• This topic has 76 replies, 35 voices, and was last updated 10 years ago by Drac.
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  • Am I being unreasonable?
  • peterfile
    Free Member

    Sorry for the mumsnet type post, but I am feeling rather hacked off.

    * We are recruiting another lawyer to our department.
    * I know someone who is suitable, made it known to the department and started email chat with the potential candidate, including sending over a job spec. They confirmed they were interested.
    * A few days after I started this, the recruitment consultant we had engaged sent over some CVs, including the CV of the person I was already in contact with. I hadn’t yet obtained their CV.
    * Apparently the candidate told the rec con that she was already in dicussions with someone about the role internally, but the rec con said he would send over her CV anyway.

    My company is taking the view that it’s the CV which counts as the “referral”, meaning the rec con is going to be paid for referring someone I was already in discussions with AND I lose out on a pretty significant referral sum myself (which is what this is about really : )

    Is this unfair or am I just being bitter? How can we pay a rec con for referring someone who was already in discussions with us?

    br
    Free Member

    or am I just being bitter?

    This, but you’re a Lawyer so:

    1 We don’t care
    2 See 1

    iainc
    Full Member

    Seems unfair. Employer should prefer to pay referral to staff than externally….., however is there a formal referral policy ? In our place there is, and people need to follow it. From the other perspective, employer needs to keep in with Agency as they will have a relationship, negotiated rates and rules.

    Not clear cut

    footflaps
    Full Member

    This, but you’re a Lawyer so:

    1 We don’t care
    2 See 1

    🙂

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I posted on this 18 months ago. I worked with people from a certain company for several years, due to them being engaged at the same site as me. That company gets bought out by a big one, who I then go and work for a couple of years later. My manager suggests I fill in the employee referral form and nominate one of the guys I worked with because you have to nominate someone.

    He unexpectedly got £3.5k, and pocketed it all. Despite not having been responsible for my employment. Bit annoyed still.

    tinybits
    Free Member

    I’m quite surprised that your firm prefers to pay externally, but yes, I’d say you have every right to be a little aggrieved!

    DT78
    Free Member

    My place encourages referrals, but will not pay any bonus as it could be construed as unfair favouritism for that person getting the job….!!!

    nealglover
    Free Member

    It would all depend on wether you followed the companies referral policy or not.

    Do they have a policy, and did you follow it ?

    mrhoppy
    Full Member

    Did you or did you not secure the persons CV? If you didn’t you had a nice chat with someone.

    stufive
    Free Member

    WTF this really happens….Talk about money for nothing 😯

    tinybits
    Free Member

    Do you have any idea how much it costs to recruit someone? It’s a small part of the total cost, and far better than giving £10k+ to a recruitment agency!

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Are you at work on STW by any chance? 🙂

    footflaps
    Full Member

    far better than giving £10k+ to a recruitment agency!

    and the rest!

    boxfish
    Free Member

    Sue your employer. That’ll teach ’em.

    edlong
    Free Member

    You’re being bitter. You may have had a chat with the candidate, but the agency beat you to it on actually submitting their CV for the appointment. You snooze, you lose.

    peterfile
    Free Member

    You’re being bitter. You may have had a chat with the candidate, but the agency beat you to it on actually submitting their CV for the appointment. You snooze, you lose.

    The more I think about it, the more I am realising that this is the answer. I’m pissed off at myself 🙂

    I still think it was unprofessional of the rec con to not bother calling or emailing us to discuss the fact that he was planning on sending in a CV for someone we were already in discussions with. My boss seems to agree on that point, so it seems unlikely that he will get any more work from us. First time we have used these guys and not been particularly impressed so far.

    muppetWrangler
    Free Member

    My company is taking the view that it’s the CV which counts as the “referral”

    Should have read the small print. Recruitment consultant done you like a kipper.

    🙂

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    Yes, you’re being massively unreasonable. I’d sack you myself for being so slack. Call yourself a lawyer? 🙂

    😛

    nealglover
    Free Member

    I still think it was unprofessional of the rec con to not bother calling or emailing us to discuss the fact that he was planning on sending in a CV for someone we were already in discussions with.

    [devils advocate]

    He probably asked if they had already submitted a CV.

    They said they hadn’t been asked for one so he thought …..

    “They haven’t applied yet then, and they are perfect for the job, it would be unprofessional of me NOT to put them forward for it”

    [/devils advocate]

    geoffj
    Full Member

    My boss seems to agree on that point, so it seems unlikely that he will get any more work from us. First time we have used these guys and not been particularly impressed so far.

    In which case your firm has nothing to lose by confirming that you were already in discussions with the candidate and telling the rec con to [scouse] do one [/scouse].

    Drac
    Full Member

    [devils advocate]

    He probably asked if they had already submitted a CV.

    They said they hadn’t been asked for one so he thought …..

    “I best get in there quick or they going to think we’re not very good and I won’t be paid silly money for emailing a document”

    [/devils advocate]

    mefty
    Free Member

    At risk of teaching a grandmother to suck eggs, if the consultant has met the requirements to be paid their fee under the contract, then your firm will need to pay up and therefore there is no saving, which is what finances the internal referral fee.

    sugdenr
    Free Member

    Recruitment consultants are aggressive chancers, what kind of lawyer are you FFS, mtfu and fight, the answer is in what you told us the consultant has no valid claim if candidate told them they were already in contact. Tell your mate to inform consultant they no longer act for them.

    thegeneralist
    Free Member

    There’s a lot of misinformation on this thread. It actually boils down to one simple issue: Who did the candidate want and ask to represent them? If they told the recruitment agency that you were representing them then the Rec Agency does not have a leg to stand on. It doesn’t matter a jot who got the CV in first if the person who got there first was not actually authorised to act on behalf of the candidate.

    thegeneralist
    Free Member

    At risk of teaching a grandmother to suck eggs, if the consultant has met the requirements to be paid their fee under the contract, then your firm will need to pay up and therefore there is no saving, which is what finances the internal referral fee.

    Bullshit.

    The issue here is not the contract between the Agency and the Employer, it is between the Agency and the candidate. An agency cannot just lay claim to the candidate like a piece of meat, if the Candidate does not want to be represented by the agency then end of story.

    peterfile
    Free Member

    At risk of teaching a grandmother to suck eggs, if the consultant has met the requirements to be paid their fee under the contract, then your firm will need to pay up and therefore there is no saving, which is what finances the internal referral fee.

    Technically he hasn’t done anything outside of his scope, he asked the candidate if he could send her CV and she said yes (without thinking about the additional cost on our part) but, it just seems a bit underhand that they knew one of the candidates was already in contact with us and didn’t phone/email to discuss before slipping her CV through the door.

    Perhaps I was naive in thinking that someone who wants to work for us in the long term would try to piss us off on their first job?

    Recruitment consultants are aggressive chancers, what kind of lawyer are you FFS, mtfu and fight, the answer is in what you told us the consultant has no valid claim if candidate told them they were already in contact. Tell your mate to inform consultant they no longer act for them.

    I’m assuming you’re familiar with our consultant’s terms of engagement?

    sugdenr
    Free Member

    Recruitment consultants are aggressive chancers, what kind of lawyer are you FFS, mtfu and fight, the answer is in what you told us the consultant has no valid claim if candidate told them they were already in contact. Tell your mate to inform consultant they no longer act for them.

    loum
    Free Member

    HR director’s getting a cut from the agency. They all do. 😉

    wrecker
    Free Member

    Just make it clear that you won’t be referring anyone again.

    vinnyeh
    Full Member

    Your mate’s fault, I reckon.

    Recruitment agents won’t submit cv’s without the candidates approval, precisely to stop this situation when a role is advertised with multiple agencies. He shouldn’t have allowed it to go forward.

    peterfile
    Free Member

    Your mate’s fault, I reckon.

    Probably my fault for not saying “whatever you do, don’t now approach us via a rec con, it will cost us an extra £15k”

    I’m surprised she didn’t realise, but it’s the first time she has dealt with a rec con, so probably didn’t think.

    vinnyeh
    Full Member

    I’m surprised she didn’t realise, but it’s the first time she has dealt with a rec con, so probably didn’t think.

    Aah yes, if she’d not dealt with the slimy wee buggers previously she wouldn’t have known.

    Been caught out before, where had a cv go out with a rate on it the agency says they can’t be bettered, then seen it advertised later on with a better rate at another agency. Nothing you can do about it really, first past the post.

    peterfile
    Free Member

    My anger has now changed to frustration at myself for not being quicker and disappointment that I now won’t be building an Evil Undead 🙁

    thegeneralist
    Free Member

    Apparently the candidate told the rec con that she was already in dicussions with someone about the role internally, but the rec con said he would send over her CV anyway.

    Did the candidate ask the agency to represent them or not?
    Never mind that the reccon said he’s send the cv anyway, did the candidate agree for them to represent her?

    peterfile
    Free Member

    Did the candidate ask the agency to represent them or not?
    Never mind that the reccon said he’s send the cv anyway, did the candidate agree for them to represent her?

    As far as I am aware:

    Candidate was already on the rec con’s books, looking for work for a couple of months.
    I emailed and sent job spec, candidate confirmed to me she was interested. My next email was going to be asking for her CV.
    However, the next email was from her again, saying that just after our last email she had been approached about the same role by her rec con, who had offered to submit her CV for it despite being told that she was already speaking to us, she agreed without thinking of cost implications.

    On reflection, I snoozed and lost, she should perhaps have thought of the cost implications, I should have told her not to deal with rec con after our initial conversation, rec con acted a bit underhand by not contacting us before submitting a CV of someone we were dealing with.

    You live and learn eh 🙂 An expensive lesson in recruitment for me!

    Tom-B
    Free Member

    My what a different world I seem to live in!

    So companies charge 15k for handing someone a CV?

    peterfile
    Free Member

    Pretty much.

    There isn’t really another way to find specialised people though. If you find one then you’d be a very very very rich man 🙂

    Plus, dealing with recruitment in house can make considerable demands on resources/time, things that you don’t have, otherwise you wouldn’t be hiring!

    molgrips
    Free Member

    So companies charge 15k for handing someone a CV?

    Kind of, but not quite – you do have to get hold of the CVs in the first place, and figure out who’s a joker and who’s a good candidate.

    elPedro666
    Free Member

    Is anyone else reading this and just thinking they’re very happy not to exist in a world of petty smallprint and backstabbing? Sounds just like playground nonsense but with lots of other people’s money.

    Which isn’t to say that I’m not sorry you missed out, of course I am, but what a horrible way to have to be.

    peterfile
    Free Member

    That was sort of my point pedro.

    I was feeling pretty happy that I had found someone suitable for our team without to deal with/pay recruitment consultants and making myself a decent bonus, but then I felt shafted after my own discussions with the person were interrupted by a recruitment consultant. I know how to deal with them in future now though, lesson learned.

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