http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23294760,

nobody was hurt, the fire is out, and yet loads of expensive fire engines and firemen are just standing around looking at it, when people are waiting to go on holiday, or just go home.Huge waits now to fly anywhere and huge delays on incoming flights.
Reason being heathrow is closed as there are no firemen available in case of another fire,on another plane you couldnt make it up could you.

Anyone here have shares in Boeing? The last thing they needed was another Dreamliner fire.

The thing is lithium ion batteries areused in a lot of stuff,

Sorry I missed the bit in the report where it said “… firemen are just standing around looking at it…” and the implication that they were overawed at seeing a plane or a fire and were not there for a valid reason

The fire is out, so no need for the huge amount of resourses to stand idle just waiting and looking, get back to base and allow the airport to open, if it goes up again , respond again and squirt some more foam at it,

EASY.

Open now! was closed for about an hour, big delays though!

They must of read Project’s advice.

Where are all the firewomen?

firemen are just standing around looking at it…” and the implication that they were overawed at seeing a plane or a fire

“Wait, THAT’S a fire? Oh man, now you now tell me. Er… how much notice do I have to give if I want to leave the job?”

ouch, that’s gonna cost ’em.

Should have waited for the A350 😀

thehillsofsomerset – Member
Open now! was closed for about an hour, big delays though!

Drac – Moderator
They must of read Project’s advice.

Theey where most probably all looking at Singletrack for advice on what to do, lots of experts on here. 😯

Always pleased to help the emergency services……

Just by way of explanation the fire crews standing round are LFB and they have absolutely no bearing on operations at Heathrow.

The CAA sets minimum standards of fire cover these include appliances and media delivery so the airport appliances you can see standing by are what’s affecting operations, you can be fairly sure that as soon as they are replenished with Foam, water, restowed and the aircraft is safe then they will be available, as they are employed by the same people who operate the airport they have a vested interest in opening the runways again.

Hope that helps

Oi Pikey – be off with your ‘knowledge’ and your ‘common sense’.

There’s no place for it in a thread like this.

The CAA sets minimum standards of fire cover these include appliances and media delivery so the airport appliances you can see standing by are what’s affecting operations, you can be fairly sure that as soon as they are replenished with Foam, water, restowed and the aircraft is safe then they will be available, as they are employed by the same people who operate the airport they have a vested interest in opening the runways again

the media have just said that as well, proves they rely on singletrack experts as well.

Now onto the tragic train crash in Paris.

So, Project, what was your point??

if it goes up again , respond again and squirt some more foam at it

EASY.

In times of crises those with a natural sense of authority step up to provide that simple commonsense based leadership which is so vital.

Lithium Ion batteries are indeed in a lot of things and sometimes go up in smoke (search Google for numerous laptop fires, mobiles exploding in people’s pockets etc).

The issue with the Dreamliner is its a) using Li-ion batteries in a particularly high power density in a paritcularly small space to get the weight / power they need for aircraft use and b) the Dreamliner is an aircraft and onboard electrical fires are particularly inconvenient.

Cheers

Danny B

So, Project, what was your point??

To prove that there is no need to have any understanding of a subject to have an opinion on it. 🙂

😆

Is it just electrical fires that are inconvenient or is it all fires? I’ve always thought a plane would benefit from a nice wood burning stove to give a feature focal point.

no reason a dreamliner or any other aircraft couldnt have a log burner.. however i suspect the draw from the flue whilst at altitude may be a little excesive and thus make fuel consumption high. the need to ask every passenger to bring a log in thier hand luggage may prove too much

avdave2 – Member

To prove that there is no need to have any understanding of a subject to have an opinion on it

As long as you don’t mind someone who does coming along, picking up your opinion, and booting it onto the slates anyway

Happy to be told otherwise, but from what I’ve read about the Dreamliner battery fires, they don’t seem to have established a true root cause (eg dodgy equipment, dodgy installation or use) and thus any ‘fix’ they’ve put in place is a little doubtful.

further down in the same story

Meanwhile, Thomson Airways said one of its Dreamliners travelling to Florida returned to Manchester Airport as a precautionary measure, not connected to the Heathrow fire.

