Just got an email from “Howies”. apparently they are sending me a catalogue through the post, although there is a link which allows me to view the whole thing online. I had a look – it’s full of the usual prose spouting nonsense about saving the environment. I sent a reply telling them i didn’t want the catalogue and to save a tree. what’s the chances it’ll work?

Why did you give them your details in the first place if you don’t like them?

0.

I get 4 catalogues at the moment and post them all back, so far I’ve rung them, emailed, sent back catalogues with the unwanted tick. Hence why I get 4, as instead of removing me, they seem to re-add me, so I get yet another copy.

Serious question – viewing a catalogue online requires a considerable amount of power. How many times would you have to view it online before it was more economical in resource terms to have a hard copy?

Can we make any allowance for the fact that the hard copy complete with (often fairly good) pictures and words will sit around and potentially be read by other people (and in my case may end up being chopped up for my scrap-book)?

richc – I think they’re doing it to wind you up.

I’ve seen some twill shorts and a merino polo shirt that I want already. Nice brochure. I can’t afford much in there, but that’s not their fault. I hope I get a paper copy to flick through on the bog.

What djglover says….and no it wont work. They’re a business with green intentions, not a friggin charity. Plant your own tree.

BD – you keep a scrap book of phoney advertising?

it’s full of the usual prose spouting nonsense about saving the environment

Actually some of its quite interesting and honest. Have a look at page 36 (tell the Truth Even if it Hurts Your Business) where they talk about what they found when they looked at reducing their carbon footprint and in particular at the travel involved in producing the merino clothes. At the moment the raw wool is sent from New Zealand to China where the fabric is spun, and then it is is shipped back to New Zealand then to Fiji and then back to New Zealand before finally being flown via LA to London and on to Cardigan Bay. As they say: ‘No matter how you look at it, it didn’t make good reading’. So now they are looking at ways to cut the carbon footprint either by doing everything in New Zealand or getting the clothes made up in China as well as spun there.

‘Small company being honest about its environmental performance and trying to do better’ – where’s the scope for grandstanding on STW?

i bought something online from them ages ago and they’ve kept my details.

They’re a business with green intentions, not a friggin charity. Plant your own tree.

tomzo no theyre not a charity, well done sir! if theyre intentions are so green then why do i need a paper copy? and besides it’s not about planting trees it’s about not destroying them in the first place. i never said they should plant one did i?

viewing a catalogue online requires a considerable amount of power. How many times would you have to view it online before it was more economical in resource terms to have a hard copy?

many, many, many times considering how much energy it takes to re-pulp the paper, print and bind the booklet, not to mention the energy involved in transporting the booklet to my doorstep (petrol for the train/plane/royal mail van?) why would i want to read it anyway? it’s a clothes catalogue ffs i’ll have a look through it and if nothing takes my fancy it’ll go in the bin. it’s all online anyway i would probably look at it two or 3 times max.

kelvin :

I can’t afford much in there, but that’s not their fault

they set the prices kelvin…

yes andym but did they need to waste a peice of paper to tell us about it?

Well clearly in your case it was paper wasted.

if i cant do anything to stop a 150 page catalogue being delivered to my door against my will then surely i am being force-fed their marketing

you should be able to opt out, its the law.

you really should be able to opt out. i’ve had a look through the online catalogue and clocked a few things that i like the look of, i’m not trying to say they’re completely phoney honest I JUST WANT TO HELP THEM….

Howies, if you are listening i don’t need a catalogue in’t post cos i’ve seen the online one cheers…

They’re part of the Timberland Corp now days. What you think of their BS probably means nowt to them as they’re loaded.

I think somebody’s not getting any….

Chill out!

Serious question – viewing a catalogue online requires a considerable amount of power. How many times would you have to view it online before it was more economical in resource terms to have a hard copy?

Only as much as lurking on the internet.. if it wasn’t the e-catalogue being browsed it’d be STW 😉

some people like howies. the clothes and the ethics (or the marketing, if you’re the cynical sort).
some don’t.

that’s all there is to it really.

….and the ethics (or the marketing….

If a company that is in business to make money tries to portray itself as being ‘ethical’ then ethics/marketing are one and the same thing.

Some people buy stuff from Howies based purely on their ethics, therefore their ‘ethics’ have worked as a marketing tool.

There is nothing cynical about thinking this at all, its fact.

I work for M&S. ‘Plan A’ is a marketing tool, pure and simple.

fair point, i guess i meant that those who see the ethical stance as being purely a marketing tool are often seemingly (and cynically) implying that they don’t believe it to be true… but yes, you’re right.

…i guess i meant that those who see the ethical stance as being purely a marketing tool…

Even if Howies was set up to be an ethical company the fact that they make a great deal of effort to advertise the fact they are ‘ethical'(including sending out large catalogues of a dubious ethical nature when the information they contain is freely available via the internet) means that their ethics is primarily being used for marketing.

A bit like folk who give to charity and advertise the fact to show what great people they are.

Always interested to hear about howies but had no idea they are part of tmberland till now… Great kit but I dont know anyone who has bought their stuff for full price, worth looking at the sale list regularly

Dear oh dear, it really saddens me to see people write rubbish about not being sent a catalogue and saving a tree. Trees are a crop. They are grown to be cut down to make paper. When they are cut down new ones are planted to replace them. Rainforests are not threatened by paper making, ‘cos they’re hardwoods, paper is made from softwood forests grown in northern Europe, so it’s a continuously sustainable process. The inks used are water and soy based, so there are no petrochemicals used, except for those required for cleaning the machines. I like the Howies catalogues and keep them, in the same way that I like the old Whole Earth Catalogue, (look it up). I don’t know quite why some people have such a down on Howies, they are just trying to make a difference to the way clothes are made and the way that affects the environment, like not using pumice, but using ecoballs, which I honestly think makes their jeans feel better. I bought three pairs for £30/pair at the weekend in a sale they’re holding in Bath of end of line stuff. Sombrio are trying similar things, but I don’t see them being slagged off. Could it be because they’re Canadian and not British?

