Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 47 total)
  • Anne Robinson does niqabs
  • aracer
    Free Member

    Yeah I know it’s Anne Robinson but quite interesting little segment on interacting with people when out in public whilst wearing a niqab in her programme tonight. A bit more insightful than our usual opinions on it – it did seem to make interaction rather difficult.

    Please keep it polite folks.

    ScottChegg
    Free Member

    it did seem to make interaction rather difficult

    Having a bag on your head makes it harder to speak to people?

    Insightful. 😕

    5thElefant
    Free Member

    I hope she was accompanied by a male relative.

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    captainsasquatch
    Free Member

    Having a bag on your head makes it harder to speak to people?

    It actually does becasue you don’t get the other facial expressions when speaking to the person. It makes it a far more intense experience as concentration levels are higher and as a result better as you have to listen.
    When speaking to an uncovered face you have all sorts of no verbal information being thrown at you, with the niqab, you have to make eye contact and it’s more difficult not to listen.
    It’s the being ignored by women who aren’t allowed to talk to blokes that I find uncomfortable.

    aracer
    Free Member

    Did you watch the programme (I’m sure it’s on iplayer)? There was a bit more to it than that, and in any case interesting to see the effects directly.

    maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    It actually does becasue you don’t get the other facial expressions when speaking to the person

    You could say pretty much the same about Anne Robinson’s botox

    ScottChegg
    Free Member

    I did watch it. A sasquatch above says to try and challenge my earlier post, it’s obvious that without the facial expression a lot of communication is lost.

    I’m not sure that’s worth an hours tv when it’s so self-evident.

    It’s the reason it’s worn which is more of a challenge. That would take much more than an hour to debate, and I’m not sure Ms. Robinson would be the best chair.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    You could say pretty much the same about Anne Robinson’s botox

    😀

    I suppose niqabs and botox say a lot about how we expect women to appear in different societies and cultures

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    The difference is I’m sure most westerners would agree botox is **** ridiculous!

    amedias
    Free Member

    It actually does becasue you don’t get the other facial expressions when speaking to the person. It makes it a far more intense experience as concentration levels are higher and as a result better as you have to listen

    Whatever the reason or the type of garment, as someone who spends a fair amount of time lip reading to compensate for being partially deaf I really struggle when I can’t see a persons mouth, event to the point where some people who have a habit of covering their mouth with their hand while talking, I have to ask them to repeat or move their hand.

    No comment on the show as I only caught about 30 seconds of it but the communication difficulties are real, and not just for people like me, there’s a lot of ‘meta’ information that comes from the face while talking.

    jimjam
    Free Member

    It’s a tool to subjugate women that may or may not have a basis in a medieval fairy tale.

    jon1973
    Free Member

    You could say pretty much the same about Anne Robinson’s botox

    I misread botox for something else then.

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    I did watch it. A sasquatch above says to try and challenge my earlier post, it’s obvious that without the facial expression a lot of communication is lost.

    I’m sure my blind colleague will be devatated to hear that

    It’s a tool to subjugate women

    (nope)

    that may or may not have a basis in a medieval fairy tale

    and the world may or may not be flat

    teamhurtmore
    Free Member

    A woman who looked a little bit like Anne Robinson used to present a programme called the weakest link. I wonder what happened to her?

    jekkyl
    Full Member

    agree with jimjam.

    maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    I misread botox for something else then.

    lets draw a veil over that

    just5minutes
    Free Member

    I certainly found it difficult to communicate with the niqab wearing car driver who nearly knocked me off my bike this week.

    Having reflected on it, I assumed she had seen me but if I’d been able to see her face it would have been more obvious whether she was looking at me or something else – generally you seem some other facial movement when eye contact is made.

    Only being able to see the eyes actually gives away very little. I’d hate to be partially sighted -it’s bad enough trying to use roads when drivers are looking at their phones but when you can’t even tell if a driver is looking at you / and or has their peripheral vision completely obscured by fabric the risks to vulnerable road users can only be higher.

    nickc
    Full Member

    Having a bag on your head makes it harder to speak to people?

    insightful

    It’s just a piece of cloth. Given the lip reading exception, I think mostly the issue is not with the person wearing the headgear.

    DrJ
    Full Member

    Did you watch the programme (I’m sure it’s on iplayer)?

    I might if I knew what it was called.

    5thElefant
    Free Member

    It’s just a piece of cloth. Given the lip reading exception, I think mostly the issue is not with the person wearing the headgear.

