Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 90 total)
  • And you still gets slagged off for buying online (LBS content)…….
  • ojom
    Free Member

    As an on-line LBS we see both sides of the coin i think.

    There is a clear difference in peoples expectations in each channel.

    It's a case of trying to find a balance and build an appropriate relationship with each person as an individual whether it be in person or virtually.

    We adopt an LBS approach to web sales – it seems to work for us. We don't list the same product that makes the big guys big as we simply cannot and do not want to compete.

    For us it's about people and fun, not box shifting. There is a market for this approach I have found – it's what the business model is based on and was the niche I saw we could fill when I took over the running of the shop. You have to accept you cannot make everyone happy all the time and some people just don't want a relationship – we go after the people that do and we aim to make sure we give them as near as damn the price they (and we of course) are happy with.

    We make some money, they get a good deal. It's a case of treading the balance every day/week/month to keep things focused. I have wages to pay and a margin to achieve to make the business work. Sadly RRP has to be charged on certain things as Madison and Fishers do not at the present accept biscuits from us as payment (nor do staff for that matter!).

    It's sad to think people think a business charging a realistic RRP are ripping people off. These prices are suggested by distributors and suppliers to allow us to make a margin based on the amount they sell to us at. No-one seems to bargain at Tescos or McDonalds for a discount. Believe me, they make much much much bigger margins than bike shops and distributors etc.

    Ach well, it's the weekend! Brain off. Beer ON!

    Stoatsbrother
    Free Member

    joe@brookscycles – No experience of your shop… but…

    What have you done to seek your customers views? Why should we have to overcome our British reticence to tell surly and unhelpful staff that they are surly and unhelpful? It's not like they are going to change. These days you have to actively seek your customers feedback. Not to do so is inconceivable in a modern service industry.

    One less than brilliant LBS was asking customers to fill in forms giving feedback, so I did.

    Edric64
    Free Member

    "Howl" by BRMC

    Who are they ?
    I know BMC made cars years ago

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...
    Latest Singletrack Videos
    Stoatsbrother
    Free Member

    thebikechain.co.uk

    Tesco's profit in 2009/10 was just 5.7% of turnover

    McDonalds is a largely franchised business – consisting of thousands of small businesses.

    Not sure your comparison is fair or valid. But good luck.

    The idea that there is such a thing as RRP these days is actually a little bogus.

    ojom
    Free Member

    Tesco's profit in 2009/10 was just 5.7% of turnover

    Yep. It is. However this is a massive amount of money.

    Thanks for the good luck wishes – i think you know what i was aiming at.

    It may be a bogus that RRP's exist but they do and this is what businesses use in forecasting and budgeting. To introduce a non number or constantly shifting variable instead would be fallacy and impossible.

    You just have to accept that as a forecast it is just that, a forecast. Based on things being 'normal'. That's just a simple accounting fact.

    esselgruntfuttock
    Free Member

    Personally I only shop online for 'odds & sods', like… I dunno, grips, some cheapo pedals for the hack bike etc. My 'local bike shop' is 65 miles away but when I go there I spend a bit & get a good discount, I shake the owners hand & he asks me how I'm doing, the mechanic comes out of the back from the workshop, does the same & asks If I've any jokes! (cos I try & make them laugh, works wonders) One of the sales lads says 'Hi Jim, long time no see, hows it going?' Dunno but it might be cos I was shopping there before the interweb came along & I've recommended them to a lot of people who go back time & time again.
    PLUS… It's like Santa's grotto to a mountain biker!

    geofg
    Free Member

    My LBS is Primera in Bournemouth
    They helped spec my build – built it for nothing and gave 10% on all the parts (it was a top of range build) That was about 3 years ago but when I broke a saddle rail earlier this year and asked them to post a replacement on Monday so I could ride Tuesday evening the manager came round and fitted the saddle on monday evening to make sure I could ride – also got my local club discount on the purchase.
    I will use them for everything I can because its a case of use it or lose it with LBS. They also have a great stock + changing rooms for trying on clothes and apart from having so many bikes and so much kit in stock that walking round the shop is a challenge they would be hard to beat. No biscuits or coffee but a Tuesday night ride ending in a pub led by 2 of their staff all year round.
    I am no longer interested in saving a fiver on-line. They are superb.

