The balance of electricity generation is shifting to more renewables, and will continue to do so.

Obviously I am not typical of most people, as we have solar panels, Tesla Powerwall 2 battery and a Nissan Leaf.

Just going to quote some data from 14th August to 14th October on the possible electricity generation, from renewables off our roof.

Granted, the figures will be worse for the next few months, but perhaps gives an insight into running costs.

The car will have been charged from our own solar generation over this period, seldom use a rapid charger.

Data period
14th August to 14th October, detached house, four adults.

The home consumed 1220 kw

Solar panels produced 710 kw

The Tesla PW stored 314 kw

We paid for ( drew) from the grid 600 kw

Fancying something like a Kia Soul EV for shorter journeys.

We have one at work. Nice car – smooth, comfortable, quiet and well equipped. Real world range is about 100 miles. Boot is rather small. It’s been reliable – the only fault being a faulty tyre pressure sensor.

Consumption: sept 145KWh, août 78, jul 155, juin 125, mai 133, avr 120, mars 135, feb 130, jan 162 dec160, nov 172, oct 125.

Production: sept 335, a 359, jul 438, jun 429, mai 441, avr 428, mar 313, fev 227, jan 158, dec 145, nov 151, oct 262

No gas, solar thermal for most of the hot water, about 2m3 of wood for heating and cooking between November and March.

what’s your house like edukator? and when is everyone going to be out?

I’m guessing it’s not a draughty Victorian terrace?

We have one at work. Nice car – smooth, comfortable, quiet and well equipped. Real world range is about 100 miles. Boot is rather small. It’s been reliable – the only fault being a faulty tyre pressure sensor.

Thanks.

Yeah, the boot could be bigger.

A small individual house built in 1933 but no longer cold and draughty, Doris. Walls, floor and roof all well insulated, triple-glazed windows, LEDs everywhere, low consumption appliances.

The car will be useless for a trip to our caravan in North Wales as we couldn’t charge it

nor will it cater for my requirement to deliver grandfather clocks to the other end of the country*.

the average car journey in the UK is 7 miles.

*i have no such requirement.

Why do electric cars still look the same as a combustion engine car? Whats under the bonnet?

The motor, inverter and whatnot are fairly large, and there’s still all the ancillary things for cabin heating / cooling, brakes, power steering etcetera.

That said, when our Zoe was new an indicator bulb wasn’t quite clicked home properly; I could have changed it with boxing gloves on there was so much space around it. It was truly a revelation compared to most cars that need triple jointed, child sized arms with no qualms about getting scratched and dirty…

We just got our Zoe back today after getting it repaired due to someone driving into it. I am so excited about driving home later, it’s just such a lovely experience compared to any petrol and especially diesel car I’ve driven. The courtesy car was a new automatic Corsa, and it really was shit.

The courtesy car was a new automatic Corsa, and it really was shit.

LOL. truely hateful. they must have put some effort in to making corsas such bad cars.

the average car journey in the UK is 7 miles.

Yes but that doesn’t mean all journeys are of average length…..

Kia Soul tested at the weekend.

Great drive, quiet and smooth. Lots of toys and big in the front. Good for the Gfs shorter journeys.

Ordered on lease 1100+199 a month. I reckon 4 ish quid for a tank full of leccy. That should last around 120miles depending on where and how it’s driven.

Cheaper to lease than to buy new in this instance by a long shot.

BEVerly my i3

I’m lucky enough to work in the car industry and have driven pretty much everything with wheels on. And yet the i3 is probably one of the best cars i’ve ever driven (not the fastest, not the most exciting, not the biggest, not the flashyest, not the most expensive, but, as an overall package, ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT at just getting you around!)

Running costs are so low as to be not worth adding up. It went in for it’s 2 year service a month or so back, and that cost £196, which actually doubled the years running costs including fuel…..

4th year driving a Leaf.

The worst thing about driving it is having to listen to the ill-informed shit about batteries and sources of electricity production etc. It is more sustainable and non-polluting than a fossil fuel vehicle. Fact.

The charging infrastructure is messy and has a long way to go before it works properly.

