My neighbour is mid way through work on his house (we are semi detached with them).

They are undertaking work that impacts on the party walls and roof. When this all started, I had to be quite persuasive to get a Party Wall Act Agreement in place and signed (I got one or two days notice, not the statutory period). I also had to persuade them to let me have sight of their proposal insofar as it impacted on both of our houses. It was all quite amicable and we both did our best to accommodate each other’s wishes.

It was explained to me that owing to the fact that were using Celotex to insulate their walls, there might be a 50 or 75mm step where the houses met. As this would largely be hidden by vegetation, I agreed that this would be acceptable.

I was also shown how they proposed to add a ‘secret gulley’ where the roof joined. The diagrams etc showed a flush finish with a discrete line running down the centre of the join. Reality is quite different. There is about a 4 inch step up from my roof to theirs now, and they have concreted my tiles to theirs. This means there has been a significant alteration to the roof line. It also means that I can’t replace any of my tiles without disturbing their tiles (breaking up the concrete etc). The bottom line s that the de facto result differs somewhat from the original agreement.

The house is reasonably old, but not listed. There is a mixture of tile types to the front elevation commensurate with the ongoing development of the property and tbh they have been reasonably good with their choice of replacement tile. They aren’t weathered and look horribly new but that is just the nature of the beast. What does look wrong is the step up.

I’ll try and get some photos on Flickr and link to them if it helps.

First though. If you are planning to work on your house and make a fundamental alteration to the roof line, surely that requires formal planning. There has been no application for planning (I have checked).

Apart from having a chat with him and telling him he needs to get his roof done again, is there are remedy for this? I will be talking about the concreting of my tiles etc but this is a bigger issue altogether and I’d like to be sure of my ground. I have googled around but seem to be going in circles.

A concrete fillet joining two roofs is a short term solution in my experience. The fillet will crack and leaks will appear between the joint.

I know as the house I bought has a lean to roof at the rear shared with next door. We had a leak in our downstairs toilet because the fillet was cracked and letting water in. Unfortunately it was our roof that was replaced last (before I bought it) so my problem to sort.

Will he also not require building control approval under Part L1B as his renovation is making a thermal change or can he self certify that?

Don’t know?

Not my area of expertise.

Picture of roofline

Beware….big file

Is he doing the work himself?

No. A ‘little’ builder – as opposed to a decent sized firm.

That already looks dodgy as hell. Good luck getting him to change it.

Don’t know much about this, other than depending on council they will need building control approval for changing the roof covering – maybe call them to ask about this, as they should’ve been notified about what the work involved?

looks dodgy as hell.

Again no direct experience, but a lot of research on this as a property i’m (trying) to buy has roof issues – that doesn’t look good.

That’s a bodge, the cement fillet is cracking already. It looks like lead has been laid under the joint; depending on what the lead has been laid on, this may become a problem in future (Lead sags if not properly supported)

I’d be worried about water getting in, under the new tiles and maybe into your property, as well as next door. It’s in both you and your neighbour’s interests to sort this out properly now.

If they won’t face up to the problem, get them to give you a letter (indemnity) agreeing to remedy any leaks in the area.

So…not looking good then….. 🙁

If it helps, this is what they are using as the ‘secret gulley’

I think I would very firmly state that you’re not happy and unless the bodge is removed then you’ll take the matter further. Meanwhile, talk to the Planning Dept and Citizens Advice.

Edit: how much rain has there been over the last 12 months?

Is it worth asking for the planning officer to come and have a look?

It’s possible he should have got planning permission.

Rain…..not lots but this is still very much a WIP from their perspective, the builder is still on site.

talk to you neighbour.

if I was him I wouldn’t be happy either, tbh, and if you join in the builder might admit a mistake they have to pay to rectify…

Have they definitely used that gulley and if so why have they filled in it/covered it in concrete?

My rule of thumb is if it looks crap then it is probably crap, I cant help with a solution im afraid but i’d not be happy with that!

Your neighbour probably has no idea if the job is good or bad. He asked a few builders and went for the cheapest.
He’s had no advice from anyone hence your short notice and was unaware building control should be involved.
This at least is the impression I’m getting, i might be wrong. Call building control, they’ll need paying and set up a job number then they’ll come out. Tell your neighbour not to pay his builder , or at least hold back a large amount of cash until the roof has been signed off.
You need the indemnity that any water ingress from that area will be repaired by your neighbour at his cost.
Good luck.

