Case in point for this shop is really internet sales have been the biggest impact for him! Crc doing there parts sales on Shimano and sram cheaper than they buy them in at, then of cause there bike sales he stocks cube crc buy last years left ove cubes and sell them 25% cheaper.
So many people come through spend time with him trying road bikes etc and then a couple of weeks later you see them ride past on a new bike. Seems weird to me to not even ask the shop owner if they can match or near as dame it match a price! Better to make some thing than nothing. Sadly though as mentioned as sales went down so has the shop not for want of trying though I’ll give him that.
Regards repairs and servicing I think it would really impact older people who still ride there bikes, he looks after a lot of those. But he is keeping a work shop service going in the same building as he owns.

I agree servicing forks might be a bit tricky for some. But for the lbs to just pass it on to tft or mojo us silly and a bit lazy, and it’s a loss of potential profit. Get off your fat entitled arse and learn how to do it yourself. Adapt or die

. But for the lbs to just pass it on to tft or mojo us silly and a bit lazy,

Most shops will do a normal service though

Get off your fat entitled arse and learn how to do it yourself.

You read my post though didn’t you, for me it’s got nothing to do with a fat entitles arse but more that I have no space to do it. Plenty of people are like that. Got mates who work damm hard and long hours – they like to ride their bikes so they pay for a professional mechanic to sort their bikes out. Dropping off on the way to work and picking up at some point.

If we are not careful the awesome new world will require all mountain bikers to own a massive tool kit, remember to order spares so that it can be posted out and have workshop space allotted to the various jobs while we rely on people vague inside leg measurements online to work out if a bike will fit us

bencooper – Member
…I’ve been saying on trade forums for, well, forever that bike shops need to stop marketing to cyclists…

Very true. I read something similar in a discussion in a 1930s magazine about the threat of mail order cheap bikes.

@mikewsmith – i meant the lbs, not you! obviously, some people won’t be comfortable taking on the slightly trickier jobs and so taking it to a professional is the right thing to do. but for a lbs to send forks off a customers bike to get serviced seems a bit silly, to me.

Same thing was happening in the scuba diving world years ago, people buying kit off the web rather than whatever their LDS had sat in stock. Lots of LDS couldn’t compete and shut down. The big difference there is that most people don’t have a compressor at home so need to get gas from somewhere. The tagline used on the forums was “you can’t get gas from the web” – sound familiar?

Those that survived have adapted, catering to narrower markets with the kit while offering training, trips, cylinder testing etc. The Internet is still selling kit, many LDS are still flourishing, people are still going diving (though I think numbers have dropped due to other reasons).

The most successful chain of stores around here have prominently position shops, they are well fitted, looking modern and well stocked. They don’t really compete on price but give club discounts so aren’t far off on everything except cassettes.
There market is non cyclist reasonably well off types who want a couple hybrids or bikes for the kids who they give the confidence they’ll get good quality bikes well set up and decent advice and affluent middle age types with Audis buying expensive bikes and parts. They also run a tight workshop and are probably the only place I would let work on a bike of mine. As an example they made some mods to my daughters bike and care taken in with the finish was evident something that hasn’t been my experience with other shops.

So basically they are good at selling, good at service and good at running a business, so are making money.

A massive toolkit to fix and maintain mountain bikes? Come on, the vast majority of things can be fixed/replaced with a small amount of tools stored in a Stanley fatmax toolbox or similar. Add a workstand and there is nothing much you can’t do in your living room on a piece of protective flooring to save any mess. LBS workshops are overselling themselves a bit here.

I suppose all those who bemoan the loss of their LBS due to the ‘internet’ also make a point of using their local greengrocers, butchers, ironmongers, milkmen, blacksmith, cobbler, bank, post office and everything else thats slowly disappearing.

I suppose all those who bemoan the loss of their LBS due to the ‘internet’ also make a point of using their local greengrocers, butchers, ironmongers, milkmen, blacksmith, cobbler, bank, post office and everything else thats slowly disappearing.

I do most of my shopping locally…

Bike tools needed
4 or 5 different BB tools
Allen Keys (t handles)
Torx Keys (up to 4 now I think) t handles
Variety of Hammers, different sets of seal tools for the different forks I have
Bearing Pullers and presses
That nice handy thread chaser for when you damage your BB threads
set of hope hub bearing tools
set of good screwdrivers
magnetic thingy
stuff for doing internal cable runs
that good hanger tool
headset press

going to be a bigger box… that’s just the basic stuff like I say when it’s DIY or nothing it’s a bit more.

even as a DIYist theres still tools i find i need for bikes today i didnt need 10 years ago when i amassed most of my tools using them to make $$$

multi meter and soldering iron to name a couple.

