Just asking out of interest really. Got knocked off my bike this morning, not hurt and sorted out amicably but wondering where the STW collective would aportion blame? I’ve had a few car incidents in my time, 2 my fault, 4 the other guy’s fault. How would we judge this one?
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I’m heading downhill, single carrige way urban A road, on the way to work. There is a row of stationary traffic, half a dozen cars. I know there is a right turn and assume the front car wants to turn right. I pull out to overtake the line, that is the case, I can see his indicator. The car coming up the hill turns to my right, his left, and is follwed by the car at the front of the line. I look along the line, no more cars signaling and the lane coming up the hill towards me is clear so I continue to overtake the stationary traffic as they begin to move. I’ve slowed to about 25mph, it’s usually a 40mph hill (yes, I know it’s a 30 zone but today I was well under that)
The car now at the front turns right without indictating. I see him doing this but it’s too late. I brake heavily and turn, hitting him side on with my left shoulder and thigh at about 15mph. I hit the deck.
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No serious harm done, I have a lightly sore shoulder and he has a wing mirror dangling by a wire and a big scratch. He stops to check I am OK, and we agree to call it quits and go our separate ways.
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He says I was overtaking somewhere I shouldn’t.
I say he should he have signalled. And should have checked his mirror, I was in an obvious place, middle of the other lane wearing a bright yellow waterproof.
What’s the view on this? Just out interest, I’m not going to take it any further.
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https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=somerby+hill+grantham&hl=en&ll=52.902328,-0.6003&spn=0.000052,0.038409&hnear=Somerby+Hill,+Grantham,+United+Kingdom&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=52.902321,-0.625743&panoid=tWl2ltggbZJPtJf0Olymiw&cbp=12,303.89,,0,7.39 My view (goole earth pic, no helmet cam) I want to go straight on, he wants to turn right.

not sure tbh on that, wonder what his response would have been if it had been a copper he pulled in front of

at end of day he was still changing lanes without looking regardless of fact you were coming from behind

He says I was overtaking somewhere I shouldn’t.
I say he should he have signalled. And should have checked his mirror

You’re both right.
Yay! 😀

My view would be that 50/50 and handshakes all round is about the right outcome. He should have looked and indicated, but 25mph is a very fast speed to be filtering at.

All my opinion, of course.

Edit: Durr – didn’t read OP properly. Separate lanes puts much more onus on him, and much more freedom for you to approach at 20+. Glad you’re not too badly hurt.

Double Edit: Just ignore me, I’m confused and elderly…

I’d say his fault, but would be good practice not to overtake when its likely a car might turn like that.

I’d say you were funking nuts to overtake there TBH, but there you go 😉

The road markings show that your are permitted to overtake. Whether doing so on a bike is sensible however is a different matter.
Matey turning without checking mirror or indicating is driving without due care and attention isn’t it ?

^^^^^ this (woodys post that is)

Years of riding motorbikes makes me nervous seeing someone on a push bike or a motorcycle overtaking across a junction

Colleague died doing just this on a fireblade

Glad you’re ok

lots of case law here. Upshot seems to be that the OP was in the wrong.

http://www.access-legal.co.uk/legal-news/accidents-involving-filtering-what-the-law-says-lu-2811.htm

50/50 – I would not overtake a line of traffic that *may* turn right, but he should check mirror and signal.
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I was taught to assume that the other driver will always do the least expected thing, or opposite of what they signal, and general stoopidity.

Not a particularly ludicrous place to overtake IMO. The driver was clearly at fault for failing to indicate and not checking his mirrors and blindspot.

If there was no side road and no oncoming traffic then using the other lane to pass at 25mph would be alright I reckon but that speed at a turning, with oncoming traffic doesn’t leave you much room for error.

Imagine if you were driving and overtook a cyclist, while doing 25, there. If the cyclist tried to make a right turn without looking or signaling and ‘met’ the car whose fault would it be?

Agree with others above, 50/50.

Why didn’t you undertake the queue of cars? That would’ve been the safer option in this situation surely.

EDIT: Actually no, what were you thinking?? next car turns right: bang! next car carries straight on, you will quickly start being undertaken yourself, whilst you are on the wrong side of the road and will have to get yourself back to the right road position which means looking over your shoulder whilst in the path of on-coming traffic. Silly boy.

Why didn’t you undertake the queue of cars? That would’ve been the safer option in this situation surely.

Or, maybe, just maybe, wait a couple of minutes? 😀

bails makes a good point.

Personally I’d say you were right to shake and leave it at that. The driver should have been indicating and should have checked mirrors before turning, however IMHO you shouldn’t have been overtaking at 25mph and should have been expecting the worst.

I think you were both acting without due care and attention.

Why didn’t you undertake the queue of cars? That would’ve been the safer option in this situation surely

Parked cars mainly, and also the junction on the left.
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Looks like the consensus is about 50/50 too, I think the outcome was reasonable in the circumstances. We have both learnt from it anyway.
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EDIT: Actually no, what were you thinking?? next car turns right: bang! next car carries straight on, you will quickly start being undertaken yourself, whilst you are on the wrong side of the road and will have to get yourself back to the right road position which means looking over your shoulder whilst in the path of on-coming traffic. Silly boy

Didn’t mention in the OP there was staionary traffic a further 80-90 yards ahead, queuing to where the bend in the picture is. The stationary traffic would only creep forward a little way when they did move (if they didn’t turn!)

woody2000 – Member
Why didn’t you undertake the queue of cars? That would’ve been the safer option in this situation surely.
Or, maybe, just maybe, wait a couple of minutes?

Oh yeah, was just about to say that… 😳

Now you have re-galed us with more facts I wish to withdraw my “silly boy” comment.

