I'm speccing up my Five build at the moment, and am 90% decided on SLX drivetrain throughout. However, I have a nagging feeling that a couple of months down the line I'll wish I'd put XT 10 speed on (if only for bragging rights!). I'm not entirely convinced by Shimano's 10 speed implementation though – all it'd really gain me is an extra 34 tooth cog at the back (of limited usefullness due to chainline limitations. And what if I don't want to spend my life in the middle ring?). Big woop.

XT is going to cost ~£150 more… (but that money could potentially be used towards replacing my current Juicy 7s with Hope X2s or for speccing Revelation Teams rather than Races).

Thoughts please!

Go for the forks, the difference probably wont be worth £150 but it will be a bigger difference than the extra gear!

Wait a month and get X.9/X.7 10 speed.

I'd do it myself, future proofing to a degree. Depends how much of a hurry you're in though.

Edit: actually neither X.9 nor X.7 are due until 22 September. Although SLX 10 speed is due in the next 3 weeks, as you were considering SLX, I'd go with that.

I have a Five frame waiting to be built, a very tired Rockhopper, and a British summer that won't last forever! In other words, I want it NOW! 😀

It's not really future proofing is it. Your nine speed stuff still works just the same despite there being a higher numbered option available.

I think there is a potential benefit with the 36T cassettes as you can make a better case for 1 x 10 if you're on 2 x 9 now and 2 x 10 if you insist on having the higher gears.

If I wanted to go 1 x 10, would I need derailleur, front chain ring and chain on top of Cassette and shifter?

10 speed will become the norm inevitably so I'm just going to use up my stock of 9 speed cassettes/chains and wear my 9 speed stuff into the ground and then replace with 10 speed…probably get a couple of years out of existing bits/stock though (Still got some flood sale CRC cassettes 😀 )

You'd need derailleur, shifter, chain and cassette but the exisitng chainring would be fine.

And what if I don't want to spend my life in the middle ring?

Might be talking out of my arse here, as I'm not up to speed on full sussers, but don't single pivot bikes like the Five rotate about the middle ring? So it would make more sense to have a drivetrain that allowed you stay in that for most of your riding?

I've got 3 full ~1% worn 9 speed drivetrains from various bikes i've stripped down in the last year, should keep me rolling for a good couple of years I reckon.

I run 8 speed, it has yet to ruin my life.

Word from Madison is that there is no actual plan in place to discontinue 9 speed at the moment so expect it to remain fairly current for a few years yet.

but don't single pivot bikes like the Five rotate about the middle ring?

You are talking out of your arse 🙂

The pivot point is near the middle ring which means it's more neutral in the middle ring. If you are in the little ring then it's firmer, and more plush in the big ring.

This is only a very subtle thing though, and it can work to your advantage. But if a hill is steep enough to require 32/34 then you are not flowing up it, so you will want to be in the little ring anyway for the extra firmness.

Oh, Ok…like I said then… 😀

Build it 9 speed now.
Ride it now.

One day, lots of bits will be worn and need replacing. That's the time to consider 10 speed.

cynic-al – Member

I run 8 speed, it has yet to ruin my life.

Yep but you always sound miserable to me 😉

I'd go 10 speed fella.. quality 9 speed will inevitably be harder to find in a couple of years…especially when 11 speed comes in 🙄

The way I'd look at it is, "I've got £150 extra to put towards the bike, how is that best spent?"

If the answer is "10-speed" I'd say go for it, if it isn't…

9spd and spend the spare 150 quid going places to ride it.

cynic-al – Member
I run 8 speed, it has yet to ruin my life.

+1

Stick to the SLX 9spd and get the better fork, that will have more effect on the ride…
The SLX mech should be 10spd capable down the line if you really want it later, and will be perfectly durable and functional for the purposes of flicking a chain about on a 9spd cassette for now.
It would simply be a chain/cassette/shifter upgrade, why bother with 10speed if you don’t absolutely need a 36t top ring?

