In this thread I droned on about cup and cone hubs –

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/top-tip-for-those-with-cup-cone-hubs-especially-new-ones

We've just sold Mrs PPs Rock Lobster and I'm servicing it for the new owner. The rear hub felt fine, but I stripped it anyway and was rewarded for greasing it from new with cones looking like this –

Hubs are Deores, about 3.5 years old, and have been through all manner of crappy conditions. I think I've done them twice since they were new.
I think that prooves my point. 😉
Super-silly smooth now they are back together. 😀

Good to see proof.

if you wanted proof you should have only regreased one side. you can have no real idea what that particular hub would have looked like without your treatment.

cup and cone hubs require much higher tolerances and more expensive machines to fabricate. cartridge bearings require a cnc machine and hammer.

proof that PP is obsessed with balls …

Proof that for cost effective filth riding you can't beat Deore hubs.
Don't confuse them with the M475 hubs that appear as original equipment on many mid price bikes, these definitely AREN'T up to the job.

Or you could try my 2004 Hope XC front hub that is still on its original bearings (no maintainance, still silly smooth and no play. The rear hub still has it's original hub bearings but has had a new free body this year with bearings due to a worn out pawl housing. Much easier that stripping and re-building C&C hubs 2 or 3 times a year!

LOO @ SFB! 😀

if you wanted proof you should have only regreased one side. you can have no real idea what that particular hub would have looked like without your treatment.

I didn't WANT proof. I wanted long lasting hubs! And the other side is the freehub, which has been replaced in that time, so has newer cones…..
🙂

Don't confuse them with the M475 hubs that appear as original equipment on many mid price bikes, these definitely AREN'T up to the job.

I've just built a cheap 475 up actually. The only difference I can see is that it's not as well sealed. So you're probably right, but let's see how long it lasts with the same treatment. 🙂
(Well, nearly the same treatment. I got it secondhand, so it didn't get grease from new. It's nice and smooth now though.)

Or you could try my 2004 Hope XC front hub that is still on its original bearings (no maintainance, still silly smooth and no play. The rear hub still has it's original hub bearings but has had a new free body this year with bearings due to a worn out pawl housing.

Err sorry: I've got a Hope XC in the garage that's about 6 months older than that Deore, and it's totally FUBAR. 2 snapped axles, 3 sets of bearings (Although the first set lasted 2 years) 2 sets of pawls and a shagged ratchet ring. I've just replaced it with the aforementioned Shimano M475… 🙂

Much easier that stripping and re-building C&C hubs 2 or 3 times a year!

See, I beg to differ: It's easier and cheaper to undo a cone and locknut, clean inside and regrease with 50p's worth of bearings than driving out and installing 4 cartridges, and regreasing the pawls as well!
And done properly with decent grease, once a year is plenty. 😀

But I digress, that isnt the point of this thread. 🙂

dunno, once i'd done one wheel i managed to replace the bearings in the other front wheel of my car in about the same time a it take to rebuild a c&C hub. And these were proper man sized bearings no 6001 nonsense there 😯

Not knocking C&C bearings, but………..
Shimano hubs are heavy
Shimano hubs are soft (I managed to rip the disk rotor off an XT hub!)
Shimano free hubs arent servicable

If hope made a C&C hub I'd be all over it like a rash on a teenagers jangly bits.

I'll have the "FUBAR'd" Hope one off you then…

I'm keeping it for spares for the XC on my other bike, but there's not much that's any use TBH.

I do like Hope XC hubs, mind. Very good bits of kit. 🙂

Shimano free hubs arent servicable

I'm told they are if you make a special tool …

PeterPoddy – Member

Err sorry: I've got a Hope XC in the garage that's about 6 months older than that Deore, and it's totally FUBAR. 2 snapped axles, 3 sets of bearings (Although the first set lasted 2 years) 2 sets of pawls and a shagged ratchet ring. I've just replaced it with the aforementioned Shimano M475…

User error?

Replacing cartridge bearings is simple and straightforward if you know how to do it properly. Maintining hope hubs is simle and straightforward.

so you know how to maintain cup and cone but not catridge bearing hubs.

Myslef I prefer 20 th cent engineering to 19th.

I prefer long life, complete rebuilbability and simplicity to faf and non rebuildability

Replacing cartridge bearings is simple and straightforward if you know how to do it properly. Maintining hope hubs is simle and straightforward.

Oh yes indeed it is. But no easier or faster than C&C hubs. And certainly no cheaper!
It's the same process in many ways, strip hub, clean, fit new parts, grease, reassembe. But balls just fall out, and cartridges have to be driven out. And by heck do they need some driving sometimes! 🙂

User error?

Nope: Snapped axles? That's just weak alloy! 🙂 The last snapped axle I had caused flex inside which mashed the pawls into the ratchet, turning my bike into a fixie….

Neiter type is good or bad really, both have their fans and their strengths and weeknesses. Pro 2s have better axles and pawls, but astonishingly crap bearings for instance, (which is why I prefer XCs over them) 🙂
Nothing wrong with 19th century engineering either. Look at your chain and sprockets for proof of that!

Has your full-stop turned into a 🙂 ?

I prefer long life, complete rebuilbability and simplicity to faf and non rebuildability

So do I. Which is why I'm edging back towards C&C hubs. And they're dirt cheap, too, which is more to the point for me.
4 years out of a £100+ Hope, or 4 years out of a cheap Deore? Hmmmmmmmmm
😉

EDIT
It has to be said I mash rear wheels in general, hubs, rims, spokes, freehubs, the lot. I'm just hard on them and that's the way it is.

Snapped axles? That's just weak alloy!