Range needs to be around 200 miles to be enough for most people as an only car. Saying that I get about 120 and it’s enough for me. I don’t pay for my fuel, get free charging at work and there’s a few free chargers about. A 6.6kWh onboard charger makes a difference IMO as you get a useful amount from the fast chargers dotted around.

2 more years and they’ll really be there. Some very good second-hand deals around, as a runaround car it’s a no brainer.

They are excellent to drive, actually makes commuting more fun.

Also been looking at the new Soul, looks nice.

The local auction house sometimes get a Leaf for sale.
They are really cheap, suppose folk are scared off due to Battery ignorance.
Wonder if the warranty is transferable as the cars are from Lease companies?

I’d be interested but mu commute is 55 miles each way and I don’t have charging at work. A mate is looking as his commute is 17 miles and his current car’s got to 155,000 miles and starting to cost a bit.

And yet the i3 is probably one of the best cars i’ve ever driven (not the fastest, not the most exciting, not the biggest, not the flashyest, not the most expensive, but, as an overall package, ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT at just getting you around!)

That’s interesting as cars are always reviewed on speed, practically, handling and mpg etc but very rarely observed is how stressful a car is to drive.

The Soul had no lag, no gear change jump (eat your heart out my own DSG) , super smooth poise and no engine noise of course. All add up to a pleasant driving experience.

A new way of appreciating a car.

However I can see how this range anxiety could be a ‘thing’.

I also wonder in the future if demand for EVs and electric power starts to compete with petrol , does that mean electricity being market driven will also rocket up as demand increases, and get taxed etc. Thereby negating one of its major benefits.

BEVerly my i3

Do you have the range extender? I’ve heard that it’s unpleasantly noisy when it cuts in.

That’s interesting as cars are always reviewed on speed, practically, handling and mpg etc but very rarely observed is how stressful a car is to drive.

Same for the Prius. So easy to drive – you can be as clumsy as you like with the pedals and it doesn’t jerk the passengers around.

Cheaper than petrol or diesel,

But is it? Comparisons are usually against EVs with a subsidy of several thousand pounds to buy and electricity with a 5% VAT rate against ICEs which have heavy taxes on both ownership and fuel.

EVs subsidies will not be there if ownership ever approches mass market.

My dad’s just bought a Tesla Model S (2nd hand). I’ll update you in a year, if you can hang on? 😀

I like the idea of the i3 with range extender, bit expensive though.

£36500..

Bit much innit.

IMHO Electric cars are old tech dressed up as new.

Think scalectrix,you use your battery to drive to the motorway and then hook in to the power track then you can drive as far as you like the battery part ceases to be an issue as you dont need to carry energy to power the car.

No-one wants to pay for the infrastructure thou 🙁

IMHO Electric cars are old tech dressed up as new.

Electric motors are not new, but burning fossil fuel is medieval.

Range extenders so far have been either normal engines or, as in the case of the i3, a motorbike engine. I dunno why they can’t fit a really efficient generator tuned to a single speed and load.

EVs subsidies will not be there if ownership ever approches mass market

Total cost of ownership my be wobbly – but if it suits your lifestyle and you have a tariff of about 12pKW – then it’s almost certainly cheaper to run.

That’s why I’m leasing, depreciation is way more on a purchase in my case.

@rone, what’s the battery cost?

i guess factored into the 199/month and then someone else’s problem when you hand it back in after 2 yrs?

i guess factored into the 199/month and then someone else’s problem when you hand it back in after 2 yrs?

The battery isn’t separate on the Kia Soul. So all in.

7 year warranty includes battery on the Kia.

My dad’s just bought a Tesla Model S (2nd hand). I’ll update you in a year, if you can hang on?

Out of my league but interested nonetheless.

“I can’t get my head around the silly battery leasing options though!”

“@rone, what’s the battery cost?

i guess factored into the 199/month and then someone else’s problem when you hand it back in after 2 yrs? “

Please, if people take one thing away from these threads its this:

YOU DON’T RENT THE BATTERIES ANYMORE!!!!!

All EV’s on the market with one exception (Zoe) are battery bought and even Renault have woken up and will be discontinuing that system next year.