Regardless of the claims 10speed isn’t the revolution that SRAM/Shimano would claim, it is just and extra cog, plus I’m not sure the Bragging rights would go too far, MTBers will largely be unimpressed, and non-cyclists will simply not care that you have a “30 speed bike”

Look at it this way, 9 speed has been the norm now for about a decade, it’s perfectly sufficient, you can still get hold of 7/8 speed parts should you need them and most shimano mechs are forwards/Backwards compatible so “future proofing” doesn’t really seem to be a problem based on previous experience, there really is very little advantage in being an “Early adopter” when the old stuff is widely available and works rather well…

why would anyone need a new mech just becuase you change it 10 gears the mech dont care does it? Still fits same size wheel suspecta 7 speed mech would probably still work.
Possibly some benefits of 2 x 10 but it is just the next new thing to make us all buy some mor estuff. Suspect like othere s I iwll wait till 9 speed stuff breaks and my supplies run out so a long time.
Possibly if I could ride 1 x 10 would be more likely but I aint got the legs for that

molgrips – Member

but don't single pivot bikes like the Five rotate about the middle ring?

You are talking out of your arse

The shimano crap in the adverts suggests that the middle ring thing has advantages for full sus bikes.

I'd go with forks or better brakes, as these will be more noticeable than the extra gears.

Junkyard…they are playing about with actuation ratios…diff shifters now pull diff amounts of cable so XO XTR are not compatible despite both being 9 speed!

It's far more complex than that whytetrash!

Shimano 9 speed: 2:1
SRAM 9 speed: 1:1
SRAM 10 speed: 0.8:10
Shimano 10 speed: something different again:1

So theoretically 10 speed will need a new rear mech.

Also… SRAM and Shimano 10 speed cassettes will not be interchangeable apparently. Shimano ones use their 'single-direction' chain, and the spacing is slightly different.

So not only will your mech and shifters have to match, but theoretically your chain and cassette will also have to be the same groupset.

That's the official line, I suspect in practice it will be more blurry than that and some combinations will work satisfactorily/perfectly.

If the 9 speed mechs were compatible for shift ratios, you may or may not have needed different jockey wheels anyway.

I have a Santa Cruz Bullit, it pedals acceptably in the middle ring, but is a pogoing pig in the little chain ring. Anything that lets me use middle more would be a useful benefit for this bike. Like I said earlier, the extra gear will make it easier to run 1 x 10 too. So not completely pointless, though I appreciate the luddites will always prefer their 7 speed cassettes. Until you point out that before 7 speed there were 'other' numbers too, then they get confused.

The size of chainring itself does not determine the suspension action.

Those of us who run 8s or whatever are not stating that everyone else should too(as you appear to assume). I run it cos it's cheaper, shifting is more reliable and it's good enough for me & my riding.

whytetrash – Member
Junkyard…they are playing about with actuation ratios…diff shifters now pull diff amounts of cable so XO XTR are not compatible despite both being 9 speed!

Eh?

Shimano have always stuck to a 2:1 pull ratio, SRAM 1:1, while the 2 companies shifters/mechs won’t talk to each other a “9 speed” shimano mech will move however far the 2:1 pull shimano shifter at the other end tells it to, if it happens to be 8 speed shifter then it will move a bit further each shift, if it’s 10 then it moves a smaller distance, the mechs are basically passive…

Thus current SLX mechs should operate with future 10 speed cassettes and shifters (as far as I know, feel free to correct me)…

Edit after reading njee 20's post——-

So have SRAM simply copied their 10 speed Roadie groups for XX hence the 0.8:1 pull?

I still thought Shimano were sticking with 2:1 right across the board (what is their 11 speed road kit using?), I know my current SLX mech is very happy running 8 speed, I was under the impression the SLX mech remains unchanged for 2011 you simply have the option of a 10spd Cassette/shifter/chain, hence I assume the 10spd kit is still 2:1 pull…

Edited, after cookeaa edited his post!

So have SRAM simply copied their 10 speed Roadie groups for XX hence the 0.8:1 pull?

Yep!

hence I assume the 10spd kit is still 2:1 pull…

No, apparently the new 10 speed Shimano is different, we shall see!

