This is a terrible thing to say but I’ve been to a Dentist about 5 times in the last 35 years… and only 2 of those was in the UK

I know this sounds funny to some but it’s nothing to do with fear of drills or needles but the cotton wool stuff they shove down your throat in your mouth.

When I was a kid they didn’t do the cotton wool thing… and I have a really bad gag reaction … so I basically stopped going when they started the whole cotton wool job.

Does anyone know if this is optional ? Are they allowed to do it without or am I wasting my time trying to find a dentist that will do it without.
Would it make any difference if I just get the tooth taken out vs filled?

have you asked one?

Dunno what you’re talking about TBH. The only time I’ve had cotton wool in my mouth at a dentist is between my gum and my cheek.

I’ve never had any cotton wool shoved anywhere in my mouth by my dentist. Had plenty of work done as well. (3 root canals, 2 teeth out, 1 tooth transplant)

i do……

The cotton wool thing is mainly about “moisture management” – The mouth is a wet place but all the newer fancy (tooth coloured) materials and glues only stick to a dry tooth surface. The cotton wool and small sucky thing are designed to absorb saliva and keep your cheek and tongue out of the way.

The Silver amalgam fillings don’t need to be kept dry when they are put in so you don’t need the cotton wool in many cases for them.

Having a filling is generally more pleasant than pulling a tooth out I would say!

I can’t recall “the cotton wool thing”. I go a couple of times per year and have had removals and fillings.

I’ve never had any cotton wool shoved anywhere in my mouth by my dentist. Had plenty of work done as well. (3 root canals, 2 teeth out, 1 tooth transplant)

Jeez, so I based this on two dentists years ago and one told me they had to do it this way now and I just believed them….

Dunno what you’re talking about TBH. The only time I’ve had cotton wool in my mouth at a dentist is between my gum and my cheek.

That’s the stuff I mean…. it just made me gag the entire time… he filled 1 side and I was meant to go back for the other (this is late 90’s) but I just didn’t want the cotton wool again

i do……

The cotton wool thing is mainly about “moisture management” – The mouth is a wet place but all the newer fancy (tooth coloured) materials and glues only stick to a dry tooth surface. The cotton wool and small sucky thing are designed to absorb saliva and keep your cheek and tongue out of the way.

The Silver amalgam fillings don’t need to be kept dry when they are put in so you don’t need the cotton wool in many cases for them.

Ah, that all makes sense then.
Are silver amalgam still an option ?? (Just that at my age a bit of mercury isn’t the biggest worry I have)

Having a filling is generally more pleasant than pulling a tooth out I would say!

Probably for most people… I’ve got a high pain threshold and very low gag threshold though. For me it was like 30 minutes feeling I couldn’t breath… so I’d take something more painful over feeling like I’m choking for 30 mins… on top of that so many bits have chipped off I doubt its savable anyway .. it feels more like its just an empty shell from my tongue and I haven’t slept properly for 2 weeks…

Just called one dentist … is it normal now they want to do a 30 minute “new patient appointment – apparently x-rays and such” separately to actually doing the work?

That’s the stuff I mean…. it just made me gag the entire time..

Something on the outside of your teeth is causing you to gag? That’s not a gag reflex, it’s psychosomatic.

Are silver amalgam still an option ??

They’re the default unless it’s in your front teeth, on the NHS at least. The white ones are more expensive and don’t last as long.

For me it was like 30 minutes feeling I couldn’t breath

Dentists now are night and day to when I was young. One thing mine will say is “we can stop at any time” – it’s fine if you need to take a break to compose yourself.

My first Visit to a dentist for 30 years is tommorow morning,Lost a small piece of tooth around a month ago, no pain or discomfort, apart from the strange new tooth shape in my gob.
Have a bit of a phobia of dentist’s, had a lot of bad experiences at the hands of my childhood tooth butcher.But i have been lucky and have a half decent oral hygene regieme.and never suffered any problems or pain.
I’m assured by my other half the dentist I’m seeing tommorow is fantastic,with a great mouthside manner.
Just hoping to get I’ve been a good boy sticker 🙂

Stevextc – I’m exactly the same, having had bad experiences with gas as a child, low gagging reflex and being ripped off by 2 dentists, the first was someone who has completely ruined an implant I had. He was struck off several years ago.
Also I’m a child of the 60’s and 70’s where nearly every tooth was drilled for money.

