http://road.cc/content/news/69775-andy-murray-slams-cycling-lack-skill-and-too-many-drugs%E2%80%A6-not-tennis

Andy was responding to questions – and the main point he was making was that Tennis should have more blood testing and more out of season testing. He wouldn’t say that if he didn’t have concerns about doping in Tennis.

And who could argue that the skill:physical balance is higher for tennis than cycling? That’s not to say that cycling doesn’t require skill (as we all know), just that the guy who kicks your ass cycling up a hill is almost always fitter than you, rather than more skilful than you.

But he has a point. If I was as fit as any of the top tennis players I still wouldn’t take a point of them. If I was as fit as a top cyclist I could keep up with them on the uphills and the time trials.

He was also wanting more drug tests in tennis. Where is the problem with that and why is it being “Scottish”.

Fair article I thought. Lot of skill in tennis, but there is also a huge amount of power and endurance. At the top level it’s power and endurance that allows the players to apply their skill consistently. I don’t doubt that doping is as prevalent as in most other sports.

If you could measure a level of skill I’m sure most top players would be within a few percent of each other, but if some players have ~20% more power and/or endurance due to doping then that’s going to make a massive difference.

At the end of a knackering 5 set battle in searing heat it’s probably going to be the fitter, stronger player that kicks your ass (at that level anyway.)

Edit: I didn’t really get the “being scottish bit either.”

Wow and i thought this forum was full of fly off the handle types, would appear that road.cc is worse.

I agree with the above two comments, and i think we may see more of this from other sports as the realisation that the drug testing that curently goes on may be inadiquate. Yes cycling is taking a thumping right now but i don’t see this as him jumping on the bandwagon to slag it off.

since when did people start caring what he thinks?

Drugs will be a benefit in tennis, hitting the ball harder, being able to maintain a high intensity for longer (massive advantage), quicker recovery from injury (massive benefit)

Murray is right to say tennis needs more testing, as the article points out some of the doping doctors work with tennis players too.

But he has a point. If I was as fit as any of the top tennis players I still wouldn’t take a point of them. If I was as fit as a top cyclist I could keep up with them on the uphills and the time trials.

thing is you wouldn’t as it takes far more than pure fitness at the top end. This applies to any sport. If you want to win a sprint you you need to know where to be. Want to win on a climb, you have to know when and where to jump.

Yes cycling has a drug problem, it is better than it was, will it ever go away? probably not, is it worse than other sports? i doubt it. Too much money and too many vested interests in football for anyone to try and solve the problem.

He deliberately singled out climbing and TTing and I agree, they are mostly about fitness (in terms of you can be competitive with just the fitness side).
Sure you need to know not to kill yourself every time Contador jumps but I guess it depends if you count reading your watts off a powermeter counts as skill?
Sure you won’t beat Cancellara in a TT if you’re equally fit as he’ll likely be more aero (although not sure if that counts as a skill) and he’ll be faster through the corners but you could still post a respectable time whereas in Tennis you would be lucky to even hit the ball back let alone score any points if the only attribute you had was being as fit as Andy Murray.

He should have been asked why some women tennis players are serving faster than the men in the same tournament

Tennis you would be lucky to even hit the ball back let alone score any points if the only attribute you had was being as fit as Andy Murray.

and if you look at the number of aces it is about power and not skill?

As for TTing, if you leave the UK drag strip courses behind, and look at sporting courses, plenty of skill is needed in knowing how far to push it through a corner.

As has been said it is about balance. and remember that fitness is not universal, a good runner is not neccessarily a good cyclist.

I actually agree with Murray on this one really.

I’m sure if a cyclist said the same about tennis, the tennis sites and forums would light up in uproar.

Most of the comments on road.cc just show how naive people are.

Regardless of this, he’s always been Scottish. My personal opinion is that he’s an English-hating, un-charismatic, miserable loser

When asked who would he be supporting in the Rugby World Cup, his reponse was the classic anyone but England. One in the eye for all his English supporters I’d say

I suggest you go look for (a) the transcript of this interview and (b) the comments made by the journalist who asked the question.

