In true grand designs sucker style we have decided to renovate our place with modern-chic grey alu window frames rather than replace with more horridly coloured wood or upvc.

We are becoming acutely aware that this seems to have become the latest fad in home improvement terms and are slightly worried that we’ve been hoodwinked into a trend that may backfire in the not too distant future.

But, the bottom line is that we still like them. Has anyone else taken the plunge? And are there any things I should consider about ally frames before taking the plunge? So far the quotes I’ve had seem OK, and we’ve sourced a friendly local firm that we’d like to go ahead with.

Ral7016 anthracite

what if they have a sale the week after you buy them.

Don’t start!
(I’ll take em back)

I’m not sure if they’ll be anything like it, but we’ve got aluminium framed windows in our 1950s bungalow. They seem to retain the cold, then get covered in condensation, so the room ends up really damp.

But again, I’m not sure if the modern ones will be the same.

Being a window cleaner I see these in quite a few houses. They always seem to hold up well and have yet to see any with defects.
If there good enough for a £10m house that i clean then they cant be that bad.

Assuming modern alu window frames no longer act as a natty conduit for the cold outside to get in, you’ll be fine.

I hope not! I’m half way through a self build and mine are coming on Monday.
5mtr 3 pane sliding doors, French doors, front door and various windows. All in grey 7016

Hi slimjim, we fit a fair few aluminium and upvc sliding door systems and I’m not aware of any thermal efficiency differences between the two, they both seem to work very well.
The glazed units fitted these days are so good the condensation forms on the outside of the glass.
Although more expensive and a bit more of a pain to fit the alloy frames look much nicer because of the thinner frame profiles, the only downside being ,if they get damaged when fitting, it’s a pain to put right.

The aluminium profile should be thermally broken, ie a resin type strip in the aluminium. If there isn’t you will get condensation. It should be fine though, aluminium frames are generally considered better, not entirely sure why. You can also get coloured uPVC. RAL7016 used to be the second most popular colour when I made them.

What stumpyjon said.

Check out the thermal performance of the best aluminium double-glazed frames you can find (I assume that’s what you’re intending to buy) and the cheapest UPVC triple-glazed windows in the colour of your choice. Now compare price. Still want to buy aluminium?

I work in construction, building schools, hospitals, offices, supermarkets etc and I’ve never put in any windows which aren’t aluminium.

I guess my point is that they perform well thermally, are durable, low maintenance and come in any damn colour you want.

Aluminium frames can still condensate in some areas and in certain conditions. The bigger issue is that aluminium is a cold material unlike plastic so it will feel cold to touch. You could go down the hybrid route (metal on the outside, wood inside) if you really want to spend some cash.

I’ll be going plastic when the time comes to replace our 1980’s aluminium jobs, ss you can’t beat the price v’s performance of plastic if you’re not too snobby about it.

Guilty as charged.

Aluminium frames can still condensate in some areas and in certain conditions. The bigger issue is that aluminium is a cold material unlike plastic so it will feel cold to touch.

What a load of rubbish! As above all new aluminium frames have a thermal break.
Of course condensation can form on cold surfaces. It can form on plastic just as easily.
Aluminium frames with thermal break will be more or less the same temperature as the ambient air. Same as plastic frames. Besides it’s not like you go up and caress them or spend time lying against your window frames.
All building materials have to meet standards required for energy conservation so they will perform very well regarding insulating quality.
Get what you like most. Buy the best quality you can afford and have them professionally installed by a FENSA registered company so the warranty is valid.

I replaced all my windows with grey ones – it was what held up my whole renovation job by a couple of months!

I looked at plastic originally, but the only company that makes the frame material without a woodgrain effect (in grey) is Rehau. My local seller, with the best reputation, wouldn’t sell me any because even though there’s a 10 year guarantee on them, there’s only 5 years on the colour-fastness.

I was then going to go for aluminium, but again, the places that sold them said I’d be a idiot to pay a premium for them when the cheaper options were better (insulated, at least).

I was then going to get aluminium-clad wood, but the leadtime was too long as I’d already started knocking my house to bits.

I ended up with Accoya wood (painted with ral7015), which is supposed to last for 50 years… I’ll have to wait and see!

Edit – the best option is alu-clad wood made by the likes of Rationel and Nordan. I’m happy with what I’ve got, but of course they are going to needed painted once in a while.

Out of the two names above, from what I’ve heard from site, Nordan windows are the better product.

Coloured uPVC is alright but you won’t get the thinner profiles.

Velfac.

I checked the performance and price of a 130 x 90cm French opening window from one of the biggest french manufacturers:

Aluminium double glazed 800e, Uw 1.4
PVC double glazed 250e, Uw 1.2
PVC triple glazed 330e, Uw 1.0

Most colours are a 0e option. The economic argument fro PVC is convincing. I’ve noted that aluminium is used in many French public buildings too, civil servants clearly don’t worry about the cost, heating bill or environment when ordering.