Tbh i think theres a market for shops like bens where problem solving is king. IE i want a bracket to mount XYZ there ….

and the shop has on site facilitys to knock up a mount and a way to mount it .

For run of the mill bolting stuff together – not so much HOW ever as i said earlier – the number of experianced long term riders – other wise sensible people ive had come to me with such things as X9 shifter xt rear mech – it doesnt work why ? says that the home mech will never be the norm – its just the STW way.

it doesnt work why ? says that the home mech will never be the norm – its just the STW way.

reading some of the asking for help threads in here I’d not say the general STW level is that high some days 😉

All depends how many bikes you have. I just have one and would never take it a shop.

Bike tools needed, ones that I can remember using;

Allen keys
Phillips screwdriver
hammer
few spanners
1 external bb tool
Cassette removal tool
Chainwhip

Would all fit in a small box if I didn’t happen to have a garage.

base kit but leaves a lot missing

Just about covers the basics 😉 there is a big difference between half arsed make do tools and doing stuff right. Things like a steerer/post cutting guide make a huge difference, add in a nice set of files for tidying up and maybe a nice vice

The problem with not marketing your LBS to cyclists is how to market yourself to non-cyclists without scaring them away.

A discussion I was having with someone yesterday when they asked if their LBS had quoted them a fair price (they don’t ride much and their bike is worth maybe £175 as is).

It needed a new tyre, 4 brake blocks, chain, cassette, gear cables and outers, BB and a good lubing.

As I added up the prices (CRC) then thought how long it would take me @10 p/h I was fractionally cheaper than the shop. Of course they can buy it cheaper and their mechanic works faster than me (plus my cycle maintenance is always when the children are asleep and I can open a beer). Of course the LBS has many other costs to include. I talked my friend around but being told that what he saw as a little work was a good percentage of the cost of the bike was hard for him to swallow.

If he’d gone in with a £75 bike then the cost of the repairs and new components would have been similar. I wonder if new (shit) bikes are simply too cheap to give LBSs enough work.

what job on a mtb can a reasonably adept person not do apart from regas a shock?

Setup a front mech? 😀

if the LBS sends the specialist stuff like forks to the likes of Mojo … then cut out the middle man and send them there yourself.

Your assuming they know how to remove them, plenty don’t know how to adjust a headset correctly.

The vast majority of cyclists aren’t adept IME!

Someone not having the time (or space) to fix their bike vs saying they can’t because it’s akin to brain surgery are very different arguments.

One is absolutely fair enough and the other is nonsense that won’t help the bike shop’s cause.

Riders bring in bikes & say “my bottle won’t work” the mechanic then puts the bottle cage the right way up for them. Goodness knows how they’d cope with changing the bearings in a press fit BB

So if the average punter is so obviously useless, then why are bike shops struggling due to the internet? Surely these same useless punters aren’t buying stuff online if they are that incapable? Me thinks there is some exaggerating going on.

As for ‘brain surgery’ mboy, really?

It’s a sad sad day when an obvious joke goes over people’s heads on STW!!! 🙄

Bencooper and trail_rat have hit the nails squarely on the head. Those arguing that people are lazy for not servicing their own suspension just don’t get it at all! The likes of Fox, you have to go on a week long course these days to be accredited to service Fox forks and shocks, and then you have to buy a plethora of specific tools and spare parts for every eventuality. It’s really not worth it for most LBS’. Rockshox and other makes are less of a palaver, but if someone comes to me with a nearly new Fox36 worth the best part of £1k wanting it serviced, ill send it to the specialists who have spent the time and effort learning that particular product inside out. I’m busy enough as it is without having to go away on a course to become accredited and then spend loads on the correct tools and spares just for one make of suspension… (This is more of a dig at Fox than anything else in case you hadn’t guessed!).

A shop will have far more tools than most home mechanics partly because they have to cover everything from a old aw 3 speed hub through to di2 stuff

I have a big pile of tools just for freewheels cassettes and bottom brackets

Most cycle stuff is easy if your mechanicly minded but many people are not

It’s a mixture of issue. There were a number of bikes shops near to me. One was purely a family bike shop, flogging 4 bikes to A family and maybe getting a service..

The other bike shop was for proper mountain bikers, with lots of bling and higher prices. Both of which were in the next town. Fast forward to today. Both shops are still there. Family bike shop has moved and expanded their range, but still a family bike shop. The mountain bike shop has now diversified to include tri stuff and more blin catering for mid life crisis too much cash type purchase.

