Viewing 37 posts - 81 through 117 (of 117 total)
  • Angle headsets – how slack have people gone?
  • legend
    Free Member

    To compensate for the slightly slacker seat tube moving the saddle backwards

    julians
    Free Member

    After a ride on my rallon with the superstar -2 deg head set, the difference is mostly similar to how I felt after I put a -1.5 head set on my old Mojo HD.

    Climbing is fine and unaffected, steep downhill is better, but on fast flat’ish trails you really need you to consciously keep your weight over the front otherwise it feels like the front wheel will wash out.

    I may try lowering the stem by 10mm, or possibly even a 10mm longer stem to see if that makes it more natural feeling, but at the moment it is more difficult to get enough weight on the front wheel without it feeling a bit unnatural.

    Like on my old mojo, I’m not entirely sold on this at the moment, the improvement on steep downhills is significant, but at the moment it is matched by a significant worsening on more mellow trails.

    eshershore
    Free Member

    @julians

    after getting my Works angle headset, I really looked at my setup all over again. the geometry of the bike was much improved, but the bars felt too high

    I messed around with stems – tried 5 different length/rise before settling on Zipp Service Course with +/- 25 degrees seen in the above image in -25 degrees

    looks odd, but works great and put the handlebar in a great position – much closer to a 650 bike

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    julians
    Free Member

    Its not that the bars feel too high from a comfort point of view, its just that in my natural position theres clearly not enough weight over the front wheel.

    Im hopeful that just lowering the bars by 10mm will fix that (i have 20mm space to play with). I couldnt do that on the mojo as the bars were as low as they would go.

    Its all interesting, and amazing what changing one thing affects.

    docgeoffyjones
    Full Member

    Took my bike with -1 out today and really happy with it. I found fire ride climbs a bit slower but only marginally. Technical climbs I found easier as it requires a bit less effort to lift the front end up and over stuff and was not slowed down as much by roots.
    Going downhill it felt slower but actually was faster according to Strava. It felt more like I was down in the bike than on sitting on top of it.

    I wish I had a bigger diameter head tube so I could knock another degree off

    chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    I can’t believe how steep the Giant looks even after being slackened!

    This is the sort of thing that should be in this thread: 😉

    Bigmantrials
    Full Member

    Fitted a -2deg superstar slackset to my thumper last week, stock it should be around 68deg (I forgot to confirm this prior to fitting) after fitting the slack set it seems to be around 65.5 – 66. Had my first ride at the weekend on some of the natural stuff at Cannock, couldn’t detect much difference from a climbing point of view, only how unfit I felt after not being on the bike for a month or so! When it came to descending the bike felt more stable but I didn’t feel fast, however it would appear I managed set a couple of PR’s on sections I have ridden many times before.

    Deffinitely happy with the result, I was considering changing frames, but this should keep me content for a little while now!

    thepodge
    Free Member

    I have the same headset in my Kona Satori which is basically the same as the Thumper and would echo your views, just need to find my offset bushings and get them in there too.

    Denis99
    Free Member

    I have gone the opposite way to this thread.

    Taken the Angleset off, and now reducing the fork travel to steepen the front end up a little.

    Must be a bit of an old retro grouch at heart, but a very slack front end didn’t suit me.

    buckster
    Free Member

    Just fitted a works -2, not ridden yet but will do tomorrow, should be fun, not a great photo, in fact awful

    chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    I have gone the opposite way to this thread.

    Taken the Angleset off, and now reducing the fork travel to steepen the front end up a little.

    Must be a bit of an old retro grouch at heart, but a very slack front end didn’t suit me.

    I know the Singletrack review wholeheartedly praised the Chromag with a 160mm fork but the geometry really isn’t designed for it – bottom bracket ends up sky high, seat angle rather slack.

    With a shorter fork giving a lower BB and longer reach I suspect a slackened head angle would work rather well, but with such a long fork the riding position ends up too far off the back of the bike.

    andyl
    Free Member

    Remember a 2 deg angleset results in about 1.5 deg slacker due to the lowering of the front end.

    I am undecided on the 2 deg one fitted to my mk1 solaris. I impatiently fitted it before even trying out the bike (bought 2nd hand frame with hope headset).

    My previous bike was a scandal 29er which I loved. I then built a Parkwood 29er for a friend with a much slacker head angle and loved it even more. I was expecting the solaris with the 2 deg to be similar to the latter but it was a good example of just how different bikes can be despite having a similar head angle. It almost feels too safe and makes me try silly stuff to make it exciting, but it was supposed to be my cyclepath mile munching bike. I have also added 35mm carbon rims and am about to fit a 120mm fork so it looks like I have got a bit carried away…I am tempted to put the original headset back in to try and make it a bit more twitchy.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Just in from my first proper testride of my slackerised Remedy 29- 2 degree headset and shock bushings knocking it down into the 65s somewhere, and adding a little wheelbase. Total win tbh. It also has a slightly longer fork than stock which I’m going to experiment with but so far not really feeling any need.

    mrbotticelli
    Full Member

    I’m now angleset curious?

    Does anyone have an opinion on whether this would be worth trying on an 2006/7 Marin Quad Tara which is running 150mm forks instead of the original 140mm’s?

    Only gets ridden for a few weeks a year when it gets taken abroad, odd trip to Wales or the Lakes etc.

    Would it also benefit from offset bushings?

    Cheers

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Straight steerer bikes are more limited in what you can do, generally you can only add a a degree headset so it costs the same for half the change… Offset bushings are trickier, it depends on the frame- I could only run one in my Hemlock frinstance because with any more it banged frame parts together. It can mess with complex linkage designs too (though whether you notice or care is another matter).