    Hairychested
    Free Member

    I work in a small LBS where we tried selling MTBs only to discover they were being bought for 16 year old kids whose parents later demanded everything and a bit more to be done under warranty, that would include punctures, fixing hydraulic brakes treated with WD40 and broken wheels.
    We left it and stock hybrids and road stuff. Now we get pretty girls in lycra, lads doing triathlon, families going touring. The bikes come clean and customers are smiling, what a change!
    Not for a moment do I regret such a switch, many (most?) MTB-ers are a rude bunch who expect too much for far too little.

    richcc
    Free Member

    This has, as is often the way of STW, turned into a really interesting thread. Interesting to see the different viewpoints on what are reasonable and unreasonable expectations and whether and how shops try to meet them

    iamsporticus
    Free Member

    Wow – a minor league rant has turned into a pretty good thread 🙂

    Threads like this stress me out big time. Have any of you (either pro or con) actually told your LBS your views, and reasons?

    Well thats the 64000 dollar question

    I phone up the LBS and order the bits
    Thats from the manager of the one who doesnt ask for a big deposit
    I then make time from work to collect them the next day
    This is a minor hassle but a hassle nevertheless

    When I arrive they have c0cked up the order
    As I said this is somehow my fault – wtf??

    I then leave never to return

    Do I really need to tell them they are rubbish?

    Having b4llsed up my order and got funny when I denied it was my fault is there really any point in telling them how unhappy I am?

    Cheers

    GiantJaunt
    Free Member

    I buy stuff online if I can because it's easier and I know what I'm looking for. I'd like to support my LBS more but I find that the advice I'm given on this forum is much more useful.

    duir
    Free Member

    I remember (20 years ago before the internet reached me) when the LBS was a cool place to hang out and was filled with really amazing bikes, parts and kits I would save up for and buy. They would always do deals for cash and fit things for free and were not run by snotty little teenagers that want to patronise me. I would drop in just to chat, go for a group ride, get advice and often got freebees.

    Nowadays I do all my own mechanics and buy everything online where it is in stock, cheaper and in my hands quicker.

    LBS just seem rubbish these days.

    leffeboy
    Full Member

    I wonder if we are actually a bit of a niche market for the lbs and don't make up as much of their business as we think we do. I know that I am price and kit sensitive so tend to shop around and am aware of the online prices. However the bulk of my cycling friends aren't like that and just want a bike that works, price often not being an issue (well up to 1,500 maybe).

    The result of that is that of the 3 lbs that I use I send all my friends to just one of them as I know they don't mess around and always work out the right bike for whoever I send there and servicing seems good to.

    There seems plenty of market still out there for a good lbs, it's just that now there is somewhere else to go if it isn't so good

    jam-bo
    Full Member

    20 years ago

    not run by snotty little teenagers

    i see a potential correlation here…grumpy old man??

    esselgruntfuttock
    Free Member

    I buy stuff online if I can because it's easier and I know what I'm looking for. I'd like to support my LBS more but I find that the advice I'm given on this forum is much more useful.
    Possibly easier depending on how far away you are from the shop. As for 'advice' it's seems to me that this forum is more about opinions than advice.

    GiantJaunt
    Free Member

    Possibly easier depending on how far away you are from the shop. As for 'advice' it's seems to me that this forum is more about opinions than advice.

    Yeah good point. There is one bike shop I go to that's full of experts, characters and helpful people but it's a bit of a drive away. The shop I got my bike from probably know less about the bike than I do and it's a struggle to get good advice. Forums can be useful for talking to folk who own the same bike and components.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    One thng I have found is tht people seem to overstate the savings buying online.

