Viewing 38 posts - 1 through 38 (of 38 total)
  • Anyone on here moved to France?
  • chilled76
    Free Member

    Morning all,

    Have any of you guys up’t sticks and moved to France?

    I’ve had a bit of a long term lust for moving to the mountains but it’s always been a bit of a pipe dream.

    A job has come up in my field that’s based a few miles west of Geneva just over the French boarder and I’m considering applying. It’s a March deadline on applications for a September start so I’ve got a bit of research time.

    First glance rent looks expensive, the rent I’ll get for my 3 bed detached house with a garage will probably get me a 2 or 3 bed apartment there.

    Beyond that I know nothing about French taxes etc.

    Anything people have found moving out there which would be a good heads up for someone contemplating a move?

    Would mean the wife giving up work for a bit and scrimping but that sort of stuff I think can kind of just work out if you’re optimistic.

    Huge life decision and rather scary. Thoughts?

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Do it. Think of the mountains!

    Mrs_oab and I have few regrets – one is not buying a certain cottage in Dumfries and Gallway 20yrs ago, one is not doing the living abroad for a few years thing before kids.

    jimbobo
    Free Member

    My mum lives in France. Law an local govt is a nightmare, but she uses a website called angloinfo that deals with everything from French lessons to translating official documents. She finds it pretty handy. A friend of mine also lives in France, spent every night in the bar, was fluent in a year.

    mikedabear
    Free Member

    I would highly recommend it even if just for the experience. My wife and I moved there to work around six years ago. We lived in the wilds of the Corbieres which is a mountainous area within the Languedoc region. We loved our time there. If the outdoor life and good food and wine are your kind of thing then it is awesome. Also we found the locals to be brilliant. They were friendly, helpful, always up for a laugh or adventure and very warm. If there is an ex-pat community in the area you are thinking of my advice would be to learn French and mix with the locals instead. One good reason for this is as @jimbobo has said the bureaucracy is a mare. You can get advice on how to deal with it all, but the locals know how to get around it all and what you can disregard. Anyway that’s only a minor thing, the lifestyle in the mountains is great.
    As for the cost of renting, see if you can get something short term and look out for something in the villages and commute. Driving on the mountain roads is entertainment in itself.

    NewRetroTom
    Full Member

    Lived in the Chamonix valley for 3 years working as an accountant. Loved it.
    Near Geneva will be expensive but it’s also a great place to be. Skiing and biking potential is awesome!

    wallop
    Full Member

    I’m envious – would love an opportunity like that!

    chilled76
    Free Member

    Thanks guys. Keep the info coming please.

    We’ve got a young baby (9 months) which is about the only thing making me hold back a bit. I guess if we stayed she’d grow up bi-lingual and go to French school.

    Wife’s on the fence about it, I’m keen but also cropping myself at the prospect.

    badnewz
    Free Member

    I’d go for it. It’s not that far away, compared to moving to Oz.
    And your child is young so probably the ideal time – would be harder if they were 10 years old.

    flap_jack
    Free Member

    Stayed in Chamonix a few years ago, and the guy in the flat above worked for SAP in Geneva. He said the commute was 1 hour and totally worth it. His wife was treating the experience as a total chill-out holiday.

    br
    Free Member

    No, Germany for us, but wife gave up work and we’d a 18 m/o.

    Lucky for us that it was a company sponsored move, so all costs covered plus went ex-pat so NT tax code

    finishthat
    Free Member

    If you can afford it do it – its one of the best places in world to live
    everything is at your doorstep and the proximity of the airport makes it easy for visitors – the mix of people from all over the world due to CERN and Geneva will make it easier for your wife via nurseries and creche contacts.

    poolman
    Free Member

    Go for it, i moved to spain to see what it was like and am still there 14 years later. Keep your house in uk and a wad of cash as backup, mix with the locals and enjoy the lifestyle.

    paulx
    Free Member

    Tax in France guide here:

    https://www.french-property.com/guides/france/finance-taxation/taxation/

    Explains re tax on your UK income – e.g Rent and how they tax you on your French income.

    hth

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Is stevomcd bored enough to be on stw just now or is he too busy having a great time in France?

    irons
    Free Member

    Hi Chilled,

    I live in Switzerland near Zürich. While the cost of an apartment and many other things is quite high here, keep in mind the taxes are very low. Not sure what your situation is, as an American here I paid about 4.5% for 2 years, now that we have a baby it is about 3.75%. Many Swiss who live near the border hop over to do their grocery shopping, in Germany near me. Want eclaires or french cuisine? Just a cruise away. Or easy weekend trips south of the Alps for winter riding in Italy or Spain? Pick a tunnel. From here there are a lot of places with distinct cultures within a days drive, pick a direction. It wasn’t a tough decision for me!