When asked who would he be supporting in the Rugby World Cup, his reponse was the classic anyone but England. One in the eye for all his English supporters I’d say

FFS its like 1966 all over again, get over it!! Hardly logical to judge someones talent because he called you a **** once

“Regardless of this, he’s always been Scottish. My personal opinion is that he’s an English-hating, un-charismatic, miserable loser

When asked who would he be supporting in the Rugby World Cup, his reponse was the classic anyone but England. One in the eye for all his English supporters I’d say”

For crying out loud. He was having a joke with the interviewer at the time. Anyone who is stupid enough to take that comment seriously, is probably the type of jumped up little hitler who takes offence at the slightest thing and carries a whole chippy on his shoulder. He is right about the skill levels though, certainly in comparison to road cycling. For those who’ve talked about knowing when to “go” in a sprint or to take a hill, that’s not skill doofusses, that’s experience. For those who’ve talked about “Power” in tennis from drugs, well yes, players like Nadal and Murray are very powerful, but the beauty of tennis is that power without control is nothing, you end up hoofing the ball long/wide/both of the above. He’s a great British tennis player who isn’t particularly comfortable being interviewed. So what? I’d hate it if the same fat twonks who never made the fourth team at school were asking me the same dumb questions week, after week, after week. The whole English/Scottish thing is so tired. Until they get independence of course, at which point they’re even worse than the French, but that’s a whole different thread… 🙂

Limited skill in TT-ing, even on technical courses, so possible to win an individual TT just with the physiological elements of fitness.
Large amount of tactical skill, race intelligence and psychological skills required to do well in top level road racing, particularly in a grand tour, so very unlikely to win just on physiological fitness. “Keeping up on a hill” doesn’t mean much in itself, because lots of people who can keep up on the hills don’t win road races.

knowing when to “go” in a sprint or to take a hill, that’s not skill doofusses, that’s experience

These are skills (just two of many involved in road racing) and successful competitors can use their experience to improve these skills.

The man is talking out of his bum….

What he fails to appreciate is that to be a pro cyclist you have to have been one of the best amateurs, then you have to be good enough as a pro to get into a Tour team, then you have to be good enough to be selected to ride the Tour, all of which requires a great deal of skill as well as big legs.

His dimwitted comparison of the number of tests in cycling and tennis exposes his ignorance even more.

Further, Murray’s statement completely ignores the fact that (1) cycling tests (13,144 in 2011) much more than tennis (2,150 in 2011), which goes a long way in explaining why cycling registers many more positives than tennis,

Cycling has banned the doctors that are now ‘advising’ tennis players…

Serena Williams hid in a panic room rather than be tested out of competition…

Andy, away an shite yersel’

http://tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.co.uk/

THe Scottish comment was a dig at the way the media claim him for the UK when he’s doing well, but call him a Scot when he loses..

Okay, English-hating comments aside, I’ll ‘shelve’ that aspect for now, still leaves him an un-charismatic miserable loser 😀

And funkrodent – ‘jumped-up little hitler with a chip on his shoulder’ eh?! Woah there cowboy, tiny bit harsh wouldn’t you say? Sounds like someone else may have a chip on one or possibly even both shoulders!

Okay, so no-one could see the smile on my face when I made my comment above, but if he’s allowed to have a joke about the whole anyone but england comment, then surely I’m allowed to have one back!

Get over it peeps, phew, never been called a Nazi before. Oh, wait a minute, yes I have, I’ve had a shaved head since I was 18

It’s very badly worded – could have been better thought out. And it has been taken advantage of.

The general sentiment isn’t far off the mark. Doping gives a massive advantage to already competitive cyclists.

cant see anything particularly controversial here to justify the (seemingly) anti thread title. A lot of common sense and I am sure quite a bit of quoting out-of-context.

Tennis has a drugs issue that has filtered down a long way. I agree that there needs to be more testing – same with most pro sports imo.