    My LBS is the above mentioned TBC – but I also use other shops.

    When buying stuff that is not an emergancy buy I check prices online then go to TBC or one of the other shops to see what they can do. Usually they are pretty close and have wht i want in stock – I refer to stuff like drivetrain parts, brake pads, tubes, that sort of thing

    For the advice and convinience I am prepared to pay the odd fiver extra

    bravohotel9er
    Free Member

    QUOTE: geofg – Member
    My LBS is Primera in Bournemouth QUOTE.

    Mine too!

    Really good shop. They were great with my dad too, he bought his first ever serious bike at the age of 60 and they sorted him out with a Specialized Crosstrail which is just perfect for him.

    I'll be going in there at some point next week to see if they can get the pedals off my brother's Hardrock.

    Actually….strictly speaking, 'On Yer Bike' is my LBS, but as you'll be well aware they're perfectly good, but not in the same league as Primera.

    hora
    Free Member

    Heres a new one. Why don't LBS's support us?

    They are businesses and we are punters.

    Those that have a good repoire with their bikeshop. If you stopped buying things from them (you know, things are tight) but still popped in. How long before the owner etc would describe you as annoying etc?

    Well? Its your wallet the shop owner wants. Why do some people have a fairy-tale view of the world? 🙄

    I wont name and shame but the amount of times I've popped into one particular shop just to buy bits and pieces and asked just one question- then spent 10minutes with them telling me all about a certain frame or bike with me saying 'err right thanks'.

    I'm a bloke – I don't go into a shop and buy something by surprise. I know what I want and go hunting for it.

    rs
    Free Member

    for me the problem is that pretty much most stuff in the bike shop is RRP which isn't the bike shops fault but i can take 10 minutes to look at stuff online in 10 different shops and see who is doing the best deals, guaranteed one of them will have a huge discount on what i want for last years model which is fine with me. I can't justify full RRP when you can save so much online.

    hora
    Free Member

    rs why are you up so early?

    rs
    Free Member

    its just coming up for 10pm here, why are you up so early?

    hora
    Free Member

    Ah. Couldn't sleep. Saying that I started falling asleep at 8.30pm yesterday (old age I guess). Out on the bike in a hour though and back intime for the F1 start :mrgreen:

    rs
    Free Member

    ah, i figured it must be the new kid getting you up early, enjoy your ride.

    hora
    Free Member

    Hes fast asleep! How ironic- its me who can't sleep and not him. 😯

    littlegirlbunny
    Free Member

    I have had very mixed experiences of both online and LBS shopping. I have a particular hatred for some arrogant LBS owners, and those that rip of newbie riders by overcharging significantly for repairs/fitting.

    Recently, however, I have found some absolutely top class service from Four LBS's in particular:
    *Coombes Cycles in Hereford – fitted a Hope Bottom Bracket, including free facing of my BB, set the bike up perfectly and provided amusing stories of MM all for the retail price of the BB…and completed in a morning leaving me to collect the bike at lunch break.

    *Swinnertons (Cannock Chase) – have a good supply of stock, and are always happy to help, even when really busy

    *Red Kite in Brum – haven't always had what we want in stock, but are still happy to help, provide alternative suggestions and generally polite and helpful service.

    *The Bike Chain, from where I recently ordered a large amount of kit for a new build. They sourced it all at a fair price, kept me constantly updated with info about the suppliers and got the stuff shipped out as soon as it arrived.

    Top quality service from all four….just wanted to say so really – because good customer service doesn't get recognised anywhere near enough.

    mountainposture
    Full Member

    MY LBS is just over 100 miles away – they have cracking customer service, chat about bikes at any level of knowledge to anyone who comes in asking for advice, have enough stock to do the running repairs needed at the trailhead, AND possibly most interestingly, they don't presume two women wandering in there know nothing about bikes.