Thomson, which became the first British carrier to operate the aircraft earlier this week, and is taking delivery of eight of the planes, said the plane had “experienced a technical issue”.

would rate that as pretty unusual, not taking off yes, returning after take off?? unless someone can tell me otherwise

I’m late to the party and have nothing to add apart from a 🙄 at the moderator’s English.

would rate that as pretty unusual, not taking off yes, returning after take off?? unless someone can tell me otherwise

Happened twice to me over the years. Both on the same airline. One was a smell of smoke in the cockpit, and one was a potentially unsealed door.

@vdubber – no need to be corrected. They haven’t established the root cause and Boeing have admitted they may never do so.

They changed the configuration of the Li-ion batteries in the hope it has solved the process, went through various tests and the FAA were satisfied that the plane was good to go.

If this proves to be another battery issue then the consequences for Boeing could be severe (just look at their share price yesterday).

Airbus were going to use similar Li-ion technology in the A350 but have since changed their minds.

Re: my comment on electrical fires – yes, all fires on board are bad news but electrical ones particularly so and aircraft these days are 100% reliant on the computer systems and electricals working properly.

Cheers

Danny B

The Li-Ion batteries that power my quadrocopters come with all sorts of dire warnings about always having buckets of sand nearby when charging them, never leaving them alone while charging.

Do you reckon Dreamliners come with the same sort of warnings? Maybe that’s the problem, someone put the battery on charge and wandered off for a brew.

There, who needs all those expensive firemenpeople and investigations, I think between me, project and dannybgoode we’ve just solved it all.
/stwexpert

Should I be worried about charging my bike lights overnight?

I heard they bought the batteries & chargers from DealExtreme.

antigee – nope, fairly normal. The plane will be able to get there safely, but may not be able to come home without the problem fixed. If all your engineers are in the UK and you just sub-contract out the work for the daily checks abroad, you have a plane stranded 5000 miles away from base.

takisawa2 – Member
I heard they bought the batteries & chargers from DealExtreme.

hehe

‘Mr Boeing’ is going to be writing a pretty scathing review of them on the DX site!

I havent paid much attention to the battery issue tbh but i believe the ‘fix’ has been to change the casing and add/improve the exhaust out of the sealed enclosure through the bottom of the plane. Having seen RC car lithium batteries go up in flames they are like a mini jet engine though but I’m not sure the battery technology is the same.

I wonder if they were charging off the APU? It could be an electronics failure on the charging circuit frying and not the batteries or the batteries themselves going pop due to an electronics problem. Will wait and see what they come up with I guess.

From what my pilot buddy said they’ve basically put the batteries (of which there are many) into sealed containers which are exhausted (sic) out.

So if/when* they set on fire they should just burn out without impacting the plane…

* delete as appropriate

maybe they should mount them in external fuel tanks so they can jettison them from the plane in the even of a fire and have a couple of sets on each side!

Hopefully discrete batteries will be replaced eventually with energy storing composite structure where the resin and carbon fibres form a low power density array of batteries with almost zero (allowing for a slight increase in material due to reduced mechanical performance) weight penalty.

Could also apply it to cars and have a 2 ton hybrid landrover made from energy storing composite.

From what my pilot buddy said they’ve basically put the batteries (of which there are many) into sealed containers which are exhausted (sic) out.

Yup, reinforced stainless canisters I believe. I’ve seen electric bike batteries get entertainingly burny when the battery management system fails.

would rate that as pretty unusual, not taking off yes, returning after take off?? unless someone can tell me otherwise

I’ve had it when the air pressurisation system failed on takeoff – we ended up flying from Glasgow to Edinburgh at about 200 feet, which was fun 😉

And if the subject wasn’t so sad, this would be hilarious. Check this out:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=563_1373664708