However there a re now a clutch of trendy bike shops, including an ebike store. Most interestingly there is a shop which is also a cafe. I think that Th cafe/shop/bike shop lbs has hit the nail on the head, decent customer service workshop seems decent and busy and a nice place to be. As has been mentioned lbs need to find a niche, offering something more than just a bike shop.

Could just be I’m easily swayed by the fact I can usually get something done on my bike whilst I have a bit of cake and then the work is finished.

Similarly the issue with some bike shops is their focus to customer service is non existent, due to being a sole distributor or just being arrogant ****s. I think what a lot of people do is look up how to do the job online and aren’t willing to pay for “a simple” job but fail to appreciate the skill behind the work carried out. Or are just intimidated by going into a lbs and getting ripped off (bit like going the reputation mechanics got). The other thing is some people just are of the option that it’s just a bike.

Waffle over.

Mikewsmith – that kit includes head tube reamers and a headset press, but I read on an Internet forum somewhere that reaming head tubes was a waste of time and you don’t need a headset press, you can just use a rubber mallet 😉

no no no ben you just cut a slot in the cup dont you ?

Back to blazing saddles, obviously no one sems to know the real reason why they are closing but there does seem to be a lot of bike shops around these parts. Ive often wondered how they all make a living. Im guessing it was just enivitable that one of them would eventually throw in the towel. From shoreham to littlehampton ,say 10 miles along the coast, I think there are 7 bike shops that I would say are stw type bike shops, and 4 general family type shops, plus 3 halfords. Thats a lot of bike business required. Simple case of a lot local competition.

holmes81 – Member
…I think what a lot of people do is look up how to do the job online and aren’t willing to pay for “a simple” job but fail to appreciate the skill behind the work carried out….

Most bike jobs consist of a bit of knowledge that takes a few minutes to acquire. The rest of it is skill, and that takes time and mistakes to acquire.

Some customers don’t realise the difference between skill and knowledge.

(If you need an example, I know the fingering for the various notes and chords on a guitar, but play it? Pfhttt! 🙂 )

@km there isn’t a snowballs chance in hell I would fix my bike in the living room with a floor covering. Zero. Even if I thought it was a good idea the Mrs will quite rightly never agree.

Once again I find it very interesting that folk on here are all for buying bits off the internet and fixing their own bikes and sod the LBS, yet when I argue politics I am a right wing nut job against the STW lefty massive. The tax-dodging box-shifting zero value-add internet is killing LBS and local employment.

Epicyclo true, the major point I was trying to make, is some people aren’t happy paying the going rate, for a “simple” job.

35 years ago, before mountain bikes came onto the scene, racing and touring cycling were relatively niche activities, historically enjoyed by the less well off. The cycle shops and the choice and quality of equipment that existed then reflected that.

Since then there has been a general rise in living standards and disposable discretionary income in the UK and the rest of the developed world, and that has funded a dramatic growth in cycling as a leisure activity, including the development of bikes and components that perform much better than what had previously been available, but which often require much more maintenance and have shorter life spans.

Many of the bikes shops now closing or under threat, did not exist before mountain bikes, and largely came into being to service that change and growth in the market in the 1980s/1990s and since.

It’s understandable that those of us who have got into cycling during the same period are comfortable with the status quo and do not want to see their current local shop close, but it’s probably unrealistic. Just as those small dingy bike shops which served touring, racing and utiity cyclists in the 1970s either closed or had to reinvent themselves when mountain bikes came onto the scene, cycle shops and their owners are now having to consider changing their business models to take account of the internet retailers.

Some people will prefer to undertake as much of their own maintenance as possible and acquire the necessary tools, others prefer to have the convenience and reliability of a good LBS that will do it all for them. I guess it will be the ratio of the former to the latter – together with the impact of internet sales – that will determine the viability of the current incarnation of the ‘traditional’ bike shop.

PS Jambalaya, I was surprised by your comments:

Internet sellers don’t pay high street business rates or for the most part UK tax and ni for employees. That IMO is the prime reason they sell products for less. If there are less businesses we will all have to pay that tax instead and/or pay the unemployment benefits of the people no longer in work.

I have posted before I’d stick 15-25% extra tax on stuff bought online.

Wiggle and CRC are UK based and pay UK taxes as far as I am aware. It seems to me that their existence reflects in economic terms a very efficient market: with a small number of employees and low overheads for premises, they are able to deliver large quantities of a wide choice of goods to customers very quickly at low prices. Instead of letting the market decide and finding its own balance between internet retailers and LBS, you want to intervene and make the internet retailers less competitive by introducing a special tax targeted just at them, the effect of which will be that all of us will be paying higher prices. You are effectively saying that inefficient businesses should be maintained by state intervention requiring all of us to pay higher prices, in order to keep people in employment, rather than letting the market find its own level. As you say, that’s hardly the viewpoint of a right-wing nut job.