Further, Murray’s statement completely ignores the fact that (1) cycling tests (13,144 in 2011) much more than tennis (2,150 in 2011), which goes a long way in explaining why cycling registers many more positives than tennis,

But how many Pro cyclists are there world wide vs the number of Pro tennisists? surely the number of tests carried out should be proportionate to the number of competitors and events in any given sport, comparing the Gross number of tests carried out is a bit simplistic innit?

I think the real point is that sport in general needs to take Doping seriously, the Balance of Skill Vs fittness from sport to sport is irrelevent the fact that juicers can and do prosper in any field of sport is the thing to address.

a sports governing body isn’t succeeding just because their sport appears to be cleaner than the current whipping boy (Cycling ATM), they’ve succeeded when all the competitors are clean and testing and derived rulings is unequivical, uncorruptable, apply to all cometitors throughout the year (not just during the season), and cover all known substances; I doubt any sport could really achieve all of that but it’s what they should be striving for.

comparing the Gross number of tests carried out is a bit simplistic innit?

Which is exactly what he did.

A lot of simplistic points being made here like “he can hit the ball harder means more aces” and so on. Placement is usually more important than pace in tennis, ditto for groundstrokes. Some exceptions on very slow surfaces like clay. If a big server and how hard you can hit the ball is the most important thing then please explain the top four tennis players’ winning record against Karlovic and other monster hitters.

Also, progression in cycling seems very linear unlike tennis. National champions in countries with a cycling tradition usually go on to become very accomplished cyclists at higher levels. Not so with tennis. Look at the top 100 and you’ll see several of them who were successful juniors who’ve not come close to replicating their form in the senior tour. To me this suggests that tennis players develop more over the years as opposed to cyclists.

There definitely is cheating in tennis, but it’s more subtle than outright doping and is more effective. I’m talking more about things like illegal coaching from the stands and the like. This happens at all levels, not just the top. The dope testing is pretty good at the higher levels and at the lower levels there’s usually not enough to be gained, or the finances to afford it.

So Wilko 1999 (does that make you 13? If so that explains everything): What makes him a loser, seeing as he is the best british tennis player for 60 years and has to beat probably the 3 best ever mens players if he’s going to win.

“I think there’s very little skill involved in the Tour de France, it’s pretty much just physical,”

TBH i get his point that the main requirement to win the TdF is fitness rather than skill however i would like to see him keep up riding downhill with them from a col

As for tennis and drugs no idea.

Murray from henman who was there and it was football and just banter and a joke as they were ribbing him as scotland were out and asked him who he would support that was his jokey reply that some folk got upset about as they only know the anyone but england bit
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqQsHBwkDgQ[/video]
Not sure why linky no worky

Apologies to anyone whom I may have offended with references to jumped-up hitlers and doofusses. Perhaps a mite strongly worded. Still maintain that tactics and skills are different things, certainly in the context that Murray was focusing on. At the end of the day though, whether you are a pro-level cyclist or a pro-level tennis player, you have to be incredibly at the top of your game to get, let alone stay, there and your success is about so much more than – yet can’t be achieved without – physical and mental fitness. Ironically with Murray, once he had sorted out his fitness and strength and increased his range of attacking strokes, the only thing holding him back was the mental side of his game. Once he had resolved this – commonly agreed to be when he lost to Federer in the Wimbledon final that he really should have wrapped up before they closed the roof – he took the next steps to Olympic Gold and his first Slam. Anyway, this doping malarkey is well over-rated. I’ve been necking steroids, storing my blood in a fridge (whilst paying pretty masseusses to carry it across international borders) and shelling out literally pounds a week to dodgy San Francisco based laboratories since I was seven and I’ve yet to place higher than 13th in the annual Dog and Duck Egg and Spoon race. What am I doing wrong?

With increased fatigue the skill level drops…. increase stamina, increase skill ! I don’t understand the difference between the observations of Tennis and Cycling !!

Chickenman: it’s quite feasible to win something but still be a loser. In the ‘finger and thumb in the shape of an L on the forehead’ sense

Bit of a fail on the age comment though, read my second post in this thread 😀

A surprising u-turn from Andy “snitches get stitches” Murray…