council tax money back for creating the path and his sea defences and the hedge cutting he recieves and also the creation of a small access road he had biult FOC by the council… I know this because an old BMXMate works in planning in the council and he rides the path too.. So, he was all flumoxed and I said to him as long as there is wind in my lungs I’ll keep riding along here and that if he wants to try and block off the path he’ll find a policeman and the council knocking on his door.. He did block the route off once, but the police took down the planks of wood and chucked them on his lawn, we were there, so too a group of the local WI who were just as pee’d off with him as us more normal folk.
Since that incident (18mths ago) nothing has happened, but as it’s a really busy path I don’t ride it a peak hours, just too much like hard work dodging all the offroad pushchairs and fat moms with dribbling kids.

So, I prefer to ride “cheeky trails” as and when I like, but I do try my best to make as little damage as possible, never enter farmers fields with animals in them, nor do I ride these if I get the slightest incline that I’ll not get through without causing a small amount of agro to me or others who use it, and I don’t make these trails a common use, I use these infrequently and vary my rides to suit..

You really only have two choices, ride em’ or not. Your choice. But if you do ride them, just remember that there will be others that get wind of what you do, and if you do create some sort of well used route, be prepared for the consiquences if you are not sympathetic to it’s original use.

Blimey I’m bored, BBC4’s playing an old program on Titan.. adn I’ve seen it.. Hence I’m hanging on here.. hahhaaaa

If the ground is particularly sensitive and it’s just rained a bucket load or it’s very busy on Sunday afternoon with a OAP coach party e.t.c

Absolutely. Don’t be a nuisance.

I live in Calderdale – we adopted right to roam before the Jocks.

Damage and footpaths assumes that Tge classification bears some relation to what is on the ground. We all know it was through some strange set up in the 60s.

If I wasn’t on my phone I would post a photo of a motorway style bridge that is fp classified.

Use your common sense. If your weaving in & out of folk its probably best avoided. I use them around Lichfield, if I cant be bothered to go to Cannock. Very rarely meet anyone, & a smile & pleasant “Hello” goes a long way if I do.

Hmmm…

I guess these responses are what I expected really.

The following is my understanding of the legalities of riding or not on designated footpaths (rather than byways and bridle paths etc).

On designated footpaths you have no legal right of access. However, it doesn’t make it illegal to ride them. If the land owner can demonstrate that at that particular time you are either a) scaring livestock b) in danger of being hurt by machinery or c) Disturbing birds bred for sporting purposes, then you must abide by his requests not to ride. Also, some local authorities may have put legal bylaws in place to make cycle access to footpaths illegal – therefore some paths you’d need to check their status.
So then, if there’s no bylaws in place and the land owner cannot demonstrate and of the above points, then you’re allowed to ride there.

Am I correct here?

I thought those black dotted line were non-ROW tracks as such no one has a right to be there (apart from any right to roam ramblers got via mass trespass 😉 ) so anyone other than the landowner giving you a hard time about it is on dodgy ground.

Is that correct?

OP some are pretty good some not worth bothering with, experiment or scope out the track with a family walk or something first…what else are family walks for?

Sometimes I’ll use them but most of the ones locally are either over grown, have a stile every hundred metres or have just been ploughed so not exactly fun. Fortunately there is an extensive network of bridleways so no real need to use them.

Through the summer I used footpaths to link my way completely off road to the official trails in Bristol, I eventually gave up as it was pointless most are over grown and hard to ride, easier to take the road (with a couple of nice clear footpaths thrown in).

then you’re allowed to ride there.

no. not allowed, nor illegal.

it is trespass – civil offence. the land owner could try and sue you for damages – that you individually had caused – almost impossible.

Loving the 15 minute rule. I use the, if more than two people have a moan rule. I strayed into the walkers area on Friston Forest and two people had kittens, it was a wide path and I was pootling along, I mean walking pace, chill out people, where’s the harm? Lucky old Scotland.

I don’t ride on ‘cheeky’ stuff because I see the damage that it causes, both to the tracks and trails themselves

There’re some bridleways that get trashed by horses, and some “footpaths” which are maintained 4wd tracks. So its merely a case of use your common sense. Sadly, its missing from a large proportion of the great British public.

But I did have fun explaining the trespass rule to a fella who tried to stop us riding on a footpath recently. He ended with a “so long as we all know, that’s ok”

i ride where i want and i’ll be the judge of what damage i am/ am not causing.

seeing the destruction rendered by the horse event on dartmoor on saturday, i’ll never be worried about erosion from mtbs again.

anyway, riding where i want is the first step towards the people’s republic of england.

take the land back brothers.

i ride where i want and i’ll be the judge of what damage i am/ am not causing.

+1.

Frequently ride paths which are not on OS maps, just because they look like they might be fun. I can do this because locally there’s not many others using the areas I ride in. In busier areas or national parks environments that might be more tricky. As long as you ride sensibly though it shouldnt be an issue wherever you are.

I was just just thinking this morning about all the cheeky trails ridden by mtbers around Brighton and if, for example, the Council started challenging mtbers at Stanmer Park what sort of interest/attendance there woudl be in a mass trespass.

There must be hundreds if not thousands of people who ride the same cheeky trails I do but whether they’d just move on rather than challenge restrictions on access, I don’t know.

DTP – seems like you are no well armed to go an have a chat will your neighbour, Mr Macall……!! Good luck. Let us know how it went!

TM – the same “me, myself, I” attitude was used by all the walkers wrecking paths such as Dungeon Ghyll for many years. Nice one – that will do great things for the mtb cause.

TM – the same “me, myself, I” attitude was used by all the walkers wrecking paths such as Dungeon Ghyll for many yearsthat trespassed on Kinder Scout and opened the (out)doors for the rest of us. Nice one – that will do great things for the mtb cause.

TM fixing services at your disposal.