I believe they supply Stainless steel axles for fatties 😈

Won't for a second convince me that the extra spent on a decent cartridge bearing hub is worth it over shimano.
1x 2000 Hope XC hub, one set of replacement bears, one snapped axle 😳 , one replacement rotor ring, I can live with that over 10 years & 1000's of miles use.

believe they supply Stainless steel axles for fatties

You know I asked them about steel axles when I rang up to get my first broken one replaced. They never said anything about them. I'd pay good money for a steel axle, TBH. That's fixing the fault properly and that's worth it in my book.

Nope: Snapped axles? That's just weak alloy!

It's also to do with the Hope (and lots of cartridge bearing hubs) design which effectively cantilevers the axle from the wheel side of the freehub body, rather than the Shimano design that supports the axle from the end of the cassette hub (nearest the frame).

PeterPoddy – Member

………………………
Nothing wrong with 19th century engineering either. Look at your chain and sprockets for proof of that

I hate chains as well 🙂

Fair points tho

Brant, yes that makes sense. They both snapped between the freehub and the hub body, so I guess that's where the leverage is highest?

TJ, In the interests of science I'm just trying to work out which has been cheaper for us, Deore or Hope rear hubs…

The Deore has had probably 2 sets of new bearings (50p each say) and a new freehub, which was upgraded to XT by buying a complete XT hub. IIRC that was £28 at the time. Let's say £30.

My Hope XC had 2 sets of bearings (Cheapish Ebay ones) at about £8-£10 a set, one full set of pawls and springs (£13-ish??) and 2 new axles (£12-ish but I got them free off Hope)

So in about the same time, they've cost about the same (Roughly, if you discount the free axles) price to keep running.

Inconclusive then….
😉

……..The difference being, of course, that the £120 Hope is now a pile of scrap on my workbench and the £20 Deore/XT hybrid is happily on it's way to a new owner. 🙂

Def user error.

The XC I currently have on the back of my Turner dates from 2000 or 2001. I stuck new bearings in last year. Pawls and rachet ring are still fine. The hub must have done 15,000 miles easy. I snapped the axle once, but it only took £9 and 10 mins to swap a new one in. That's been fine, even on a 6" travel frame I ride like a blind monkey.

I have 3 other sets of Hopes. They're all smashing. I keep pondering something more FR for the rear of the Turner, but the XC seems to hbe happy enough, unlike the DT 5.1s which are getting pretty square …

that the £120 Hope

Rubbish, new axle, some new bearings and a rachet ring, it'll be good to go for another 10,000 miles.

>I think that prooves my point.

Not really, you'd need some valid comparison point to observe the difference your pre-emptive maintenance has had.

Not really, you'd need some valid comparison point to observe the difference your pre-emptive maintenance has had.

Post a thread asking how long a Deore hub lasts for everyone else. Go on. I dare you….. 🙂

Rubbish, new axle, some new bearings and a rachet ring, it'll be good to go for another 10,000 miles.

Axle – £13
Bearings – £10
Pawls & springs – £15
Ratchet ring £????

Gotta be £50+ total. Plus posting the wheel to Hope.
Simply uneconomical.
And it won't be good for 10k. It'll need more expensive bearings, axles and pawls during that time.

I thought about rebuilding it for about 10 seconds
But I had a complete wheel with a trashed rim I'd bought as an 'investment' for £5 including cassette and disc, so instead of solving the problem by blowing £50 without thinking, I solved it with skill and built myself a decent workable wheel from the bits I had available to me, and still managed to get out on a ride the day after….. 🙂

Def user error.

And you're what, 4 stone lighter than me? That's why yours last so long! 😀

Although it has to be said it's possible that I'd got a 'Friday afternoon' hub. We'll see: I've got a new XC on the Pitch which did fine in the Alps, but will never get as many miles as the Inbred. Hopefully I can keep that one going for longer. 🙂

My wife's more hard core than yours! She can kill a Shi*mano c and c rear wheel in a couple of months. 😉

Not really, you'd need some valid comparison point to observe the difference your pre-emptive maintenance has had.

Post a thread asking how long a Deore hub lasts for everyone else. Go on. I dare you…..
So now after the TJ clause on the helmet might not have save your life, we have the peterpoddy clause on the greasing might have saved your hub 😉

She can kill a Shi*mano c and c rear wheel in a couple of months.

Doesn't that make you a less "hard core" spannerer than Pete?

And it won't be good for 10k. It'll need more expensive bearings, axles and pawls during that time.

Well OK, but my experiance is that they won't 😉

I used to blow shimmy freehubs up left right and centre too, not just get hacked off fiddling around with C&C, so that, for me, was a factor. Shimmy freehubs are almost as expensive as the entire hub, way worse than Hope spares.

I used to blow shimmy freehubs up left right and centre too,

Too much coasting: Pedal more.

😉

Shimano hubs are the best value for money you can get, and excellent performers. science fact.

Too much coasting: Pedal more.

Coasting is for softies, real gnar riders are WCA like, fixed 😀

Too much coasting: Pedal more.

You've been on rides with me, you know its not about the pedalling – its about the cake 😎

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm…….. Cake……………..

PeterPoddy – Member

TJ, In the interests of science I'm just trying to work out which has been cheaper for us, Deore or Hope rear hubs…

You need to cost up your time as well.

I have 2 sets of hope wheels. The front on the solo has required new bearings. took me 15 mins to change them. The rear on the tandem had to go back to hope for free repair when the freehub ratchet ripped. Never left me stranded

The shitmano tandem rear – 3 sets of bearings and 2 freehubs in under a year. Stranded me twice. Hours of time attemping to fix. its now scrap.

So for me its hope all the way

Photoshopped.

I reckon they've only been polished up by the tonnes of grinding paste that has passed through them anyway 😉