The chainring has a big effect on suspension action, certainly on my bike when you compare a 22t with a 34t – the pedalling force on the suspension acts along the line of the bit of the chain under tension, the line is very different in the two chain rings and the suspension is sensitive to it.

Hmmm,

I remember them pulling a similar trick with “STX” and “STX-RC” one was apparently 7 speed only the other 8 speed, and STX could not be could not be used for 8spd, although I got my plain STX to operate with 8 speed just fine, so far as I could tell the difference was a sticker, I suspect “SLX” and “SLX – Dyna sys” will be a similar bag of bollocks, given the Cassette is no wider, merely a finer pitch between sprockets (as was the case with 8/9 speed)…
We shall indeed see…

I went SLX 9 speed 🙂

ive been running ten on my cyclo cross bike for nearly three years now – its a dog – slightest bit of mud and its all over the shop, unecessary, makes riding in mud a bitch (unless you like ghost shifting) and costs more

I still run 8 on my mtb too…

10 speed mechs may feature different jockey wheels that may make a difference to shift performance. You may not notice the difference though as it wouldn't show as a fault. Or it's just a different sticker.

I only run 8 on my MTB as I wasn’t prepared to ditch a perfectly functional shifter and Cassettes and Chains are marginally cheaper, I won’t claim the shifting is better or worse than 9spd, just “clunkier” (perhaps sounds/feels a bit more reassuring) it works that’s about it really…
My road bike is 9spd, even my DH bike is 9spd…
I’m sure one day I’ll own a 10spd bike, but I can’t see me going out of my way to buy it now…

paulrockliffe – Member
The chainring has a big effect on suspension action, certainly on my bike when you compare a 22t with a 34t – the pedalling force on the suspension acts along the line of the bit of the chain under tension, the line is very different in the two chain rings and the suspension is sensitive to it.

Nope, it's the increase in tension due to the smaller chainring. Try riding 22-22 then 34-34 – same gear, different chainline.

Only my winter commuter is 9 speed, and it's annoying, as swapping my Power Tap wheel means swapping cassettes, I suspect that'll be 10 speed before too long!

A BIG problem for me I hear is that you cannot refit 10 speed chains with a quicklink?

I often remove chains in the winter with the SRAM quicklink to give them a quick wash with muc-off in and old milk bottle. The 10sp chain joiners i understand to be non removeable.

That kills 10speed for me. On my road bike I happily use Shimano 10 speed and despite being a bit more "sensitive" to accurate set up, has proved quite reliable over the last year. On MTBs I think 9 speed with the 11-34 sprocket option gives all the range I need…I'm sticking with it..

SRAM Powerlocks are not reusable (as implied by the name), KMC ones can be joined and divided to your heart's content, I don't know how Shimano ones are joined, but the road groups have gone to a quick-link in their latest incarnation, so I'd guess the new ones would.

Seb_C – Member
I went SLX 9 speed

POSTED 22 HOURS AGO #

I was gonna tell you to 😛 I just bought new shifters (XT 9 speed!), was contemplating waiting and upgrading everything to 10 speed when it comes out, but then decided that wasn't much point because I don't use all my gears anyway!

I'm sure you'll but better forks / brakes (/extra money) to better use than an extra gear, especially when its highly possible that 9 speed stuff will go through a phase of being cheap before being discontinued (i.e. time to upgrade to 10…or stock up on spares!)

molgrips – Member

The pivot point is near the middle ring which means it's more neutral in the middle ring. If you are in the little ring then it's firmer, and more plush in the big ring.

A classic even for you? How can the what chain ring you are in alter the suspension plushness?

It can alter the reaction to pedalling yes – bob will alter with different ratios and rings but the response of the suspension to bumps cannot be affected in any way

Regardless of the claims 10speed isn’t the revolution that SRAM/Shimano would claim, it is just and extra cog

Nope.. no it isnt.
I've been riding it for over two months. this is how i qualify my statement.

TandemJ – the response of the suspension CAN be impacted by which chainring you're in IF you're pedalling when you hit the bump.