Luckily my confidence has been restored by a young dentist and a decent hygiene regime.

Go and visit a few local dentist surgeries (you’ll get a feel for the place), or ask around for recommendations on a local forum.

Good luck

So most dentists default position is to save a tooth now – it’s often easier to fix a tooth than it is to replace a missing one after it’s been taken out and you only have a fixed number to start with. That said, there is a point where it’s not worth the effort and what you can tolerate will influence that – you need to have a discussion with the dentist.

Which brings me on to

is it normal now they want to do a 30 minute “new patient appointment – apparently x-rays and such” separately to actually doing the work?

Yes, if they’ve never seen you before, who knows what state your teeth are in. It’s much better to properly assess everything then make a plan to fix all your problems and teach you how to avoid problems in the future in a managed and time (therefore cost) efficient manner.

Something on the outside of your teeth is causing you to gag? That’s not a gag reflex, it’s psychosomatic

Quite probably but so is waterboarding.

Its the same with most things in my mouth… often I’ll gag cleaning my teeth but then of course I can just take the brush out…

You could do with some tuition and coaching from John Terrys mum.

Wow, never had gas but I had a dentist who drilled for cash.
I hadn’t wanted to bring this up .. but I stopped going and a few years later he screwed up my mum .. big fuss and foreign dentists involved as no UK dentist would get involved… then a few years after that I heard he’d been struck-off…

He’d replaced my mum’s dentist who she’d had since she was a kid… and I was convinced he drilled little holes into teeth and then next visit declared it needed filling… (early 70’s)

Last UK dentist I used was my mum’s (but I was living abroad then) and that’s miles away now… she was really good even after I’d made a mess trying to pull it out myself so it might be quicker than going through all this rigmerole locally … she just booked me in had a look and pulled the remaining bits of tooth out.. and did restore my faith a bit as well…

Thing is I don’t really want a huge discussion or a plan or other problems fixing (which to me just sounds like a revenue stream and being held to ransom until I agree on further work)… I just want the damned thing out… don’t want/need a replacement etc.

Last time I tried removing it myself with some pliers and the tooth shattered which is why I had to go to my mum’s dentist as it left all sharp bits… but I’m starting to feel sorely tempted to have another go with this one.

I feel your pain (well, no I don’t). Bad experience when I was a kid of waking up being sick into a bucket of blood put me off for life. Problem for me was that my teeth were so strong that I had to have baby teeth removed. Adult teeth the same and very good (on face value now) haven’t given me any issues and have been looked after by me (tho not been to a dentist for many years) until I started grinding my teeth a few years ago (probably also age and lack of dentistry as well). It’s all now going to hell in a hand cart quickly and I’ll have to go to a dentist soon as poss, dreading it tho.

Last time I tried removing it myself with some pliers and the tooth shattered which is why I had to go to my mum’s dentist as it left all sharp bits.

😯 😯 😯 ah, that’s on a totally different level to me

Thing is I don’t really want a huge discussion or a plan or other problems fixing (which to me just sounds like a revenue stream and being held to ransom until I agree on further work)… I just want the damned thing out… don’t want/need a replacement etc.

Last time I tried removing it myself with some pliers and the tooth shattered which is why I had to go to my mum’s dentist as it left all sharp bits… but I’m starting to feel sorely tempted to have another go with this one.

So you’re going to have a go at a fairly skilled bit of minor surgery on yourself to remove a bit of your body with some household tools (you won’t Get all of it!) then inevitably have to get a professional to finish the job almost certainly meaning you will suffer a far worse experience than you need to, for no really good reason.

Then, you don’t want to listen to a caring professional explain how you can avoid repeating the same experience in future and perhaps fix some problems when they are small and non urgent because, even though you’ve let one of your teeth deteriorate so much that removing it is the only option, you don’t believe that there might be some other issues in your mouth that genuinely need sorting out. Would you ignore a cancer surgeons advice too?

Avoid building a relationship and some trust in this person who, believe it or not, has your best health interests at heart and if they really cared totally about the money certainly wouldn’t be a dentist in the current times, simply because you had a bad experience with a cowboy 40 years ago (who was struck off by members of his own profession)

Then basically repeat the same experience with a different tooth in a few months or years time and expect some dentist to drop everything in their stupidly busy and stressful day to fit you in with an urgent problem even though you have ignored their advice.

Sounds like a great plan!

