Regardless of whether he’s right or wrong, I see no problem with someone expressing their views. The way the country is going it’s soon going to be impossible to express any sort of opinion at all because of the now standard response of “I find that offensive”.

The bloke expressed an opinion. You may agree or you may not. You may not like his language, but equally you may enjoy the fact he’s been so blunt.

thats an interesting post mrs toast. (poet doesnt know it etc)
Tj i just put the actual figure question to the mrs as she walked in the door.
she reckons i might have to give a bit in you direction but not that much as she has just been dealing with a mother this very day who is in the poo because she has three kids that are registered as disabled
(kerching) who clearly have nowt wrong with em. 😆

Ah yes, of course. Say whatever you want. It’s the eejits who get offended who are the ones with the problem. I must say, I sort of find it strangely relieving when some Tory knob comes out with something like this. It serves to remind us all…

I see no problem with someone expressing their views.

I agree. I am quite frankly disappointed that Cameron has censured him and forced him to apologise.

What we need is politicians to be far more honest about their views and beliefs.

Specially Tory ones.

What we need is politicians to be far more honest about their views and beliefs.

Specially Tory ones.

Agreed, apart from the Tory part. I’d like to see all politicians being quite blunt/open/honest about what they think/believe.

It’s the eejits who get offended who are the ones with the problem

Genuine question. What actually happens when you get offended? Is it a physical thing? Does it make you ill? What is it about someone else expressing an opinion you don’t like that causes this “offended” thing?

“I’m offended by…” is an oft used phrase these days, so I’m curious to hear someone describe their actual physical reaction when they are “offended”.

TJ

I know people who had children specifically as it meant that they immediately got a council house, it happens, its disgusting but i would imagine it happens a lot.

In my experience (rather than what i have read) this is the case.

In Northampton where i live, if my disabled wife and i had had a child we would have been housed immediately, rather than waiting for 3 years, we would have had access to 2 bedroon houses (rather than 2 bedroom flats and bungalows which radically reduced the available properties) we considered shaving our jack russell and putting it in a pram but it kept chewing the dummy.

People have kids to get houses, it happens, quite a lot.

Nonk – so your wife who “works in family law” can tell that a child not disabled even tho they are registered as disabled. Did she do a full medical and psychological examination of them? Or merely rely on her common sense?

Says a lot.

So this parent had 3 disabled children to claim extra benefits?

Agreed, apart from the Tory part

Surely you can’t exclude the Tories from this ? 😕

Specially as they are the ones most likely to have a hidden agenda.

Which brings me neatly to………has anyone mentioned yet why this new Tory lord, Howard Flight, was deselected as a Tory MP ?

it would seem so tj yes.

ever heard of expert witness?

she just fights the case tj.

So she is an expert on child disability and can tell that they are not disabled? Full medical and psychological exam? What is her qualification to do this? Is she a consultant paediatrician?

Prey tell – whos side does she fight on? Let me guess. its not the claimants side is it.

Genuine question

No it’s not, it’s an entirely bollocks question, followed by more patronising tripe (which I could find “offensive”, but by your tone, I can tell it wouldn’t be worth it).

You think it’s fair enough, as a (prospective?…I’m not sure) peer, say, to express any view you want? Tell me, where would you draw the line at the language used. CallMeDave even seems upset by it. Just wondering where your limits are?

tj she is a family barrister, sometimes she fights on behalf of the council sometimes on behalf of the claimants. she fights with the evidence that is presented to her.

So she is an expert on child disability and can tell that they are not disabled? Full medical and psychological exam? What is her qualification to do this? Is she a consultant paediatrician?

she does non of this and i never said she did.

because she has three kids that are registered as disabled
(kerching) who clearly have nowt wrong with em

So your wife can tell the children are not disabled despite them being registered disabled? I wonder how she knew?

tj she hasnt even met the kids you moron this is the evidence she is being asked to present.

Right – so she has one side of the case, presenting evidence that they are not disabled., presumably there is evidence on the other side of tha case, the facts are to be decided in the court.

Now you don’t get registered as disabled without strong evidence.

So actually what you said was a load of baloney.

three kids that are registered as disabled
(kerching) who clearly have nowt wrong with em

Right.

maybe shall i let you know how it settles?

My wife and I both pay a lot of tax, but if/when we have kids we certainly won’t be able to afford more than 1 or 2. If nothing else we wouldn’t be able to afford a big enough house (we can’t even afford a 2/3 bed room house in Woking).

If we were on benefits and had four kids we’d get a 5 bedroom house – surely this means the incentives are misaligned?

The guy used the wrong language but his point seems fairly uncontraversal to me, same as the guy who said people had never had it better the other day – what he said was perfectly true for a lot of people. e.g. I’ve been up for redundency twice in the last three years, but I didn’t get the sack, my company now has more work than it can handle, I got a pay rise (after a two year pay freeze) and the mortgage on my flat is on a very low SVR. Most of my mates are in a simular situation – except those in the public sector – they’re just taking the pain the private sector has already suffered over the last three years.