    My main gripe about a lot of shops is that they can't talk to women normally as though we don't ride, don't mech, don't spend lots of money etc. That's the bit that irritates me and that I don't understand. Although, again interestingly, walking into a shop with a Mayhem buff seemed to get instant respect (after they'd asked if we'd ridden)

    So whoever it was above who said LBS where the service is good and internet as a back up/extra.

    OrangeChammy
    Free Member

    I actually feel sorry for my LBS (and others in my area that I have used in the past). There seems to be a number of issues at the moment – one is the massive increase in trade (and therefore RRP) cost on parts – i.e I went into my LBS and it was going to cost £55 for an XT BB – I can get the part for around £25 if shopping online! It is impossible for most shops to have the cashflow hold the amount of stock needed to satify all types of customer, and despite mt best efforts at supporting my LBS I find it harder to do so when you have to pay full price and wait 2 weeks, when it is easy to get cheaper and next day.

    Before all the web retailers, the business was different and shops could stock more as there was only one place people could go – it seems very catch 22, the more folk buy online, the less likely shops are able to make enough money to carry all the stock needed to compete for cost and choice, a vicious circle?

    Also, cycling now has more disciplines and industry standards, therefor a lot of products needed to meet demands of each market – not that long ago you just had roadbikes and hardtail MTBs.

    I think shops should play to their strengths, if they have a good workshop – focus on that and expand it, I know my local multiple chain shop has less choice and is a much poorer stocked shop that 2-3 years ago, but is still booked 3-4 weeks in advance for the workshop!!! I dont think you need to be a rocket scientist to see where demand is.

    hora
    Free Member

    People forget that "LBS's" have a cash till as their focal point.

    Lets not forget that.

    cycleworlduk
    Free Member

    i disagree…my focal point in the shop shifts depending on the customer…usually its the newest bike/wheel/pair of oakleys/kettle etc….

    i wouldnt go in any shop where the till was the main focus…maybe you think that because youve not been in a good bike shop for years

    Edric64
    Free Member

    I have a small family bike shop near me .It sells the usual hybrids and bmx bikes for kids .It does not stock much higher end stuff but without fail will always get anything I want within a few days and phone me to let me know.It's this reliability that keeps me going back ,other lbs's locally don't bother to order stuff quickly or moan about minimum orders

    hora
    Free Member

    maybe you think that because youve not been in a good bike shop for years

    Shop. Yes, its a shop. I wish folk would stop pretending that bike shops are something else. They are there to take money off you. Thats their primary purpose.

    stevet
    Free Member

    Not much in the way of a decent local lbs to me, The only one local to me is very small and pushes far to hard to sell you ANYTHING in the shop, Went in and asked to look at pedals to be told they dont stock pedals and then tried to sell me something completely different

    However if i travel a few miles, Activ cycles in folkstone and The Hub Cycle Shop in Sandgate have been excellent, Charged about £10 more on CRC prices for Cassette, chain and cables and i could physically look at them and walk out the store with shiny bits !

    hora
    Free Member

    Thats another thing- why do bike shops charge a fortune for inner and outer cable? ESPECIALLY outer. WTF. Just boggo-stuff.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    hora – Member

    "People forget that "LBS's" have a cash till as their focal point.
    Lets not forget that."

    TBH I think a lot of LBSs need to be reminded of that, that's the problem.

    enfht
    Free Member

    I'm still looking for a decent lbs. One shop where I used to live didnt want to help me source my mtb and seemed happy to just sell their affiliated brand with no bikes over 500 quid, maybe because they assumed I would have them do the legwork then by it elsewhere/online, I dont know. My current lbs is apparantly run by a very moody bugger and the next nearest couldnt fit a crank for 3-4 weeks so I bought the tools myself. Another bike shop near where I work tried selling the wife a bike that was clearly too big for her so thats another cossed off my list. I'm sure there are good shops out there but in terms of consistent customer service I cant fault my online providers. If I do ever come across a decent lbs I would be happy paying a slight premium compared to online prices.

