I also doubt stumpyjon's "safety pyramid concept" which presumably suggests that kids are almost dying in schools on a regular basis.

Not my pyramid, it's quite widely used in H & S circles. The idea is that you actually take the near misses seriously, investigate them, remove or reduce the likelyhood of a near miss and ultimately reduce the number of serious or fatal accidents. Same applies in this case which a lot of people are missing. If you challenge the poor behaviour from teachers across the board when it's found you may actually prevent a death. Doing nothing until some poor kid dies is a bit like bolting the stable door after you've shot the horse. Completely pointless because it's going to happen again at some point unless you do something very differently.

As for poor parents, yep there's probably loads, different issue though i many respects, teachers and other people who get paid to look after kids should aspire to more professional standards.

Those folk that are condemming "the system" and the folk that work in it – have you ever had to take responsibility for other people? Its both a heavy load and its actually very difficult to get right 100% of the time

I bet none of you have ever been in that position of responsibility

Stumpyjohn is right – I have heard the concept before and thats why "near misses" should be reported and investigated

It's Bird's Triangle – apparently
1 Serious or disabling injury
10 Minor (First Aid)
30 Damage
600 Near Miss

I'd put making a decision to ignore an asthmatic kid struggling for breath in the same league as deciding to drink a few bottles of booze and go for a drive.

Maybe no-one will get hurt…

TandemJeremy – Member
Those folk that are condemming "the system" and the folk that work in it – have you ever had to take responsibility for other people? Its both a heavy load and its actually very difficult to get right 100% of the time
…………………………………………………..
And they get paid for the responsibility,and know what the job entails before they take the first pay check.

All accidents have a cause,and should be investigated,and action taken to stop it happening again.

all accidents have a cause,and should be investigated,and action taken to stop it happening again

every action should be stamped, double stamped and ticked off and marked and assessed and marked and stamped and recorded and judged and stamped and only then can we go to bed before we get up and start stamping and marking and assessing and judging and recording and questioning and NEVER GET ANYTHING **** DONE AND DIE SAD AND BORED AND DULL AND ALONE

johnners – Member

You've cast your net wide there, and I don't see what any of those has to do with the case of the boy with asthma.

That's because project sees all public sector workers as one single entity.

And he appears to be on a personal crusade against them – judging by his recent posts. In which his rants have ranged from demanding that schools teachers who's schools have had to close during the freeze, get out and clear the snow from his street to, "Social workers are probably the most useless and self promoting people ever,they have no concept of people as people"

So yeah, if he can find the odd example of where something has gone drastically wrong, he will condemn them all.

.

The idea is that you actually take the near misses seriously……

Absolutely. Because as you point out on the back if this tragic incident, there will have been many "near misses"……….all of those occasions in which a child almost died of an asthma attack, had it not been for the fact that the teachers called an ambulance.

And as you say, "other teachers should consider themselves lucky it wasn't them and look at their own behaviour."

……lucky indeed, that they called an ambulance. And I do hope they take a good hard look at their own behaviour.

And he (project) appears to be on a personal crusade against them

You have to hope his efforts extend beyond something as futile as just ranting about it on a biking forum. This said, everytime he does it the usual suspects all wade in, so in terms of forum activity he helps keep things rolling along.

the usual suspects all wade in

But of course………where's the fun in ignoring a Daily Mail fuelled debate ? 😕

I suspect (no evidence, just suspect) more children die from asthma attacks in the one to one care of their parents than die in the care of schools. Sometimes shit just happens and sometimes people screw up, or make bad decisions, or make good decisions but then the circumstances change and with hindsight they should have reviewed or made different decisions, or make bad decisions but get away with it.
Most of the time though I think there is more to gain by putting your efforts into getting your own house in order than into condemning others for their failings, no witch hunt required, the case is being dealt with by those who are responsible for dealing with it, the papers have made their profit from the death of a child maintaining or boosting their circulation (sorry about that odd point, but any kind of profit from misery pisses me off, even when under the guise of reporting).

Teachers don't kill people, people do! (thank you G.L.C.)
Nobody is perfect and unfortunately, sometimes tragically, mistakes do happen despite the best attempts to avoid them.

(and no, I don't think they should be let off in any way and yes, I am a teacher).

So Project – I ask you again as you are so quick to condemn others – have you ever been in the position of being responsible for others in this way? Do you understand deep in your heart what a burden it can be?

I have made mistakes – fortunately none of those have resulted in avoidable death – but I live with this everyday I am at work, I make a mistake someone could die.

I live with the dread deep in my soul that the near misses I have been responsible for could have lead to death – do you? what happens when you make a mistake at work?

So please – answer the question – or shut up

Wow! we start with a teacher who made a fatal mistake and end up drawing comparisons with the world's greatest serial killer.. And I'm loosing(sic) the plot? Maybe so, but I still maintain some essence of rational perspective.

I feel really sorry for the teachers involved, as well as the parents and the poor kid. But I think there is a huge amount of hot air spouted on here regarding what teachers are actually able to do. Phone 999? In the middle of a class that you can't leave? If we called 999 every time a child said I feel sick/ ill/ it's too hot in here etc we'd have an ambulance parked at the gate.

Teachers have to make a series of choices, day in, day out, regarding the safety of the kids in their care, of which there are usually 30. They are criticised if they over react they are criticised if they react too mildly.

<unsubstantiated anecdote alert>

I've been in the situation with a kid who had a fit, when I phoned home to let her mum know that we'd called an ambulance and she was on her way to hospital she asked me if I could go with her cos she was still in her pyjamas.

The idea is that you actually take the near misses seriously……

Absolutely. Because as you point out on the back if this tragic incident, there will have been many "near misses"……….all of those occasions in which a child almost died of an asthma attack, had it not been for the fact that the teachers called an ambulance.

That's showing that you don't understand the concept of a near miss. A near miss is when a kid gets left in the corridor but luckily gets over the asthma attack by themselves, what you've described is a person doing their job well. The near miss is not related to the asthma, it's related to the action taken in reponse to the asthma.

A near miss is when a kid gets left in the corridor but luckily gets over the asthma attack by themselves………… The near miss is not related to the asthma, it's related to the action taken in reponse to the asthma.

I understand perfectly what a near miss is. Although I'm not sure that you do. A kid who gets over an asthma attack by themselves, is not a near miss. It is a perfectly normal occurrence.

But I think there is a huge amount of hot air spouted on here regarding what teachers are actually able to do. Phone 999? In the middle of a class that you can't leave?

No. Obviously it is much better to not to leave the class unsupervised, if that is your priority. It's certainly one way of reducing class numbers if one happens to 'pop-off' during a lesson.

You're a teacher? have you ever heard of common sense, or even a mobile phone if you presence is so vital? And as for your anecdote, how is that relevant to what is being discussed here. 🙄

And as for your anecdote, how is that relevant to what is being discussed here.

I think Monkeeknutz might have been trying give an example of where a parent appeared less concerned about their child's' medical condition, than the teacher.

But that's just a guess, and I might have got it wrong.

Ernie – probably, but the 'unsubstantiated anecdote' was told in the first person. Was he also trying to insinuate that because she was in her pyjamas she must be a bad parent? Would it have occurred to him that she may have been on night shift and wanted to be accompanied because she was upset?

I probably jumped on it because I am sick and bloody tired of teachers bleating about how hard a job they have and the lack of common sense evident in the post. 😉