Just had 2x 3m bifolds fitted in our new extension and in the usualRAL 7016 and they’re great, a few snags, as mentioned above some minor issues from fitting which can be rectified (I hope)

Velfac.

+1

RAL 7016 seems to be the colour of choice at the moment…

Try Ideal Combi as well as Velfac. I like Velfac as a product but lots of my colleagues have experienced major issues with them during installation (mainly the windows being several weeks late!)

I’ve got some velfac windows in my shed in ral 7012 matt.

Warmer countries tend to go for aluminium as it doesn’t distort when in hot sun, this is why you won’t see much uPVC in France.

The number of panes of glass in the sealed unit has a bigger reduction in the U value than the frame, as does the spacer bar and gas used between the panes. All of which is pretty meaningless when you go and put in the mandatory trickle vents…….

Yeh the old man has gone all aluminium on his house in Spain (brown with an embossed wood grain effect) as wood or plastic just gets destroyed in the sun unless you religiously maintain it every year.

Warmer countries tend to go for aluminium as it doesn’t distort when in hot sun, this is why you won’t see much uPVC in France.

Looking outside every house has UPVC except one that still has it’s original wood frames. We’re at 43°N. No problems with white UPVC which doesn’t get hot even in bright sunshine. It’s painful to put you fingers on a black or dark grey car in mid June but you can comfortably put your hand flat on a white car.

The difference between good aluminium frames with a double thermal barrier and UPVC frames is about 0.2Uw in favour of UPVC, the same as the difference between double and triple glazed all other things being equal. Clearly the glass is more significant in big windows and the frame more significant in small windows. We don’t have to have trickle vents here so I don’t, I’d rather rely on controlled ventilation. A passive house with heat recovery VMC needs to be completely sealed to work.

Another advantage of the deep section PVC frames you get with triple glazing is that it’s possible to continue the wall insulation right into the frame thus reducing or even eliminating the thermal bridge around the frames. I’ve noted that UK house sometimes have good quality double glazing with no condensation on the frames or glass but condensation and peeling wallpaper on the wall around the frames.

PVC triple glazed 330e, Uw 1.0

should be lower than that, mine i had fitted a couple of weeks ago are .8 (not quite passive house as the gas needs to be different for that) i had an exterior wood foil to match the rest of the building and they do a grey which i would have liked but have to stay in keeping with other flats.

.8 is about the best that can be achieved but requires glass that cuts out so much light it’s not pleasant to live with and cuts solar gain so it’s not even more energy efficient in sunny latitudes. In SW France it’s reckoned double glazing is a better better on south facing walls that get winter sunshine. Our triple glazing does cut light at Uw 1.0 and I’m pleased we didn’t opt for glass with treatments that would have cut out even more light.

I’m pondering this at the moment. My oldest mate who works in commercial property development just went for aluminium over uPVC on the basis that in the longer term aluminium is refinish able – i.e.: can be painted – whereas he says that there’s no reliable painting option for plastic.

He also pointed out that no-one is sure of the longer-term resistance of uPVC to UV degradation and finally likes the lower surface area of the frame. All of which make some sense and he does generally have a good idea of what he’s talking about because of his job.

In Denmark all nearly all houses have modern wooden framed double glazing. The climate there isn’t much different to UK so why isn’t wood popular here?

UPVC has been used for windows for 40-50 years and is at least as durable as the other non metal/glass components in a window such as the many rubber seals around the glass and between frame components. It can be recycled several times.

.8 is about the best that can be achieved but requires glass that cuts out so much light it’s not pleasant to live with and cuts solar gain so it’s not even more energy efficient in sunny latitudes

no issues with light transmission here and i’m NE facing and only get direct light for a couple of hours at certain times of the year so losing direct heat from the sun isn’t really an issue.
compared to the dark wooden frames with dirty and blown glazing units i had previously and a larger dummy sash i have more light than before.

I’m not sure if they’ll be anything like it, but we’ve got aluminium framed windows in our 1950s bungalow. They seem to retain the cold, then get covered in condensation, so the room ends up really damp.

This. I had a big alu framed patio door out to our balcony – condensation and heat loss was terrible, from our main living room.

Replaced with uPVC, properly double glazed and the room is noticeably better at retaining heat. As in ‘thermostat down 4C’ noticeable. Did do the rest of the windows at the same time.

In Denmark all nearly all houses have modern wooden framed double glazing. The climate there isn’t much different to UK so why isn’t wood popular here?

I’d like to use wood and technically, living in a conservation area, I should, though given that everyone else in the street seems to have awful wood effect uPVC, it doesn’t seem to have been very strictly enforced. In the UK though it seems to be very expensive and the other downside is the need for regular maintenance.

If it’s any help, here are my old mans Aluminium ones that are made to look like wood: