I couldn’t think of a more eloquent way of phrasing my thread title but my problem is thus – I recently applied for an internal position at work ( fairly big company 1000 employees) I went through a fairly lengthy interview process, and I know I got down to the last two.

Now, I didn’t get the job but I know that the person who did is less qualified than me. Am I in any way entitled to ask them to show me how they scored me vs the other guy?

Of course

You can ask for feedback. They don’t have to give you any.

Having been in the position of having to interview and select folk, I’d also point out that you wouldn’t be the first to feel aggrieved at what they felt was an unfair selection process. I’ve been accused of all sorts of prejudice – none of it justified.

I just accepted a post which I know for a fact had a more immediately qualified applicant- they took me on because they thought I was the right person and could be trained up, whereas she’s the wrong person despite being already trained. It’s not just an arms race.

Ask for feedback if you wish but do be prepared for it to be hot air, it always has been for me, even after interviews where I knew I’d made an arse of it I’ve always had polite nothings.

yes but you need to ask what good can come of it

It is highly unlikely you will be able to prove they “screwed” you over unless they are really stupid
Approach it as a learning experience rather than trying to find out why they screwed you over

I feel your pain but the whole point was too choose someone and it was not you. It will be difficult to prove it was anything other than fair and you will possibly look like a “bad” employee in future promotions

Your Union rep

I’ve been accused of all sorts of prejudice – none some of it justified.

Corrected your typo

Aye, if you get an answer, you may not like it.

druid – none of it?

Ok Al – you got me.

There was that one-eyed, black, lesbian, jew…

… that turned up on a fixie.

I’ve already asked for feedback and not received it. I suppose to be more specific then, what I need to know is do they have any legal obligation to be transparent?

I can understand why the most qualified person (on paper) is not always a dead cert but in this instance I know the job was mine until my line manager prevented me from getting it. This has not been relayed to me, but I know it’s the case. He also made a rhetorical remark when I applied warning me that he could prevent me from progressing.

What do you esxpect them to tell you, that you where the wrong colour, sex, gender alignmnet or they just didnt want you.

Best to just put it down to experience.

No – you’re not entitled to ask.

You are only entitled to ask if you are at risk of redundancy, and then you can only ask for your scores.

But entitled to ask doesn’t mean you shouldn’t ask. Request some feedback – qualifications aren’t everything and there may be something you need to work on.

I’ve just gone through similar. The feedback I got was people didn’t like my old boss and that makes me somehow tainted….. Not impressed with that feedback in the slightest.

they wont admit to what you think happened and wont be as stupid as leave a paper trail

It does happen but you will never prove it

muddyfunster – Member
in this instance I know the job was mine until my line manager prevented me from getting it.

There you go then. If you already know the reason, why bother asking?

You can’t have the other person’s scores, Data Protection Act an’all that.

Don’t bother asking. You probably know the answer, either your face don’t fit or the other person has much more potential than you.

My advice is pul your socks up, put up and shut up 😉

druidh

There you go then. If you already know the reason, why bother asking?

Because they lied to me. And I invest my time and money in applying for the other post. And I obviously wanted the job and believe I been treated unfairly.

I am trying to gauge where I stand before going any further. I don’t see why I should just roll over and say yeah, nice one guys, you f888ed my career….I’ll just sit here and smile?!

djglover
Don’t bother asking. You probably know the answer, either your face don’t fit or the other person has much more potential than you.

My advice is pul your socks up, put up and shut up

I’m amazed that so many people subscribe this “put up and shut up” mind set. What a bunch of whipping boys.

no kick up a huge fuss argue about how your line manager hates you and stitched you up and you know all this. Do this simply to improve your career prospects I cant see why it wont work

No one is defending what happened but do that which causes least harm to you and that is to do nothing.
Be angry but let it go and move on you will not achieve what you want by asking for scores etc

Junkyard

no kick up a huge fuss argue about how your line manager hates you and stitched you up and you know all this. Do this simply to improve your career prospects I cant see why it wont work

Well he’s not exactly flavour of the month, and his comments to me imo show a premeditated determination to obscure my path, surely that can’t sit well with his superiors?

You know they aren’t going to give you the job?

If its that big a deal then you’ve only got one option. Resign and find something else.

It will be your word against them unless0 you find a smoking gun

they can easily defend it by saying you are unhappy as you did not get the job and saying you are just blaming me and see I told you I was correct about them etc depending on what was said

You are highly unlikely to get the outcome you wish or prove it even though you may well be right
it will more than likely harm you within the organsaition but if you wish to pursue the issue with their superior and use the formal complaints procedure then I wish you luck.

f888ed your career? I doubt it, though you might, if you don’t move on.

What makes you think you were screwed over? You applied for a new job and you didn’t get it, someone else did. Sorry but there is nothing in your OP to suggest that the process or outcome was unfair in any way.

But, I would expect that any reasonable employer to provide you with open honest and constructive feedback as to your interview or test performance etc etc.

When you say the successful applicant was less qualified than you, you need to ask yourself, precisely what you mean by that and why you say it. I am not trying so sound like and ass (admittedly not doing a very good job), but it is a simple expression that we all use and it has just struck me that I don’t really know what it means.

It is your perception of the situation and not necessarily the truth, do you really understand what skills your employer was looking for?

In many companies and roles today so much more emphasis is being placed on core behavioural demonstrative competencies, than 10 or 15 years ago. Not true for all jobs, but true for many especially if no professional qualification is required (e.g. accountant, HR, procurement, plumber, welder etc etc).

It is often the softer skills that are most valued. Now I may be wrong but when people state that they were more qualified than person X then for me they may have completely missed the point.

But I would ask again for feedback.

EDIT. Whooops – I didn’t see the OPs second post. Sorry OP 😳

He’s not “flavour of the month” but he has enough power/authority/influence to persuade someone else to discriminate against you?

If possible, you need to move from this job/company

(or kill and eat your line manager)

Feedback what for?

If they do not want you they will have million of ways to justify their answers.

To be frank … it is a waste of time.

On the other hand if you want to have some explosive fun then by all means kick up a big fuss … shout, swear, scream, or point a Benneli M4 at your boss head and pull the trigger to (make sure the chamber is blank first) see him shite him/herself … that would be fun.

🙂

Sorry. I’m really not coming across the way I’d like to. I am naturally disappointed that you feel you have been let down and I can understand your looking around for someone or something to blame. It’s a natural reaction. However, I really don’t see that there is anything you can reasonably do about it. It’s certainly worth asking the interviewer/selector for some feedback. Just try to do it in a more humble fashion than the way you are coming across here. If you approach it with an open mind, you might learn something to your advantage.

Because they lied to me. And I invest my time and money in applying for the other post. And I obviously wanted the job and believe I been treated unfairly.

I am trying to gauge where I stand before going any further. I don’t see why I should just roll over and say yeah, nice one guys, you f888ed my career….I’ll just sit here and smile?!

They the company you work for PAID you a wage and are continuing to pay you a wage, for whaytevr reason you failed to get the promotion, and somebody else did, THATS LIFE, it happens a lot, from the above experience try to learn or move to another company, there are a lot of fantasticly clevber people currently out of a job, worrying about how to pay the bills,to actually buy food and keep their family together.

muddyfunster – Member

Well he’s not exactly flavour of the month, and his comments to me imo show a premeditated determination to obscure my path, surely that can’t sit well with his superiors?

If your livelihood is at stake are you allowed to rough him up the Kray brothers’ style?

🙂

All you can do is bring a grievance against your boss for unfair treatment.

These get listened to, and fairly dealt with. HOWEVER, if it’s not upheld your boss can bring one against you for trying to undermine him.

Ask for feedback. If you don’t trust your boss ask HR for feedback.

Other than that accept that perhaps qualifications aren’t everything and there’s something you need to work on (or you have bad breath, smell, look strange, etc.).

Life is only fair when it’s going your way……

Right. Thanks guys, I genuinely appreciate you all taking the time to post on my thread and give me advice. I realise that most of you, by telling me to get on with it, are trying to do me a favour and that it would be the wise (or certainly cautious) thing to do. I am also painfully aware that I should bite my tongue, however. If you could imagine for a minute ( buy into my delusion if you must) that I have been wronged.

I can’t go into specifics on here but imagine if you will the role was for a personal trainer, which for the sake of the analogy I have been for ten years, and the person chosen is a 30 stone morbidly obese person who is housebound. Now, I’m using hyperbole but it is extremely black and white. It is, also, for clarity, not a job as a personal trainer. That’s just my analogy. But imagine my frustration.

I will take on board your comments, and temper my actions. But I will take my opportunity to express my displeasure at the situation to my line managers head of department and hr as I will be speaking to them soon. I think some times in life you need to kick some ass, even if it means getting sh*t on your boot.

muddyfunster – Member
I will take on board your comments, and temper my actions. But I will take my opportunity to express my displeasure at the situation to my line managers head of department and hr as I will be speaking to them soon. completely ignore them

Have fun.

Druidh, in my situation I believe it’s neccessary for me, and my collegues that someone speak up against this guy.

Seems as if most of us have wasted our time trying top point you in the right direction, sadly you fail to see the point of listening to our collective advice.

Do go to HR, YOUR BOSS AND ANYONE ELSE, AND SEE JUST HOW FAR YOU GET, YOU WILL PROBABLY BE BRANDED AS TROUBLE AND SLOWLY EASED OUT OF YOUR JOB.

Why not join a union, thats what they used to be for.

scaredypants – Member

or kill and eat your line manager

That’s digusting.

Only eat his heart, that’s how you gain his power!

I believe it’s neccessary for me, and my collegues that someone speak up against this guy.

pick a clearer issue to speak up against your line manger then rather than this and something you can actually prove and make sure your colleagues will back you.

I doubt this is the situation but it may be

And I invest my time and money in applying for the other post. And I obviously wanted the job and believe I been treated unfairly

Speaking as an employer, not an employee, you need to get real. You went for a job and didnt get it, most likely because the other person was better, regardless of what you may think.

Get over it, don’t undermine your boss since if you do and he has any power he’ll cut you out. I would.

in my game, applying for jobs is just that, a game.

my senior manager expects me to apply for jobs, even if they are in places that would be impossible to move to or positions that i wont be successful for, due to other people having been acting in that position and knowing the jo/people inside out.
its all to do with ‘learning to play the game’

this has been a new concept to me, i never applied for a job before that i either didnt want or didnt think i had a better than even chance of being successful.

and i would be frowned upon big style if i didnt ask for feedback when unsuccessful.

your reaction for not being successful is noted by senior managers.

is your knockback a spur to make you do better and prove to your bosses that they made a mistake by not promoting you or a kick in the teeth, where you dont get back up therby justifying their decision that you are not the person for the job.

my 2p worth.

edit – my advice is that you ARE entitled to feedback and you should listen carefully to the feedback and make the changes necessary to enable you to be successful next time.. if you want to get the promotion.

project

Seems as if most of us have wasted our tim

No, not at all. Instead of going off like semtex I’ll try and play the company game. There’s obviously a balance to be struck here.

I might not get the satisfaction that I seek, but I’ll end up out on my ear just as quickly if I feel I’m trapped, mistreated and can’t work as I need to.

Until you become your own boss the people above you are always bunch of genuine tossers. Yes, they are and yes you know who you are. Tossers!

But once you become your own boss you ARE the tosser. Yes, you are. But then you can be the tosser with loads of moneeeyyyyy!

muddyfunster, there is nothing wrong with your reaction as there are plenty of tossers in the world. We are all surrounded by tossers. We are tossers too to people below us.

😀

muddyfunster,

I am sorry that you did not get the job you wanted and felt you deserved. I have only one piece of advice to give, but judging from your last post you probably might not need it.

Resist the temptation to rush whatever you may decide. You are still raw about this and that is not usually a state for making the correct decision. You don’t have to play the company game, although that may turn out to be be the best policy at least in the short term. But don’t make this decision yet. There is a long weekend ahead. Take time to really think about what happened and talk to others about it. But don’t burn your bridges just yet. That’s never a good option but can easily happen in the emotion that follows such a disappointment.

Whatever you decide – good luck.

TH