Last time I tried removing it myself with some pliers and the tooth shattered which is why I had to go to my mum’s dentist as it left all sharp bits.

😯

I hate going to the dentist (I quite like my dentist as it happens) – don’t really remember any bad experiences other than I used to be sufficiently needle phobic that I had minor work done without anaesthetic and which used to nip a bit. Then I had a tooth break, needed quite a bit of work and the dentist wouldn’t do it without a local which broke that spell. Since then like I say I don’t enjoy it, but it’s bearable.

Then recently the broken tooth which was already mainly repair, cracked properly and had to come out. I was terrified but the dentist was brilliant despite it being a fairly lengthy job (50 mins, and out in bits)

The learning for me was that locals generally work; dentists have you interests at heart; and last BUT BY NO MEANS LEAST!!!! they don’t remove teeth with pliers, or even proper forceps, they use special tools to lever it out from the socket and loosen it before the last lift out is done with forceps. And pulling your own teeth with pliers either makes you harder than nails, or insane. Or both.

And pulling your own teeth with pliers either makes you harder than nails, or insane. Or both.

Constant pain for weeks will make you do stupid things….

So you’re going to have a go at a fairly skilled bit of minor surgery on yourself to remove a bit of your body with some household tools (you won’t Get all of it!) then inevitably have to get a professional to finish the job almost certainly meaning you will suffer a far worse experience than you need to, for no really good reason.

Then, you don’t want to listen to a caring professional explain how you can avoid repeating the same experience in future and perhaps fix some problems when they are small and non urgent because, even though you’ve let one of your teeth deteriorate so much that removing it is the only option, you don’t believe that there might be some other issues in your mouth that genuinely need sorting out. Would you ignore a cancer surgeons advice too?

Avoid building a relationship and some trust in this person who, believe it or not, has your best health interests at heart and if they really cared totally about the money certainly wouldn’t be a dentist in the current times, simply because you had a bad experience with a cowboy 40 years ago (who was struck off by members of his own profession)

Then basically repeat the same experience with a different tooth in a few months or years time and expect some dentist to drop everything in their stupidly busy and stressful day to fit you in with an urgent problem even though you have ignored their advice.

Sounds like a great plan!

Doesn’t sound like a great plan right now, but then it’s not hurting too bad right now….

I think you need to understand how deep the mistrust goes though…
We had a family dentist who was almost part of the family .. he’d been my mum’s dentist since she was a little girl and we didn’t “go to the dentist” we went to see Mr Stavely… (we hired his chalet every year for holidays …) In other words this was someone we trusted implicitly….

Then he retired and this new cowboy took over his practice. He’d be drilling a tooth he said needed filling then be drilling on the other side and when asked he was “just cleaning something up” (or something like that) then next time he’d find a hole on the place he’d “just been cleaning something up”…. My mum refused to believe anything as “Mr. Stavely wouldn’t let just anyone take over his practice” (or similar) … until a few years later when she had what were later said to be 3 perfectly good teeth removed for a bridge that wasn’t needed. I’d had left home by then but my mum was really upset… no dentist in the UK would actually write down what they said … and then a few years after that I learned he’d been struck off.

Then late 90’s despite the dentist knowing I had a bad gag reflex I wasn’t even given the option of amalgam fillings or told this was why I needed the cotton wool… I’m not certain but the current tooth is one of the ones he filled and the other 3 (on the other side he didn’t touch) he said needed doing or would need pulling out in a year or so are fine something like 20 years later….

I don’t class this bloke as a cowboy like the other guy but he wasn’t exactly truthful either. If I’d known the amalgam fillings didn’t need cotton wool I’d have opted for those…

almost certainly meaning you will suffer a far worse experience than you need to, for no really good reason.

Except last time I didn’t suffer more… it didn’t hurt more AFTER than before… the extraction wasn’t a worse experience than having cotton wool for a filling… in fact it was a whole lot less unpleasant than the cotton wool.

Underlying this gag thing I think it’s just completely dismissed… previous conversations have been “so you don’t like needles” … nope I have no problem with needles … (or watching surgery on myself under local – indeed I’ve asked to be propped up to watch – strangely what might make many people gag I find fascinating or even just needles or stitches I prefer to watch)

To me it seems that it’s accepted some people don’t like needles…(or scalpels) and that is perfectly OK but have a gag reaction and “You’re just afraid of needles really” ….