    Matt

    maxtorque
    Full Member

    Northwind
    Is stevomcd bored enough to be on stw just now or is he too busy having a great time in France?

    He looks to be way too busy smashing up his nice new Snowboard stuff in massives of lovely off-piste powder to be here….. 😉

    DrJ
    Full Member

    Lived a couple of years in Paris and loved it. Still have a flat there and kep thinking of moving back permanently. Oh – but we’ll soon not be in the EU, so maybe I won’t be able to. Thanks, brexshitters.

    cchris2lou
    Full Member

    Moving to France at the end of march .

    But I am french and we are moving to my family town .

    French admin can be a nightmare , but how often do you need it ?

    Edukator
    Free Member

    French admin requires patience and tax officials are officially a law unto themselves. They do tend to respect their own rules though so if you keep coming up with what they ask for you get there in the end.

    We’ve got a young baby (9 months) which is about the only thing making me hold back a bit.

    Kids have better lives in France IMO. The language issue is solved with a nounou. Junior went to school at 2.5 and through the state school system doing BAC ES Abibac ending up with a French BAC and German Arbitur. Really excellent schools right through at no cost. That opens up university places the world over so don’t think a French education will handicap your child. As a bonus you’ll end up with a philosophical pinko lefty up for any manif going. 😉

    ocrider
    Full Member

    Haha, yes, Edukator! As a parent of a child now in seconde (first year of lycée) I can only concur 🙂
    Been permanently here for 16 years now (both my kids were born here) and the one main thing that I have learnt is that French admin runs smoother if you have friends and acquaintances working in the civil service willing to help you out.

    chilled76
    Free Member

    OK so a few people have mentioned administration nightmares. Can anyone be more specific about what you mean by this?

    Tax officials.. more info in this please?

    I’m right at the start of looking so this is all really new to me and any information I can glean would be really helpful.

    Thanks again guys

    Edukator
    Free Member

    If you’re not in business there’s not much to worry about, the people in the Mairie and prefecture will generally be helpful and informative. Simple formalities will be simple.

    If you set up in business expect to be treated like a criminal or a least a very low form of life:

    Junior signed up as a self employed ski instructor. We went along to the tax office/Urssaf and got all the info/forms, filled them in with great care and sent them off. The registration came back with the wrong business location. They changed it not us – to the correspondence address where the taxe foncière professionelle is much more expensive. We are now hassling them to correct it. This may take some time.

    They did exactly the same with a flat I let, four months to correct that.

    When I ran a business with employees I used to live in fear of what I’d find in the letter box. Urssaf, many caisses sociales, inspection de travail, many tax declarations, various inspectors. I never ever made a mistake and paid up exactly what was due when it was due. That didn’t stop the threatening/intimidating letters from chancers in alternative caisses for example. When things get really out of hand (gross incompetence on their part) it’s perfectly in order to pêter les plombs. In fact it’s sometimes necessary to get them to realise how evil they are being.

    cchris2lou
    Full Member

    everything takes a bit longer .

    been waiting 5 months for the Livret de famille from the french consulate .

    elzorillo
    Free Member

    The only thing I’d be concerned about is the overwhelming number of posts running with the theme ‘It was great. We lived there for a while.’

    Edukator
    Free Member

    A recent one is that my carte d’identité expired a few years back but they refused to renew it. They’ve informally extended the validity by five years, which doesn’t wash with the Spanish/British authorities who demand a valid document not one with an expiry date several years back. So you either get a passport or report your ID card lost/stolen at the police station and get a bit of paper to give to the mairie to get a new ID card.

    cchris2lou
    Full Member

    i dont have a carte d identite , just a passport .

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    OP you need to look closely at the taxes. They are much higher than in the UK. Your property tax is (probably) going to be dependent upon your income too. You should also factor in Private Health Insurance. Most things I have found are cheaper in France (thays compared to London area though) so money does go further.

    Aside from Edukator there are a few Brit ex-pat STWers. I have a French wife and we spend our time between UK and France (Paris). Many things to love, many things that make you want to pull your hair out. Bureaucracy is basically a French word ! As Edukator said far easier to be an employee that a small business. From my experience of the health service its materially better than UK.

    Do your research, it sounds like a very interesting opportunity and great lifestyle location.

    hofnar
    Free Member

    If you have some money invested look into capital gains taxes. They are not the same and you may very well end up paying tax on what in you home country was tax free from the date when your investment started. 2000 value 5 pound actual value 20 move to France sell and pax tax on 15 even if free or lower rate in home country.

    wicki
    Free Member

    Never ever throw away any piece of paper you will need it one day.

    You will need an attestation for every sinngle thing in your life even though easily forged these documents are vital

    Service …the french dont have this word you will que for hours only to have the door door slamed in your face or the attendent walk away and start a conversation about fashion or her mother.