    Zulu-Eleven
    Free Member

    I think this is a case where the public need to thank European trading/competition laws!

    I work on the supply side of the bike industry, (no names, no pack drill!)

    i) RRP is only a guide, retail price maintenance is illegal, however there are certainly "gentlemen's agreements" in place (between both supplier/retailer and retailer/retailer), but if a price shagger decides to pump it out at next to cost, there's really nothing that can be done.

    ii) Grey import is a huge problem for suppliers, if someone in the UK buys from another source in Europe, theres nothing that can be done – plus there are people who make a living trading OEM stock from one source to another and then onto another that makes it difficult impossible to trace – if you've got cash to spend, you can get anything you want for a good price with a quick trip to the Benelux.

    iii) The big guys often don't get much better prices than stocking in retailers, most brands really want to encourage IBD's to stock their product.

    iv) There are two main types of IBD – those who invest in stock, and those who don't, as you'd expect the ones who invest, get a much better price, as they take a big risk – theres a fair number of the latter type of IBD who expect full margin for basically, ordering something in and opening the box. IMO its these guys who really lose out to the internet retailers. Do I think that some shops take the piss? Yep, some of them expect the moon on a stick, but most are happy with a reasonable margin.

    v) There's three types of internet retailers: those who run a shop and then have a website on the side, its a good way to increase sales but clearly never going to be the dominant power and money spinner that the big boys are, the big boys, who really, really do run a slick operation, but to be fair they invest a lot (and I mean a lot) in stock, and theres the guy selling from his shed/bedroom, most of the big guys will no longer touch them.

    Realistically, for a brand it really, really does pay to support the LBS stockists as much as possible, most sales are still through LBS, and the key customers here are the ones who stock in your brand – and if your brand gets shagged out then it becomes devalued, and people refuse to stock it, which is death for your overall sales figures. Theres more than enough cake for everyone to get a slice.

    Unfortunately for both manufacturer and retailer, theres always some clever shite that will get some grey product and shag it out at no margin, they make very little out of it (turnover does not equal profit!) – but devalue the product, so shops stop stocking it, importers don't invest in stock, spare parts or support, the downward spiral begins and so who loses out in the long run? yep, you guys, you've got both the biggest benefit (savings) and ultimately the biggest loss at the same time…

    its certainly an interesting trade!

    hora
    Free Member

    Firstly Zulu-Eleven, thank you for the insight.

    theres a fair number of the latter type of IBD who expect full margin for basically, ordering something in and opening the box

    Yep I've been to a few of those AND I can name a couple really easily. Its the way they treat you. They want blood/your sworn allegiance and they would look at you oddly if they noticed you bought a frame etc elsewhere.

    I'm guessing but one way to stop punters from guilty buying elsewhere is the weekly shop rides huh? Keep an eye on your customers.

    Dickyboy
    Full Member

    Anyone else remember the Freewheel (later Madison Cycles) mail order catalogue with the hand drawn pictures of bike parts from c.1980? I was pushed towards the mail order route after being talked down to by an LBS and although I like the internet shopping route I'm sure it's been instramental in me buying a hell of a lot more stuff than I really ought to 😳

    hora
    Free Member

    Common lines I learnt to spot
    "Thats worn/finished, you will need a brand new one" (NUMEROUS times).
    I think they clock you as 'all the gear' (not what you lot think – but 'money to spend' is how I'd define 'all the gear' to a bike shop.

    "Labour to build a bike costs £100+the parts and sundries costs" (how long were they building it for?)
    "Sorry we don't stock them as they are actually not very good"
    😆

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 90 total)

The topic ‘And you still gets slagged off for buying online (LBS content)…….’ is closed to new replies.