With regard to the “box-shifting zero value-add internet”, bikes and parts are commodities, and the internet retailers are better at selling them than the average LBS. If the other activities performed by bike shops add value, then that value should be properly priced and charged for, rather than subsidised by the sale of bikes and parts. That may mean you have to pay more for servicing and maintenance.

The tax-dodging box-shifting zero value-add internet is killing LBS and local employment.

Sounds a bit luddite to me, you will be burning down the internet warehouses soon.

Times change, things move on. If people don’t have a use for bike shops they don’t have a use for bike shops.
Although looking at this thread there is a need for bike shops for maintenance, repair, fitting etc,. for those that don’t trip up on their shoelaces on the way to the shop. That is where the business and employment will be, and arguably the job is better (I would rather be fitting, fixing than taking something off a shelf and putting it in a bag)

Jamba, does your web tax also apply to insurance, banking, ultilities, holidays, food, books, tv’s, shoes, clothing, music, games and on and on with everything else people like to buy online? And when you’ve increased the cost of living by 25% what are you going to do with the money, give to some feckless chancer who thought he could make a living out his hobby but turned out he was shit at business and had a shop nobody wanted? Just so he can stand there with an empty shop?

You should apply for a job in the Greek government.

Wiggle and CRC are UK based and pay UK taxes as far as I am aware. It seems to me that their existence reflects in economic terms a very efficient market: with a small number of employees and low overheads for premises, they are able to deliver large quantities of a wide choice of goods to customers very quickly at low prices

Whilst I don’t doubt that part of this statement is true, having worked as a Continous Improvement engineer in large scale box shifting logistics in a previous role, I know the margin for error is very tight and big warehouses need to be very efficient to make money at the margins they operate at, but… Wiggle is a Tax write off for a Venture Capitalist firm, and now CRC is under the same banner! I couldn’t tell you how much tax the 2 companies are paying, but given the nature of their ownership, it’s a LOT less than it should be by rights!

doesnt just apply to bikes that though

Epicyclo true, the major point I was trying to make, is some people aren’t happy paying the going rate, for a “simple” job.

case in point the “simple electricians thread this morning” “can i stick this wire into here ? – what i read was – i dont know enough about this to even phrase the question right with relevent information.

but its a simple job.

sure it is for a spark.

no no no ben you just cut a slot in the cup dont you ?

Speaking of which, can anyone spot what’s wrong with this crown race?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291665699234

i bet he was “an engineer ken like”

Notchy steering on those little wheels – must have scared the bejesus out of him.

I couldn’t tell you how much tax the 2 companies are paying, but given the nature of their ownership, it’s a LOT less than it should be

You don’t know how much they are paying, but you know it’s less than it should be. How does that work?

Speaking of which, can anyone spot what’s wrong with this crown race?

is that so you can put spare balls in?

These other shops that appear to be thriving, I suggest you take a look at their accounts on companies house and see if any are making money as those I have looked at including some mentioned earlier in this threads such as primera are losing money atm.
Most retail these days is at best running on about 2% net profit margin, once you take into account rising rents and upwards pressure on wages from national living wage over the next few years most bike shops will be facing losing money. Many, many bike shops will be closing in the next few years. Sales of bikes and parts and accessories have always subsidised workshops so hourly rates will have to increase significantly to be the core of a sustainable business. Cycling is very seasonal so unless it is a heavy commuter area such as London or Brighton etc there won’t be enough turnover several months of the year to pay the bills. Many bikes are very cheap and parts cheap too so if Labour rates go too high in comparison people will just replace rather than repair.
We will have fewer shops, fewer clubs, fewer events and fewer cyclists.
We will have more small repair only businesses that are possibly seasonal or even part time so a reduction in convenience for many people.

The standard of repair work is often not good enough as the pay is so bad in the trade. Anyone decent with a brain and experience will leave the trade when they need to earn more I.e. they need to get their own house or start a family, then all that experience is lost.

Shops feel they cannot charge more than their local competitors even if they are better as people just look at the bottom line assuming the quality of work will be the same everywhere.

With the decline in the number of shops you can bet money that the mail order outfits will feel able to increase their margins as customers have nowhere local to go. Then they will reduce their range, introduce even more sub par own brand kit.

Speaking of which, can anyone spot what’s wrong with this crown race?

I hear indexed steering is all the rage in the far east right now, and it’s set to be the next big thing over here any time soon! 😆

What’s to stop ANYONE selling online?