Well at least Howies make some of their stuff in nice Chinese factories.

I don’t know quite why some people have such a down on Howies

There’s some people who can’t resist the opportunity to grandstand, or never let a bandwagon pass by without trying to jump on it.

Some people buy stuff from Howies based purely on their ethics, therefore their ‘ethics’ have worked as a marketing tool.
There is nothing cynical about thinking this at all, its fact.
I work for M&S. ‘Plan A’ is a marketing tool, pure and simple

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And M&S have made a lot of noise about trying to be more green and more fair trade. Good – I’m glad to see green issues and fair trade go mainstream. They’re doing it to make money but if it can also mean a bit less damage to the environment and a fairer deal for workers producing the goods then it’s a good thing.

There’s some people who can’t resist the opportunity to grandstand, or never let a bandwagon pass by without trying to jump on it.

No less than those who like to jump on the “I’m ethical but don’t like to talk about it” bandwagon.

How is that horse? Comfortable? Its certainly high.

My girlfriend and I were getting two catalogues as we’ve both bought clothes from them. I phoned and said we only needed one. We only get one now.

You could always try asking them again…

FWIW they do sometimes seem to suffer from slack admin, but it’s not the end of the world. You’ve obviously bought stuff from them in the past, if you don’t like their stuff anymore the answer is simple – don’t buy their clothes. Rather than flaming them on the internets.

I reckon David H et al are actively doing more to take account of the external costs of their jobs than most of the slagger-offers above. They’re not perfect but they’re trying. Those of you who think they do the ethical thing purely to sell more stuff, I dare you pop up to Cardigan and say it to their faces. I hope you don’t fail to see the good in everyone you meet like that.

Sombrio are trying similar things, but I don’t see them being slagged off. Could it be because they’re Canadian and not British?

no. what it is, is i bought a pair of sombrio gloves but i didn’t get a mahooosive catalogue with lots of pointless articles in about saving the planet (nevermind the bloody trees). THAT’S what it is.

I would go to cardigan and say it to their faces, BUT…. it would be a complete waste of f*cking time and effort. and that is all.

Bomberman, you seem to be happy to waste your time.

well i’ve got enough of it kevin 🙂

“At the moment the raw wool is sent from New Zealand to China where the fabric is spun, and then it is is shipped back to New Zealand then to Fiji and then back to New Zealand before finally being flown via LA to London and on to Cardigan Bay. As they say: ‘No matter how you look at it, it didn’t make good reading’. So now they are looking at ways to cut the carbon footprint either by doing everything in New Zealand or getting the clothes made up in China as well as spun there.”

Try getting stuff made here – no chance any more as the chinese market can keep its costs so low and its quality so high that there is simply no way they can compete here any more. I go out of my way to buy NZ sourced and made products and it can be increasingly hard. But reading this it seems to me there must be a better way ?

Thought I’d join in this pointless converstion, because I’m bored and (like the rest of the posters appear to be) not currently getting any

CountZero – “Rainforests are not threatened by paper making, ‘cos they’re hardwoods, paper is made from softwood forests grown in northern Europe, so it’s a continuously sustainable process”

Erm, dude.. you have got that sooo wrong. Try examining the case of Tasmania (where I’m currently living). Rainforests – currently being chopped down to make paper. Exactly that. It’s a bit of an issue over here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/conservation/3309242/Tasmania-wood-pulp-mill-approved.html

(Oh god help me.. I thought I’d succesfully completed the STW rehab programme months ago, but here I am back again contributing to utterly pointless “I say this”… “no I say that” arguments. Things must really have got bad)

“At the moment the raw wool is sent from New Zealand to China where the fabric is spun, and then it is is shipped back to New Zealand then to Fiji and then back to New Zealand before finally being flown via LA to London and on to Cardigan Bay. As they say: ‘No matter how you look at it, it didn’t make good reading’. So now they are looking at ways to cut the carbon footprint either by doing everything in New Zealand or getting the clothes made up in China as well as spun there.”

God love Howies. The only company that can say that it’s looking to use Chinese sweat shops and then try and put a positive spin on it by saying it’s for ‘environmental reasons’. I’m sure that’s why Gap, Nike and Primark use them as well.

Got to love howies, they’d shine sh1t if they could, put a lifestyle story on its side then stick it ontop of a mini skateboard.

£225 for a pair of Jeans? FFS you can buy a car for that.

Beyond the b/s (which I like), the pricing (which is ok), virtually all the clothes I’ve had from them have shrunk. I’ve now reached the end of 2.5 relationship with howies. The stuff I did really like, their regular jeans, they’ve changed the fit 🙁 Jumpers have been ok tho’.

“Dear oh dear, it really saddens me to see people write rubbish about not being sent a catalogue and saving a tree. Trees are a crop.”

That’s true, but it’s not good news for the environment. What happens is that good land, rich in habitats is cleared to make way for monoculture tree cropping. Heavy duty machinery, fertilisers and preservatives are used in abundance. The trees have to be felled, processed, chipped, chemically or mechanically digested and only then turned into paper. All of this uses a huge amount of energy and resource, and is damaging to the environment.

Of course, recycling paper also requires lots of resources, but much less than virgin paper, and it saves on landfill.

So the claim that paper companies make (every tree we cut down is replaced) is true, but isn’t the whole story.