Bodgetastic!
Talk to your building inspector, it looks crap, but if there is a decent overlap it probably won’t leak.
This is one of those situations where neighbours think, F*** next door, this is what we want.
If it was my house i’d strip my roof off and make it 50mm higher than their’s, see how they like it!

@dooosuk The only reason I can assume the roof is higher and it doesn’t fit flush, is that they have laid celotex on top of the battens.

Otherwise…..your guess is as good as mine.

Looks like some difficult conversations in the offing then.

Maybe the chicken way is just to get building control out……

Someone has royally screwed up their calcs and hoped they would get away with it, or realised they haven’t left enough space for the insulation and decent ceiling height.

Not the chickens way. The right way. It’s your house being affected. Tell your neighbour you’ve called mind to check on your house.

Excuse the crappy paintwork (was a job for this summer) the front elevation

and they’re insulating the outside of the house the same way they’ve done the roof?

I’d talk to the neighbour and also ask what building control have said…

Won’t water from your roof shed under his tiles (and mortar fillet), rather than the other way around ?

slowjo – I know why the roof was raised.

I was asking if you’d actually seen them fit that gulley you linked to. My guess is they haven’t. If they have fitted the gully, why can’t we see it i.e. why have they put concrete over it.

And as per wwaswas comment…are they cladding the external walls with insulation too?

Thermal Elements

Making significant changes to thermal elements (walls ,roofs or floors) would normally require Building Regulations approval and require the thermal insulation of the element to be upgraded to a reasonable standard. Walls are defined by Regulation 2(3) of the Building Regulations 2010 as being thermal elements.

From http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/externalwalls/

my 2p.

you say your place is not listed, but is it a conservation area?
if not, I doubt whether planners would have any influence on the appearance as its not ‘significantly’ changing height/ridge lines etc.

what did your party wall agreement say?
might be best bet to go back to the surveyor and find what, if anything was written into that in terms of the roof detail.
if its work to a party wall, then in theory both ‘parties’ should be happy with the work carried out…

@dooosuk – no I didn’t see it fitted, though I saw the raw material floating round the drive.

Yes they are cladding the external walls with Celotex.

DenDennis…. I’ll dig it out again and have a look.

They didn’t have a surveyor….just his Dad who used to be a long time ago.

Link

Wording re the roof.

What he has done appears to be the correct detail for mortar bedding to a verge (ie running up the side of the roof on a gable wall, as if your house wasn’t there). You’ll have exactly this on the other end of your property, and I’m sure you don’t get any water in there.

I can’t see that putting a tray below will help as there’s nowhere for any moisture to run to, and with that detail you shouldn’t get any moiusture under the edge of the tiles anyway.

Is your house felted under the tiles? If so, and it hasn’t sagged adjacent your party wall, then there shouldnt be an issue.

It does look really crap though 🙁

Sorry to say its a bodge and I wouldn’t accept it.

As above – get you local council building inspector involved ASAP.

its a poorly finished construction detail, done on the cheap

the mortar WILL crack and break up eventually – a few terrace houses near to me have similar roof details where slate has been replace with concrete tiles and the levels are different and they generally use a decent lead flashing along this junction, which makes maintenance a whole lot easier but doesn’t look great either

a bit like this, but not as tall

the positive news is if you do have the corodrain product underneath and it has been installed properly above any felt/sarking – i wouldn’t worry that much about water penetration as its designed to act as a waterproof seal or an abutment soaker (but it doesn’t appear to have an agrement certificate)

you don’t have any gutters on either property?

I like the porch roof protruding over onto your land, with, no doubt no gutter, which means that you’ll get all the rainwater running down your front wall.

i noticed that as well 😛 but kept me mouth shut…

I’ve recently done a party wall agreement with my neighbours for the extension I’m currently having built. With the letter I provided a set of drawings and my understanding is that the agreement is made on the basis the drawings are accurate compared with the end result. Surely if the extension is different from the drawings you have grounds for formal complaint?

Re the porch…it has been like that for over 150 years so not much I can do about it!

They will be putting a gutter up on the porch which will be an improvement.

I guess it is time to talk to the building inspector then.

Thanks for all the input.