Anyway now the problem is I can’t even get a dentist unless I go for an introductory appointment in some unknown time in the future and then get given another appointment… I’m in pain, hardly getting any sleep but I have to go through an introductory appointment to make an actual appointment

Or ... my (never used) work provided dental insurance say’s if I’m more than so many miles from home (way less than to my mums) I can use some “emergency appointment scheme”

Tell the dentist you’re in pain and ask for an app so that you can have the check up and help in one go.

Go and speak to the dentist properly in the way you have here, the case you describe above seems coherent even if i don’t really ‘get it’ – but that’s pretty much the definition of a phobia isn’t it, that it’s irrational?

There’s nothing that’s physically making you gag, like tickling your epiglottis, it is a psychological thing that is physically making it happen so a decent dentist should listen and address those concerns. IANAD but maybe there are ways they can do it to avoid the situation (could the asst hold your cheek away while the filler is applied so it doesn’t get wet?), maybe use a different filler that isn’t sensitive, maybe even sedation techniques (chemical or psychological, eg hypno).

If the dentist isn’t happy to listen and meet your needs, move on and find one who is. May take time, but knowing that if you need dental work doing you have a process to have it done I’m sure is a better position than being terrified about having teeth problems because if you do you can’t get them fixed.

i understand you have a problem with going. You’re not alone, plenty of other people do too, some even worse than you. But sticking your head in the sand about your teeth until you have a problem then moaning how no one can see you isn’t the best way to go about it. Your dental problems aren’t going to magically disappear if you ignore them, they will get worse.

There are lots of approaches to your phobia, from sedation by drugs, to hypnosis or CBT, to just a caring understanding professional who will take time to ease you through the process.

BUT you’re only going to access the things that will help if you make some effort yourself to start the process by engaging with some dental professionals when you’re not in pain. These things take time (& a little money too) Waiting until you have an urgent problem wont allow you access to them as you haven’t got a relationship with a practice already.

Go and speak to the dentist properly in the way you have here, the case you describe above seems coherent even if i don’t really ‘get it’ – but that’s pretty much the definition of a phobia isn’t it, that it’s irrational?

Yep… that’s it… like I said (though not an expert on torture) I understand waterboarding your not ACTUALLY drowning… you just feel like you are and the point is (as I understand it) that the bloke who withstands having his fingernails pulled out and fingers broken cracks under the waterboarding.

Special forces troops are taught to rationalise this to realising they are not actually drowning and it’s psychological….but I understand that is far from easy and pleasant!

I know this is called “gag reaction” but what it feels like is not being able to breath…

If the dentist isn’t happy to listen and meet your needs, move on and find one who is. May take time, but knowing that if you need dental work doing you have a process to have it done I’m sure is a better position than being terrified about having teeth problems because if you do you can’t get them fixed.

That is really a far better long term solution … but I’m really wondering if I shouldn’t just try the “more than XX miles” away from home and try my Mum’s dentist again….

Because of previous experience I feel like I would like 3 dentists written opinion (on any long term thing) and then hopefully all three would say the same and I’d be happy… however it seems like dentists are unwilling to do this… and that just makes me feel more suspicious (even if a bit irrational) because this is a subject I know nothing about… To be honest, it’s one I have studiously avoided learning about…

I’m presently leaning at trying to use my mum’s dentist again.. if for no other reason that I trust her.

I feel like I would like 3 dentists written opinion

A dentist worth anything will give you a treatment plan: one for you one for him/her. It will say what state your teeth are in, what needs doing how many appts that will be, and how much it will cost. If they can’t/won’t (and I don’t believe you’d find a high street dentist who wouldn’t), then go find another.

Your CCG will be able to tell you which dentists are accepting NHS patients, and they may even have an urgent care service to get you seen sooner.

The last sentence is the key one. Find one you trust and stay with them. May take some searching initially but it’s worth it.

Mine is the one I’ve had all my life (actually the dentist changed but I stayed with the same practice so they carefully handed me and my nervousness to another one in the right way) and is now 30 miles from home. But i go twice a year, which is no issue, and if I have an ’emergency’ like the tooth break as it did above, and you’re in proper pain, 30 miles is no great shakes knowing they have the skill and sensitivity to sort it.

