Well the time has come for my nhs stage 4 sickness meeting. Which means possible termination of contract. Now I have been working all the hours they have given me plus extras since my last meeting in April where they said it would go to the next stage.

Now my sickness record in the past has been poor. It goes as follows.
Started December 2012, suffered a burn to hand on boiling water geyser was off from Jan 3rd till Jan 20th due to bulky dressing and unable to maintain hand hygiene for patient care.

Feb 2013- Motorcycle rta fractured leg and knee injury. Off till July 2013 off September for two weeks due to knee pain from above and severe swelling.

December 2013 to Feb 2014 planned surgery for knee.

June 2014 to September 2014 Ruptured achillies tendon on my other leg (Right) surgery,recovery and physio.

November 2014- two weeks kidney stone,infection and kidney stone removed under anaesthetic.

February 2015- Fell on ice badly sprained knee off work for a fortnight.

April 2013 – Stage 3 meeting

May2015- Sent home from work with severe vomiting back once 48 hour clear. Various other members of staff off with the same thing.

Now I’m no stranger to how my sickness record effects the NHS budgets due to needing agency to cover shifts etc.

But I’ve had a very bad run of acute injuries which hasn’t just effected me physically it’s been mentally demoralising 2013 I also was dealing with my step mum having a massive brain haemorrhage and spent 8 weeks in critical care both grandparents dying in Feb and April 2013.

Racking up debt due to exhausting sick pay. Through injuries.

I just find it hard to believe they have had me working from April to now wondering when/if I’m going to have my contract terminated etc.

I know my sickness records poor but I have tried hard to get fully fit since Feb and then this is shoved into my path.

Keep wondering if tonight will be my last ever shift.

Sorry to rant.

Blimey, you’ve been in the wars!

I think the message that you are trying to get across is that this is a run of particularly bad luck – and make the point that these are all highly specific, verifiable injuries – there is no way that you could be making these up. Looking at that list – there is very little there for them to argue with, ie: they all look completely legitimate/verifiable.

The only thing they could challenge is this one:

February 2015- Fell on ice badly sprained knee off work for a fortnight. however, given the previous knee issue, its perfectly reasonable.

They would (in my opinion – not a lawyer etc etc) have a very hard time getting rid of you based on what you’ve listed there.

The Feb 2015 knee was right knee and 2013 was left knee. It was early morning walking the dog after a night shift and he pulled a bit too hard and I slipped. Obviously I could of avoided the situation maybe by not walking the dog on a cold morning however I could also spend the rest of my life wrapped in cotton wool.

All injuries have been accidents. I also fractured my finger in 2014 but due to being scared of contract termination I just taped it together and took strong pain killers and eventually the pain eased after 6 weeks. Still won’t straighten though.

I’ve had a review by occupational health which my manager orgainzed before this meeting.

He said in his report that I’ve had a terrible run of luck with injuries and Ive hit the bottom and working my way back up. And I now seem highly motivated to get on with my role at put the past behind me.

So I’m hoping they listen to the occy health consultant.

Go to the meeting with uninion representation. Explain to them how hard things have been and how you’re working your way back up. Explain to them that these are mainly due to accidents or work policies that you couldn’t work. Ask why you weren’t offered alternative duties.

Good luck.

Bloody hell. I reckon they’ll half expect you to fall over on way into the meeting room.

Maybe they’ll take the view that bad luck has indeed come your way, or maybe bad luck can only stretch so far.

don’t go to the meeting, ring in sick.

Drac is spot on. Go with support. If you’ve worked OK since April then the meeting shouldn’t be about kicking you out unless something else is an issue.

And I was worried about my return to work interview tomorrow – returning from 3 weeks with anxiety and depression, after a week in April when I put my back out. Really looking forward to that hoop jumping exercise 🙄

Sheesh, I’ve contracted in NHS professional services and there were some folk who seemed to make a career out of abusing sick leave because they’d gone out and got hammered on the weekend etc, and nothing seemed to happen to them. Yours are genuine, not to mention having had sickness in your family as well.

Having occupational health on your side will help. I was seriously ill last year and having occy health back me up was a big factor in my then employer allowing me a phased return. They were saying that unless I came back full time straight away they were going to go through capability, but after the OH assessment they suddenly changed their minds and went with their recommendations.

Hopefully it’s just a procedural thing and they will see you’re not taking the proverbial.

Stage 4 meeting termination is an option, but it’s not the only option. sacking some-one ’cause they’ve been ill is always something that employers will want to avoid. Does your employer use the Bradford score, have you had meetings at stage 1-3, (presumably as your at stage 4) have they completed back to work meetings each time? They have to take into acct your circumstances.

Does your employer use the Bradford

No sane employer uses the Bradford score system.

The other thing with being represented is if the employer has failed to follow procedures to the letter, the union will be all over them and will support you if it goes tits up and you have to argue unfair or constructive dismissal.

Was supposed to have received a letter stating when the meeting was. I didn’t receive one. Manager asked me last night if I was attending.

So no representation it’s me vs them. A stage 4 means either termination of contract or if mitigating circumstances are agreed a 3 month probation to monitor my at tendency.

Since my last meeting it has been 18 weeks. It took them 15 weeks refer me to occupational health. And have been working since the last meeting and this one.

Was supposed to have received a letter stating when the meeting was. I didn’t receive one. Manager asked me last night if I was attending.

Don’t attend. They need to provide notice so that you can organise someone to go in with you.

But if you do attend and they fire you, there may be grounds for appeal – not providing notice.