    Dont ever turn up at a quater to break time.

    Saying all that I love it here.

    DrJ
    Full Member

    Service …the french dont have this word you will que for hours only to have the door door slamed in your face or the attendent walk away and start a conversation about fashion or her mother.

    But just when you are on the point of gunning everyone down with a machine gun, someone will be unexpectedly kind and help you through the maze and you will feel guilty for your violent thoughts. Until the next time.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    Your property tax is (probably) going to be dependent upon your income too.

    You can get reduced taxe d’habitation if you are really poor. Full rate for everyone else. Taxe foncière is paid by the property owner and not variable.

    You should also factor in Private Health Insurance.

    A mutuelle if you are as least twice as sickly as the average person, change your glasses regularly and are poor at maths. The standard SECU works fine for us.

    2000 value 5 pound actual value 20 move to France sell and pax tax on 15

    La taxe sur les plus values is digressive depending on how long you’ve held the investment so that’s simply not true.

    I’ve not had a door slammed in my face in thirty years. I’ve never been sent away without being dealt with if I’ve turned up in time to get a queue ticket. Determination will get you what you are due.

    Expats waste too much time comparing, just embrace the system, learn how it works and consider yourself an immigrant rather than an expat. “Expat” conjures up the idea of colonial types with contempt for the locals, somehow superior. You’re not, you’re just one of the mass of people the bureaucrats are dealing with. While they go through the motions be patient, polite, smiling and persistent. It’s only when they’ve broken at least half a dozen of their own laws that you can pêter les plombs

    jerseychaz
    Full Member

    We moved (to rural Brittany) in July last year – brilliant timing! Buying a house and setting up as an Auto-Entrepreneur has been relatively straightforward – the demand for odd documents and your Mothers maiden name on everything is weird but that’s how it goes! We’ve generally found everyone helpful & cheerful although the receptionist at the Maison Medicale was the perfect stereotype this morning 👿 we’ve found that stuff is generally more expensive than the UK, particularly building materials and that’s not just an exchange rate quirk. Having said all that, as we get into life here we’d not change the decision which has been kicking about the household for 10 years or so.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    Apply for the job, take time now with a quality application and decide later if it’s for you & family if you get called for interview etc

    That location will have renters working in Geneva/Switzerland (hard to rent there & expensive). I am sure if you find a town/village 30 mins from office there will be good value rentals

    Summer and winter playground. Kids have half day on Wednesday and usually do some activity. Lots of smaller ski stations with cheap half day noribg or afternoon tickets etc. Italy a shortish drive etc. Plenty to explore and enjoy

    globalti
    Free Member

    My cousin and her husband moved from Orkney to Provence (couldn’t be a more extreme change) and bought an old farm to convert into a gite. Everybody was very cooperative at that time and it was easy to do. After ten years of just about managing they’ve had enough and want to sell up but the property has been on the market for two years with no takers and they can’t get out.

    I lived in Paris for two years in the mid 80s but it was not successful; the job was carp and I was lonely and depressed and I ended up walking out. I don’t look back on those years with nostalgia, more relief that I’m back home.

    But I love the French, I’m a grand Francophile.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    After ten years of just about managing they’ve had enough and want to sell up but the property has been on the market for two years with no takers and they can’t get out.

    We have good friends, whose mother persuaded them to buy into a property she was selling in Brittany. It worked as a long rental to a local for three years, but has now been empty for 5 and they cannot sell – literally they have asked for offers around the village and no-one will even make a silly cheap offer, and it is only worth euro60k apparently…

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    Where abouts in Brittany @matt ?

    One experience I have heard from Brits more than once is buying a place to do up and then finding its worth no more than they paid for it. IME French often buy land and build new, big empty country so easy. Property market is not like the UK. Have French family members who own many properties, tend to buy and rent long term and then gift to kids 20-30 years later.

    OP will send you a message offlne

    chilled76
    Free Member

    Won’t be buying, the average property around there is silly expensive due to ski lift proximity etc.

    I’m going to rent our house out if we go and rent an apartment.

    It’s a salaried position so I’m not going to need paperwork for sorting our owning a business etc.

    Cheers for info so far folks, it’s appreciated and the start of a lot of research.

    beanum
    Full Member

    I live over the border and round the lake a bit in Switzerland. I can’t help with French bureaucracy therefore but there are a couple of websites for expats in Switzerland that might be useful.

    English Forum
    Most people on here are in Zurich but there are some social events in Geneva and the marketplace can be a good place to pick up furniture from people moving back to where they came from…

    GLocals
    This is a networking site mainly for expats in Geneva. If you like standing in a hotel lobby with a name sticker talking about how wonderful your new job is you’ll love it.. 🙂
    On a serious note, there are loads of groups for people with similar interests which could be a good way to meet people.

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