I’ve got a high pain threshold and very low gag threshold though

That’s the worst audition for 50 Shades of Grey I’ve ever heard…

All dentists should give you a written treatment plan as nick says but remember that as with most medicine, there’s rarely a black and white, right and wrong answer and treatments suggested will sometimes vary depending on the opinion of the individual person, their experience and areas of particular skill and on how much you are prepared to pay/ the system they see you under.

NHS dentists are often time poor and the system sometimes makes it difficult to offer everything that’s potentially available for a given situation.

Trust is the key

Trust is the key

This is very true, tell the dentist about your fear, trust me they’ve heard it all before and won’t be surprised, people have all sorts of fears and phobias and the dentist will have seen heard more than you’d believe. They won’t think you’re weird or whacky

ceepers is the best dentist on here and speaks much sense 🙂

I haven’t had a NHS dentist in decades, a bit of a mix between keep moving (and not being able to find a NHS one accepting new patients) and my own fears and the fact I’ve always needed something sooner not later…. so I’ve always gone private straight off.

@Ceepers… we cross posted and thank you for at least understanding… I’m not having a pop at all dentists …

i understand you have a problem with going. You’re not alone, plenty of other people do too, some even worse than you.

Yes but my experience other than the last one at my mums (a few hundred miles away) is they simply don’t believe me that I’d rather suffer pain than feel like I can’t breath for 30 mins.

It seems like they go back to “You’re scared of the drill or scared of needles” or “adverse to pain” which is really really wrong…. it’s all been “yes, yes but what your really scared of is…..”

(I think what I mean is they can understand people being scared of needles but not finding the “feeling like you can’t breath” doesn’t seem to register and they default to “but your really scared of needles).

No Offence taken!

Like any profession, there are good and bad dentists, sounds like you’ve been unlucky. I would go back to the dentist you already trust or ask around your friends for recommendations locally, that’s often the best way.

Maybe look for a practice that specialises in nervous patients or offers hypnosis (like we do)

Don’t let the dentist start anything until you’re sure your ready.

I had a filling redone last week, didn’t go numb after the 1st injection so gave me another. Still didn’t seem to go numb but he said must be OK to start. Bit of muffled screaming but we got through it. Then my mouth went numb.

Survived, my first dental appointment in 30 years this morning, she was great put me at ease, took Xrays and had a poke around,back in a month for a repair to my broken molar
Despite the 30 year gap ,she declared my teeth are in very good nick 😀

Don’t let the dentist start anything until you’re sure you’re ready.

I had a filling redone last week, didn’t go numb after the 1st injection so gave me another. Still didn’t seem to go numb but he said must be OK to start. Bit of muffled screaming but we got through it. Then my mouth went numb.

When i had my tooth out earlier this year it took loads of injections. Something to do with the block he was trying in the hinge of my jaw wouldn’t take because of the infection, so in the end he injected between tooth and gum and that did. But it doesn’t last as long, so when the tooth broke off and he had a problem getting one of the roots out and had to call one of his colleagues to come and advise – by the time she’d finished a filling next door unknown to me it had started to wear off. As we found out when she set to with an elevator (I certainly elevated, right out of the chair)

Then once the tooth was out and the block could take effect – my whole face went numb on one side. I couldn’t feel my nose, or ear and pretty much anything in between for most of the day.

Many thanks to everyone, especially Ceepers patience….

I just got back from 2nd appointment today …(as in 2 in one day) as I have to be away from home for an indefinite period from next week.

Very good advice and talked to the dentist… this morning she was sceptical on saving the tooth due to the cotton wool thing… (but at least she didn’t say “Oh you’re really scared of needles”)

Anyway… through wetting the cotton wool first and by applying the anaesthetic first… she managed to drill out the root canal and has packed it with some magic stuff and put on a temporary filling….

Cougar’s pointing it out that it’s psychosomatic also helped….. because it helped me to explain that this was completely irrational but I still feel like I can’t breath and even if that’s all in my head it still feels real.

Result!!!

well done! Its not going to get any harder than that now! 🙂

The white ones are more expensive and don’t last as long.

Not entirely true, according to my dentist (OK, not the more expensive bit).

She ranted on a bit about urban rumours and said it comes down to competence at putting them in. Seems that if there’s even a tiny bit of moisture in the filling then it’ll fail early.

If done correctly a white filling will last at least as long as an amalgam, but on average white fillings will fail earlier due to poor technique when they’re put in.

well done! Its not going to get any harder than that now!

A lady said that to me once but she wasn’t a dentist and it wasn’t her tool in my mouth.