    Mostly the misogynist making her wear it.

    captainsasquatch
    Free Member

    Mostly the misogynist making her wear it.

    I wonder whether other cultures see us as misogynistic becuase of the pressure girls are put under to look a certain way and the damage they do to their bodies.
    Just sayin’, like.

    jimjam
    Free Member

    captainsasquatch

    I wonder whether other cultures see us as misogynistic becuase of the pressure girls are put under to look a certain way and the damage they do to their bodies.
    Just sayin’, like.

    In which culture do you feel women have the most freedom? A culture where they are free to chose what to wear, what to say, what to think, what to do, to drive, to vote, to believe in god, to believe in god, to get an education, pursue a career…..

    Or a culture where they wear a sack.

    captainsasquatch
    Free Member

    I’m not sure which one I’d go for, if I’m honest and had to choose. But I’d probably go for:
    Option 1: The culture that I was brought up as the other one I know less about and therefore it scares me.

    Option 2: The one that doesn’t physically do harm to the women.

    It’s a difficult one.

    surfer
    Free Member

    You’ve got to love a good false dichotomy 🙂

    parkesie
    Free Member

    Thats a very different type of bag to have on her head.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    it did seem to make interaction rather difficult.

    I think Anne has that affect on most people

    n which culture do you feel women have the most freedom?

    Clearly its ours but lets not pretend there is no pressure on women to conform to a certain ideal as was the point you sidestepped.

    I wonder whether other cultures see us as misogynistic becuase of the pressure girls are put under to look a certain way and the damage they do to their bodies.

    Can we please stop pretending that every woman who is wearing one was made to do it by a man. Given you are arguing about respect its an incredibly disrespectful to the women to say this. Its also absurd to say no man can tell you what to wear so I am going to tell you what you can wear.

    Mostly the misogynist making her wear it.

    the only women i know who wear it do it from choice. In one case the husband hates it as [non muslim]folk think he made her wear it.

    Still I forget how many Burka wearers the average STW er knows and how extensive their personal knowledge s on this topic

    aracer
    Free Member

    All that is one reason why I though the segment was interesting, because she got to talk to the woman wearing the niqab. But I’m guessing most people on here haven’t watched it (I’m not even convinced by those claiming they have)

    jimjam
    Free Member

    Junkyard

    the only women i know who wear it do it from choice. In one case the husband hates it as [non muslim]folk think he made her wear it.

    Still I forget how many Burka wearers the average STW er knows and how extensive their personal knowledge s on this topic

    I forgot about the forum rule stating that you must have a personal connection to an issue before being allowed to express an opinion. I think that needs tighter moderation. Anyway, I can’t help but wonder what’s more representative of the real world – the millions of women who live in Islamic societies where state law requires them to wear traditional islamic attire (lest they be lashed or imprisoned or worse)….or indeed in the three women Junkyard knows in the UK where they actually have the freedom to choose.

    Even though law here allows us to wear what we want, the fact honour killings by brothers or fathers still happen when daughters go against their family traditions should give insight into just how strongly some women are controlled.

    Can we please stop pretending that every woman who is wearing one was made to do it by a man. Given you are arguing about respect its an incredibly disrespectful to the women to say this. Its also absurd to say no man can tell you what to wear so I am going to tell you what you can wear.

    The UN’s gender inequality study indicates that 3 of 4 worst, countries a women can live in terms of equal rights are muslim majority countries where the law dictates how they dress. So it is a fact that these women are being told how to dress by men. Even in countries like Pakistan where there are no laws officially enforcing the wearing of traditional garb the repercussions for women who deviate is death. Google Fauzia Azeem who was strangled by her brother for having the cheek to declare herself a feminist and pose fully clothed on instagram.

    It’s laughable and completely wrong headed to it’s disrespectful to women to be against the wearing of the niqab. We can see from archive photos of Cairo, Tehran, Kabul and many other cities in the fifties, sixties and seventies that western dress was commonplace. But as those societies have become increasingly islamified women is western clothing has all but disappeared. In other words, when they had the freedom to choose, many women wore normal clothes.