    I’d say, if it’s a bike you like but you’d like to tweak, it’s worth looking into but it’ll probably not change it massively… Mind you, on my Hemlock it basically meant I kept the bike for an extra 3 years, it can be quite a fine line between up for it/not up for it.

    thepodge
    Free Member

    If it needs a new headset then I’d go for it but maybe not buy one especially

    buckster
    Free Member

    First ride reflects what others have said, Im now at about 63 I think. All in the bike feels more planted. Downhill is as stable as I expected, uphill though improved, I found it easier to ‘flick’ the front up over roots. All in win for me. Also, Works have been exceptionally good form sales support through to returns (ordered the wrong one first time), Off to Aston Hill friday to see how it feels downhill proper.

    thepodge
    Free Member

    63 is quite extreme, some people wouldn’t consider your unmodified head angle never mind that.

    docgeoffyjones
    Full Member

    I’d say, if it’s a bike you like but you’d like to tweak, it’s worth looking into but it’ll probably not change it massively…

    I wish could I fit more degrees in but there was a very noticeable change for me with only 1 degree. I imagine that detectability probably depends heavily on bike setup and your riding style.

    chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    Spitfire is done! Feels nice – I’ll ride some actual trails tomorrow. Measuring at about 64 deg HA (I kept getting 63.9 but I’m not sure how flat the garage floor is) and about 74 SA (effective – calculated from actual being 71.9 when it should be 71.5 with a 545mm fork and standard headset).

    I was planning to switch it to the neutral dropout setting to make it 0.5 deg steeper and 6mm higher BB, and although I’ll probably do that once dry weather returns (for improved flickability and pedal clearance), now it’s getting greasy and random (“can I interest sir in a main course of hidden roots with a slippery leaf topping?”) I think the extra stability will be good.

    thepodge
    Free Member

    If you’re unsure how level the floor is, turn the bike round on the same spot and measure again, add the two numbers then divide by 2.

    julians
    Free Member

    So, after feeling that the bike felt un balanced, like the front wheel wanted to wash out, with the -2deg anglset, i lowered the bars by 15mm,rotated the bars so they were maybe 5mm further forward than they were, and slid the seat forward by 10mm. What a difference that small change makes. All back to feeling balanced again.

    mrbotticelli
    Full Member

    OK, given I can only get 1 degree of adjustment and my headset is like new I’ll keep riding in full ‘All Mountain’ 2007 retro mode.

    chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    If you’re unsure how level the floor is, turn the bike round on the same spot and measure again, add the two numbers then divide by 2.

    I can’t believe I have never thought of this before!

    mark90
    Free Member

    Or if you are using bubble phone app (or similar) calibrate the phone to the floor.

    chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    My garage floor is far too lumpy for calibration to work!

    However, I’ve found the smoothest part and measured the bike both ways around. The results were a degree different and the average was 64.1 deg HA, which is exactly the same as predicted.

    Looks pretty bomber for a 150/140mm bike!

    buckster
    Free Member

    63 is quite extreme, some people wouldn’t consider your unmodified head angle never mind that.

    Yep. But, if like me, you enjoy hooning around with no worries about times/averages/stats and are happy to plod/winch the ups it is a lot of fun having a slack bike. If you read the Pole thread, that bike wb and ha appears way out of kilter but everyone that has ridden one rates it. Maybe the next ‘phase’ of MTB development is exploring more extreme angles? Tbh, Id love a BTR Belter (61.5) but, cant hit a £1k steel frame at the moment!

    thepodge
    Free Member

    If you read the Pole thready you’ll see I’m already a fan

    chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    Had its first proper test this evening, on tight twisty rooty leaf covered wet trails. It bloody works!

    jsync
    Full Member

    -1 degree works headset now fitted to a Bronson v1. Not ridden but the bars feel surprisingly higher, placebo or real change? I know I will probably have to remove spacers and rearrange the bar setup but I have 15mm of spacers to play with.

    thepodge
    Free Member

    They are a fraction closer to you so you may feel slightly more sat up and depending on what headset you have the stem might be higher due to offset bearings.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Is it a taller set of cups? (my Remedy has a 10mm taller headset than stock, to make room for the offset)

    docgeoffyjones
    Full Member

    -1 degree works headset now fitted to a Bronson v1. Not ridden but the bars feel surprisingly higher, placebo or real change? I know I will probably have to remove spacers and rearrange the bar setup but I have 15mm of spacers to play with.

    I had a similar feeling i think some of it is to do with the bars being moved further back as the total stack height is about 2mm lower now + 3.68mm from the angle change in the forks
    I was thinking about dropping down to 10mm from 15mm but not sure what the advantage would be

    jsync
    Full Member

    It is taller but I thought only by 3mm, but will have to check. I assume I can remove all spacers and have the stem directly on the headset?

    chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    Superslack Spitfire out in t’woods:

    simon80
    Free Member

    Just about to order a -2 deg slackset to complement my offset bushings for my Five AM.
    I will feedback about how it goes…

    chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    Since that photo was taken I’ve taken the Spitfire’s Pike back out to 160mm which takes the static geometry to a 63.7 deg head angle in the slack setting and 64.2 in neutral. The latter is now the default setting, with slack kept for uplift days or really slippery conditions.

    It probably isn’t as extreme in practice as it sounds though – I’m running about 25% sag at the front and 28% at the back (160/140) so that’s 40mm at both ends. If you compare that to say a Transition Patrol (160/155) or Nomad v3 (160/165) with 20% fork and 30-35% shock sag, that’s about 32mm front and about 50mm rear, so they end up sagged about a degree slacker than their static angles – around a 64.5 deg head angle.

Viewing 37 posts - 81 through 117 (of 117 total)

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