This-

The road markings show that your are permitted to overtake. Whether doing so on a bike is sensible however is a different matter.
Matey turning without checking mirror or indicating is driving without due care and attention isn’t it ?

Mirrors = life savers.

Yours by quite a large margin. You’re very lucky to not be injured and also not on the receiving end of a large repair bill to his car.

Speshpaul – Member

This-

The road markings show that your are permitted to overtake.

No they don’t. 💡

It’s basic highway code stuff; don’t overtake past junctions.

Its his fault, but you should’ve anticipated.

Q – The car in front has its right indicator on, what does it definately mean?

A – His indicator works…

i usually try not to get involved in these… however:

it’s not a car/bike crash – it’s two road-users. if cars treated us like road-users with a right to be out (and safe) on the roads, things would be much better on the whole.

flip side is that we should all ride that way, all the time! it’s hard to do sometimes…

you were the road user overtaking, with all the attendant responsibilities, and doing so at what sounds like a 25mph closing speed. sadly, this makes it your fault. imo.

he didn’t check before turning, so it’s his fault too.

now, i’m off out for a ride, and to try to live up to my own high and mighty morals.

I would have came to a stop behind the last car in the queue.

Why don’t the road markings go “solid” at road junctions then ?

Ignoring the legals of it and based on your description I’d say it was a bloody stupid thing to do.

You know car drivers don’t look and indicate properly as a matter of
routine and there’s no pressure on them currently to do otherwise.

So to filter at speed past a line of traffic by a junction is opening yourself up to getting hit.

Whether the driver was wrong to not look and indicate properly is neither here nor there IMO – you’re too vulnerable as a cyclist to make moves like that.

Glad you’re unhurt and willing to learn the lesson however. IMO the stupid people are the ones who jump up and down in righteous anger and fail to see how they contributed to the accident…

I’d like to change my entry to 50:50

I had similar on my ducati last year. The car turned for a supermarket which meant he overtook 3 cars before the turning to the right. It went 100% in my favour

allthepies – Member

Why don’t the road markings go “solid” at road junctions then ?

If you couldn’t cross the line it wouldn’t be a junction. 😉

But to clarify; stating that the paint on the road says you are permitted to overtake is indicative of a poor attitude towards safe road use, and is incorrect.

Agree with others above, 50/50.

I don’t. Your fault.
As a motorcyclist as well, you just DON’T overtake where there is a right turn. You just don’t do it.
ESPECIALLY where there is a line of cars, indicating or not.

Plus, you’re overtaking. The onus is on you to make a safe overtake. It wasn’t EVER safe because of the potential right turn.
I think you got off lightly.
Sorry 🙂

I’ll bit then sbob
back that up please.
“stating that the paint on the road says you are permitted to overtake”
so by your logic over taking on a double white line is ok then?

And
“allthepies – Member
Why don’t the road markings go “solid” at road junctions then ?
If you couldn’t cross the line it wouldn’t be a junction.”
Most stops as opposed to give ways have solid white lines.

as for no over taking near junctions? where a rule /law saying that?
Urban best practice is one thing.
hey but then so is mirror signal manoeuvre. which would be where the car driver failed here- 33% is not the pass mark

Thanks for the replies guys.
Would it be fair to sumerise it as:
“He was wrong to not signal or check his mirror but that I was doing a risky thing regardless of who’s fault it was”?
A little shaken at the time but feeling fine now, shoulder still hurts though, just bruised though, it moves OK.

Regardless of ‘who’s fault was it’, I prefer to think ‘could this hurt me?’.
If the answer is yes, then I try not to do it.

SpeshPaul,

I’m not sure exactly what your first point is about as you have snipped my quote so it doesn’t make sense and then replied with a crazy conclusion about my logic which also doesn’t make sense, but returning to your first post;
which road marking does permit overtaking?

The second bit was an attempt at humour.

Highway Code rule 167.

as for no over taking near junctions? where a rule /law saying that?

Are you shittin’ me?
Are you REALLY that dumb you can’t see that being on the offside of a vehicle near a right turn isn’t terminally stupid? Do you REALLY need a law saying that?

I don’t know if there is a rule saying that but it’s common sense, it shouldn’t need saying.

EDIT

DO NOT overtake ……where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works

OP’s fault. He shouldn’t have been there.
It’s pretty plain that most people here only cycle and have never been taught to ride a bike. TBH I give up. As far as I can see it’s natural selection in operation.

The OP has put himself in a position where he is only safe so long as every driver indicates and checks their mirrors. 😯

This is not a very good position to be in.

I’m glad no one was badly hurt

andrewh – Member

He says I was overtaking somewhere I shouldn’t.
I say he should he have signalled.

Your fault imo.
Highway code 167 says

Do not overtake blah blah conflict with other road users. For example,

Approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road

What was the blokes road positioning like? I always get as far to the right of my lane when driving as I can when turning right. It prevents blocking people behind if there is room to pass on the left while I wait & it is also a fairly clear hint that I will be turning right. Although I try to use my indicators at all times too.

The OP has put himself in a position where he is only safe so long as every driver indicates and checks their mirrors.

This is not a very good position to be in

You are right, I am kicking myself a bit for that, basic error. Not something I would normally do, and something I am unlikely to do again in a hurry.

Not dumb enough to put a gas pipe through my ear.

Highway is a guide not the law although it my contain law’s. If a section uses the term “might” probably not a law.

So you’ve never passed another vehicle near a junction?
yer sure you haven’t.

I can site two cases locally where the driver who turned right whilst being overtaken were proscetuted – well one went to court and one took a course.

sbob. still don’t see you backing up you’re white line comments.
But to clarify; arrangance is indicative of a poor attitude towards safe road use, and is incorrect

OP put himself in a risky situation reagardless of rights or wrongs. Chillax and get to work in one piece is my advice!