    It is not racist or offensive to be objectively critical of societies which routinely oppress, subjugate and murder atheists, homosexuals or transgender individuals because of medieval superstition and dogma. Similarly it’s not offensive, sexist or racist to be critical of societies where women are second class citizens.

    maccruiskeen
    Full Member

    I forgot about the forum rule stating that you must have a personal connection to an issue before being allowed to express an opinion. I think that needs tighter moderation. Anyway, I can’t help but wonder what’s more representative of the real world – the millions of women who live in Islamic societies where state law requires them to wear traditional islamic attire (lest they be lashed or imprisoned or worse)….or indeed in the three women Junkyard knows in the UK where they actually have the freedom to choose.

    In the context of people in the UK, a secular society where people have the freedom to practice and express their religion – and in the context of this thread – the latter carries a lot of weight. If someone here chooses that form of dress its their choice and they’re free to do so.

    Are you suggesting that they can’t make free choices here because of the actions of an oppressive regime elsewhere? As a form of dress it existed long before the regimes you’re referring to.

    Oppresive regimes and islamist terrorists are cherry-picking all sorts of aspect of muslim identity from all over the world and declaring them their own – which they’ve no right or authority to do. They’re just grabbing at anything in cycle of dogmatic one-upmanship. I don’t really see how agreeing with these people and telling the rest of the muslim world to hand over the tappings of their identify – ‘otherwise you’re just one of them’ – helps anyone

    surfer
    Free Member

    I think Anne has that affect on most people

    But you are making a joke to sidestep a practical question, something you go on to criticise others for.

    but lets not pretend there is no pressure on women to conform to a certain ideal

    So that makes them equivalents?

    Can we please stop pretending that every woman who is wearing one was made to do it by a man

    I suppose thats the same as saying that some women choose FGM of their own accord. There may be some that do but do you think that is a significant number? or even comparable to those that do it under pressure from men?

    Given you are arguing about respect its an incredibly disrespectful to the women to say this

    This viewpoint certainly plays into the hands of feminists, largely silent on this matter, well done 🙂

    the only women i know who wear it do it from choice. In one case the husband hates it as [non muslim]folk think he made her wear it.

    There certainly seems no end to the “minorities” you claim to be friends with so of course you do 🙄

    jimjam
    Free Member

    maccruiskeen –

    In the context of people in the UK, a secular society where people have the freedom to practice and express their religion – and in the context of this thread – the latter carries a lot of weight. If someone here chooses that form of dress its their choice and they’re free to do so.

    Are you suggesting that they can’t make free choices here because of the actions of an oppressive regime elsewhere? As a form of dress it existed long before the regimes you’re referring to.

    I’m not suggesting they aren’t free to make choices here but it’s foolish and counter productive to pretend there won’t be repercussions for many women should they decide to reject this form of religious dress. If your entire family background and culture expects or insists on a certain behaviour it may be difficult or even dangerous to deviate.

    surfer
    Free Member

    Are you suggesting that they can’t make free choices here because of the actions of an oppressive regime elsewhere?

    Have you read the post above yours?

    aracer
    Free Member

    Does this help surfer?

    I think Anne has that affect on most people[/quote]

    😆

    jimjam
    Free Member

    Can I just add, for anyone thinking of watching the Anne Robinson thing to gain some context – don’t bother.

    surfer
    Free Member

    Does this help surfer?

    No, what are you talking about?

    CharlieMungus
    Free Member

    In which culture do you feel women have the most freedom? A culture where they are free to chose what to wear, what to say, what to think, what to do, to drive, to vote, to believe in god, to believe in god, to get an education, pursue a career…..

    Or a culture where they wear a sack

    i guess it would not be the culture where people raise questions about what women choose to wear and suggest that because they do not dress in the way which conforms to the norms of that culture, they therefore do not have any agency and are not able to make choices.

    Tom_W1987
    Free Member

    i guess it would not be the culture where people raise questions about what women choose to wear and suggest that because they do not dress in the way which conforms to the norms of that culture, they therefore do not have any agency and are not able to make choices.

    If women have agency can anyone tell me what all the huff was about with the beach body underground posters, that Sadiq Khan banned for modesty reasons to appease his core voters 😀 totally feminist reasons.

    DrJ
    Full Member

    Similarly it’s not offensive, sexist or racist to be critical of societies where women are second class citizens.

    True, but it is a bit dim to use clothing as a metric of second-classness. In my detailed study (sample size approx 2*) women in Oman wear all that black stuff because they want to, despite the protestations of their male friends and family.

    *this is STW – normal standards don’t apply.

    DrJ
    Full Member

    If women have agency can anyone tell me what all the huff was about with the beach body underground posters,

    No, but they certainly brightened up my commute 🙂

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