So neither you or your wife have seen these kids, you have heard some of the evidence for one side of the case, you decide that the kids clearly have nothing wrong with them.

If we were on benefits and had four kids we’d get a 5 bedroom house – surely this means the incentives are misaligned?

Balderdash

If we were on benefits and had four kids we’d get a 5 bedroom house – surely this means the incentives are misaligned?

You’ve checked with the council on this? Would it be a five bedroom house on the street where you live now? Tell you what, why don’t you find out where it would be and do us a Location Location Location style report on the area.

oh tj come on man.

we have decided nothing i am just trying to get you to understand the stuff we see every day.

Now you don’t get registered as disabled without strong evidence.

and you dont get to court without it either.

as i said i can let you know how it pans out 🙄

Edric64. Without counting, that’s about your tenth (poor) effort at a troll. Aren’t you getting tired of if yet?

I’m not trolling

bbc are stirring a bit but its indicative of out of touch mps in general
funny to see pickles saying how outraged he was – anyone else remember him on question time at the height pf the expenses scandal telling a newcastle audiece mps needed a 2nd home in london because they had to get from the outskirts to westminster for 8-30am

same old torys

Specially as they are the ones most likely to have a hidden agenda.

Despite Dave’s protestations, we all know what the tories are about. New Labour however…

There were several families including recent immigrants being housed in very upmarket houses at a bloody fortune to the nation .What’s wrong with being pissed off by that when people who were born here and in genuine need have been waiting for years?

Edric 64 – Member

Why do you see benefit claimants renting huge houses in London at thousands a months then and it’s usually bloody immigrants

HOUSE!

Surely you can’t exclude the Tories from this ?

I wasn’t. I was meaning all politicians, Tories included. I love when old fashioned Tories come out with stuff like this. Equally I love when old fashioned Labour politicians come out with some of their stuff. It’s the bland “I want to please everyone” types I can’t be bothered with.

LOL@ Lifer.

Tj

I am awaiting your response on my point that as a housing benefit claimant i am disadvantaged by not having children?

Well?

You’ve checked with the council on this? Would it be a five bedroom house on the street where you live now? Tell you what, why don’t you find out where it would be and do us a Location Location Location style report on the area.

Well according this:
http://www.thesite.org/homelawandmoney/money/benefitsandtax/housingbenefit

This:
http://www.woking.gov.uk/housing

And a bunch of other sites it seems to say that if I could claim housing benefit up to the total value of my rent. If I had four kids, and a five bedroom house, that’s the rent that would be paid (up to 30th percentile of local rents). As for whether it’d pay for a house in the street I live, then I’m sure it would as I live in the crappy bit of woking as I can’t afford the nice bit…

difficult one that tim i think he will just ignore you.

Well I suggest you get yourself and the missus made redundant and start breeding then if you think it might get you a better life.

😆

But seriously, what way are you disadvantaged?

*Oops…edited. Misunderstood nonk’s post.*

In fairness, Ewan does make a reasonable point. It’s the “We’d be better off on benefits with a litter of kids” sentiment that goes with his first point that I disagree with.

Tim – I don’t understand how you are disadvantaged. You get offered an appropriate property to your needs. I get offered **** all. Am I disadvantaged?
Why do you want a property greater than your needs? properties aere in short suply since the sell off of council houses so must be allocated on a basis of need.

Ewan – not the same thing at all.

If you have the house, lose you job then you might get the benefit, you have no right to a house of that size. Waht you quote does not say

If we were on benefits and had four kids we’d get a 5 bedroom house

No it’s not, it’s an entirely bollocks question,

I don’t care whether you believe me or not, but it was a genuine question. I’m curious as to why people find some things offensive, and exactly what happens when they get offended. I’m more interested in the freedom of speech being maintained than anything else.

CallMeDave even seems upset by it.

I suspect he isn’t, however in todays political climate he has to be seen to be offended by it.

Tell me, where would you draw the line at the language used.

Difficult one, and really only answerable on a case by case basis. However if I was asked to give a rough definition I’d say that telling a blatant untruth is unacceptable (eg saying that someone stole something when they clearly didn’t) but that expressing an opinion, however much some people dislike it, is acceptable.

For example, you are free to dismiss my opinions as “tripe” and “patronising”. I’d prefer it if you were able to debate on a more mature level, but more importantly I’m pleased that you’re able to express your opinion.

i am somewhat pants at making myself understood though i will give you that much.

He can say what he likes. However it is clearly inappropriate for some things to be said by our representatives.

Therefore he has a choice – tone down his comments or leave the government.

Would it be acceptable for him to say ” send all teh fuzzy wuzzies home” ?