15 weeks referral to occupational health won’t help their case either.

Was supposed to have received a letter stating when the meeting was. I didn’t receive one. Manager asked me last night if I was attending.

So no representation it’s me vs them. A stage 4 means either termination of contract or if mitigating circumstances are agreed a 3 month probation to monitor my at tendency.

“what meeting , I’ve had no formal request to attend a meeting so have not arranged union representation , It would be best for all involved to keep this above board , can we arrange this meeting following proper procedure so that i can have appropriate representation of my union rep”

Do you have a log of previous illness/time off before this period of disasters?

What has triggered the Stage 4 meeting? Assuming your chronology is right above you had a Stage 3 in April 2015, and since have had one bout of something like Norovirus that affected others as well as you, ie; was not made up. Other than that just positives, such as the Occy Health and your own record.

In respect of formal notice of the meeting, rather than go all legalistic on them, maybe start by noting that you have not had proper notice of the meeting or the dox they should have supplied; if the meeting is going to be nice where they congratulate you for the improvements made then fine, you’re happy to go ahead but you reserve right to stop and ask for it to be reconvened at a suitable later date if you aren’t happy.

Previous record 2008-2012 at another nhs trust and nursing home was three weeks off for Hernia surgery. Not taken as sick used my annual leave as it was planned surgery. Plus once for sickness bug when the ward was closed due to the bug.

Think the trigger points have been due to length of sickness. Over a 12 month period.

Everything is backed up by Sick notes,hospital letters and gp notes plus occupational health have a letter from my gp outlining the nature of injuries.

Funny thing is one of the consultants who dealt with my achillies is a work colleague !!!

Proper process is important and I would also echo Drac’s initial post.

there were some folk who seemed to make a career out of abusing sick leave

This. IME the NHS does appear to take a hostile attitude to high sickness rates when sending out standard letters. I left a job and one of my former staff came to see me and showed me a letter he’d got referring to his high absenteeism rate. The tonme of the letter implied he was swinging it, and that’s what I saw in it, it wasn’t just him over reacting. He had leukemia and was still adjusting to the drug routine as well as the fact that he might not be around much longer and had to tell his family about it, I felt strongly enough to write to HR about it suggesting that that kind of language might not be appropriate in encouraging someone back to work,
Anyway, I’d suggest you (try to) ignore the toe of the communication you’ve been getting and bear in mind that the NHS is extremely unlikely to bin someone because of legitimate absences.
Also, talk to the union for advice re timing and notice of meetings.

All the best with it

Blimin heck that is one long injury list.
Go to the meeting, explain the situation, don’t stress it, and carry a rabbits foot for future reference.
More seriously, sounds like you’ve had a very hard time so sending healing vibes your way.

Even though I’ve had a long list of injuries since falling in Feb I’ve felt great health wise, feeling stronger and healthy. I do have physio every month since February’s fall but I was told due to knackering my left leg in 2013 I was probably over compensating on my right leg and weakened my achillies and it just went pop.

Was supposed to have received a letter stating when the meeting was. I didn’t receive one. Manager asked me last night if I was attending.

You need adequate formal notice so you can plan what you want to say and organise formal representation.

Well meeting is at 1600 so will keep you posted.

What drac and others say

If you think there is a risk of being sacked [ clearly there is though they may not want to be doing this] and they have not followed their own procedures for the meeting them simply dont attend. You deserve to go into this in the best prepared state possible
This is a long way short of this
SEND AN E-MAIL TO THEM AND UNION NOW STATING WHEN AND HOW YOU FOUND OUT
COPY THEIR PROCEDURES INTO THE E-MAIL AND ASK FOR A NEW DATE
SEND E-MAIL TO SELF AS WELL

I cannot see how they will enforce this meeting given they have failed to follow their own rules

Best of luck it does read like bad luck and you are now back at work and doing well

Well I’ve got a three page list of bullet points on the stuff they failed to do. 2013 when I came back to work in July I was not offered a phased return I was given shorter shifts 0700 till 1300 with a 15 minute break but still 7 to 10 shifts in a row!!!

No alternative duties offered etc.

This did change when my manager not previous matron did the stage 2 meetings and also new matron.

My ward manager said I’ve mentioned to matron you’ve (me) made excellent progress since the meeting in April and have had excellent feedback from work colleagues and have built good working relationships with fellow colleagues.

Hopefully this will help sway matters.

Dont ignore the great advice offered up there. I’m sure you list of bullet points is great, but make sure you get representation and get the meeting rearranged if you werent notified.

OP, can you actually look after other people when you seem to have so much going in your own personal life?

Is that normal by comparison to someone else in your profession? Is that the norm?

I agree its much better to have someone else argue /speak on your behalf as they stay detached and are used to this sort of thing.

If they want to steam roller someone what you do is get them to turn up to a meeting without enough time to prepare.

Very lucky boy. On a sickness monitor for three months. If I have anymore between now and November I’m gone.

Fingers crossed that your luck improves and you’re able to stick to it!

Very lucky boy. On a sickness monitor for three months. If I have anymore between now and November I’m gone.

My management hat says that seems fair but also that it still sounds like it wasn’t handled well.

Show them how capable you are of doing the job I recall your other threads leading up to this and you genuinely appear to care about your job.

Yeah I really enjoy my job. It has its moments like most jobs but I’d rather be doing my job than sat on my backside not working.

Can look forward to my holiday to Rhodes end of September and my annual leave end of this month. Keep my head down and cracked on.