EV batteries are warrantied for a MINIMUM of 5 years – they have to be to obtain the government subsidy. There are many manufacturers who exceed this including Nissan, Kia, Tesla and Hyundai

Renting batteries was only ever offered on a few gen 1 Leafs and the Zoe and its predecessor the hilariously named e-Fluence

Why this myth persists I don’t know. You buy/rent/contract an EV like any other vehicle

Why this myth persists I don’t know. You buy/rent/contract an EV like any other vehicle

Because car manufacturing websites are rubbish at imparting information?

Please, if people take one thing away from these threads its this:

YOU DON’T RENT THE BATTERIES ANYMORE!!!!!

noted – thanks for the clarification. But –

Why this myth persists I don’t know.

I’ll tell you! It’s because many people (unlike, it seems, most of STW) don’t actually buy new cars. So I go and look up used EVs and see articles like this from April 2017 – which state quite clearly that you need to pay to lease a battery. I didn’t realize that they’re all moving away from this, and that this info only really relates to older cars – and those articles don’t really make it clear.

@Doris – you are spot on. The amount of incorrect and disinformation out their on EV’s is incredible. Even that reasonably researched article you linked to has several mistakes and doesn’t really explain that you would be crazy to buy a second hand battery lease car, even at £3000 as you are entering into an unlimited rental contract on a second hand vehicle. There are legions of stories out there on EV forums of people locked into battery lease contracts they can’t get out of easily.

Its the same with depreciation – they are based on the list price before the £5k grant comes off and skewed by the battery leasing options to give a incorrect depreciation percentage. New EV’s depreciate no more than other cars (still a lot obviously) and infact my secondhand one (2yrs old at point of purchase) has flatlined this year as EV’s have gained popularity and I could sell it for waht i bought it for despite it having 12k more on the clock!

Fancying something like a Kia Soul EV for shorter journeys.

Not necessarily a financial or environmental switch but would seem to make a sensible second car as we don’t need two big cars.

Interested in how people felt about charging at home given the long charge times.

Wife’s colleague has one (Soul EV) as a company car. Charges to 80% in 20 mins. They collect their daughter from Uni (300 mile trip) and recharge at a service station whilst having a coffee each way.

They love it.

Just spent the last few days stress testing an I3 with the range extender.

First BMW in 15+ years i’d actually consider buying/leasing. Except the electric range is a bit marginal for my daily drive, an extra 20-30% and it’d be spot on. I really need a minimum of 180-200. We’ve found it to be nearer 140-150.

Only issue was the regen at zero pedal was very aggressive, took some getting used to (regen is bad for range, but good for city driving and driving feel), and the wind noise was very noticeable, but probably no worse than any other sit up and beg car. Just sounds worse with the lack of engine noise (and i understand the tyres are amongst the quietest on the market.)

Range extender was all but unnoticeable in city driving and couldn’t hear it over the wind noise at highway speeds. Stood outside the car, it was a little obtrusive, and sounded odd as pitch/engine speed doesn’t change in the same as a conventional car would.

Got a Tesla to do the same testing with next week, and a golf the week after and then a Chevy Volt. Unless it breaks down. Again.

I’d have a Tesla tomorrow, but we’ve nowhere to charge it at work or at home (our drive and garage are separate from our house, across someone else’s land. The garage does not have enough pitched roof to put lots of solar panels on, and gets overshadowed anyway).

However I can see how this range anxiety could be a ‘thing’.

Having had a Zoe for a nearly two months now we’ve got used to how far it will go, and – in general – the number of places you can recharge, so we’ve not had a problem at all.

Yesterday though I started planning how we’ll visit family in Lincolnshire, and it all went out the window because they don’t seem to have heard of rapid chargers over there. I think we’ll be taking the other car, unfortunately…

Second charging lead on my Golf has failed in month 19 of use. £811 list price if it was out of the 3 year warranty (& a disincentive to getting a second one for leaving at work).

Bloody hel! How can a glorified jump lead cost the thick end of a grand?!? Is it made by Apple??

So buy one from an aftermarket EV lead company

c’mon guys help yourselves a bit

Meh. The wife’s wee fiat 500 is the thick end of 600 quid for an exhaust, that’s just a bit of (shit quality) pipework.

Enjoying this thread, her next car will be electric for sure.

I’ve been on this forum long enough to know that you will never change your mind molgrips!

I will if you give me some science

Who are you kidding 🙄