Alps trip: Do I need a full on dual ply tyre for the back of my hard tail? or…

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  • Alps trip: Do I need a full on dual ply tyre for the back of my hard tail? or…
  • Spin
    Member

    I’ve never used a dual ply tyre in the alps and never had any issues.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Big place, the alps. What sort of trip?

    I’ve used Specialized’s SX carcass tyres for white room stuff for the last 2 years, not as heavy as dualply but pretty tough. Similiar deal to skwabbly supergravity. But if I was taking my hardtail I’d be tempted to throw in a 2.7 dualply 😆

    Premier Icon wallop
    Subscriber

    I used HDs front & rear in the alps last year with no probs. They do wear out quickly though.

    winch
    Member

    Portes du Soleil. i’m 93 kgs before I kit up. You guys that have gone with the supergravity(esque) casings, was that on a hardtail?

    Jeffus
    Member

    single ply minions when i went but the guide said he always rides dual ply, he didn’t mince along like me though…

    Have you ever ridden dual ply? You won’t want to take them off once you have.

    lardman
    Member

    If you’re doing mostly lift accessed, then I would run a dual ply (I did in fact).
    Allows you to run slightly lower pressure, without so much flatting possibility.

    If you’re planning I to ride up stuff much, then it’s a fitness call really.

    Superficial
    Member

    There are some pretty gnarly braking bumps, but besides that the PDS isn’t too rocky / hardcore. I’d probably be more likely to pinch on an XC ride in the peak.

    Having said that, if you’re going to be riding uplifts all day then a) there’s no penalty in running a heavy tyre and b) you’ll do more descending in a week than you would in a year of riding in the UK so the likelihood of problems is that much higher.

    Premier Icon enigmas
    Subscriber

    I did a week in the pds on my blue pig last year, I was using a dual ply schwalbe big betty dh, with a dh tube and didn’t get a puncture, even with the pressures stupid low to try and take the edge of the braking bumps. I bottomed out the tyre and dinked the rim at least a dozen times but never punctured. Mind you the wheel (hope/flow) needed a rebuild but that’s understandable 😀

    winch
    Member

    will a Schwalbe super gravity (HD, RRazor or MagicM) do the trick?

    Also, will I get away with a snakeskin Hans Dampf on the front?

    Another tyre thread, sorry!

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    I’d just stick a dh tube in your existing tyre of choice, providing it’s suitably beefy.

    Premier Icon tomaso
    Subscriber

    Those rock razors puncture for fun – in the UK let alone the Alps.

    If you are tubeless then EXO type single ply tyres with protection will do it, but there is no insurance against sliced tyres quite as comprehensive as dual ply chunky tyres.

    Mbnut
    Member

    If you are going with friends then go dual ply…. save them losing large chunks of valuable riding time waiting around for you to fix punctures.

    godzilla
    Member

    Dual ply every time, buy some holiday tyres, I got three years put of a set.
    A couple of years ago we rode with some lads that where totally unprepared and had to stop at the bottom of every decent, it was a TOTAL pita, as you get over toward the Swiss side it’s very rocky.

    atlaz
    Member

    I went with single ply tubeless tyres last year, no issues. Mate went with brand new EXO tyres, punctured one within the first hour. I’ve got snakeskin Schwalbe for this summer

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    I’ve never used a dual ply tyre in the alps and never had any issues.

    This, the Alps is still just dirt, just at more of an angle

    winch
    Member

    Hmm, mixed responses so far! Tomaso, are you referring to the super gravity version or just the snakeskin version of the rock razor?

    reggiegasket
    Member

    I’ve never used a dual ply tyre in the alps and never had any issues.

    Yes but were you on a HT?

    ..the Alps is a tough place for a HT. Especially at your weight. Last time I was there on a HT I ran a 721 rim and Fat Albert UST rear which was just about okay. My advice is run the toughest rear rim and tyre you can find. Sod the comments about rolling resistance. Go as tough as possible.

    lornholio
    Member

    I’m 80kg rode a hardtail my first summer here in Chamonix (very rocky) with Maxxis EXOs and never had a puncture. EXOs tubeless on a full suspension frame since then and I get a few cuts between the side knobs each year, but the sealant always gets me home carefully to fix it.

    If you’re concerned about weight, go EXO. If you don’t care, dual ply.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    Yes but were you on a HT?

    Only ever used a HT in the Alps. But me, my bike, all my clothes, and kit still don’t weigh 93kg…

    winch
    Member

    But me, my bike, all my clothes, and kit still don’t weigh 93kg…

    😆

    atlaz
    Member

    Sod the comments about rolling resistance. Go as tough as possible.

    It depends on what you’re riding. Park-only then sure but there’s enough other stuff that would be made far less enjoyable by having a draggy tractor tyre out back.

    ndthornton
    Member

    Single ply is fine – as are normal tubes. Some sort of sidewall protection is a good idea. Iv done 3 Megavelanche trips and 2 Morzine trips on Nobby Nic or Hans Damp with 1 puncture in practice so far (touch wood).

    There is one rather large caveat though – PUMP YOUR BLOODY TYRES UP.
    Can’t understand all this low pressure silliness – asking for trouble whatever flavor of rubber turns you on.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    I think there’s a lot of causation influence in these sorts of discussion. The folk that choose dual ply and don’t get punctures will naturally assume its their choice of tyre. The rest of the people who go to the alps with normal tyres and don’t get punctures will assume its OK to use normal tyres.

    Only you can make the call really, if you’re a smasher into rocks kinda rider and puncture 3 times out of 4 rides then dual ply makes sense, if you’re a careful sort, and can’t remember the last puncture you had you’ll probably be ok. The only person to puncture last time I was in the Alps all week was my GF and she’s 54kg… Go figure

    TBH there are worse places in the world to sit and repair a flat

    winch
    Member

    if you’re a careful sort, and can’t remember the last puncture you had

    I’d say I’m pretty careful within the bounds of how careful it’s possible to be when riding a rocky descent like jaccobs ladder at speed. I have quite frequently pinch punctured my snakeskin schwalbes despite them being tubeless.

    What I really would like to know though is are the “super-gravuty” tyres on par with a full on dual ply in terms of pinch protection?

    atlaz
    Member

    TBH there are worse places in the world to sit and repair a flat

    We had two lengthy stops last year; one for a puncture, one because a mate got his bike stuck in an electric fence. Sitting and chatting to passers by, just taking in the scenery or taking the piss out of someone getting repeated electric shocks were pretty fun all things considered.

    Premier Icon johnhe
    Subscriber

    If you’re hitting downhill runs at downhill speeds then dual ply would be good. The larger the tyre the better, and the lower pressure the better – it really makes such a difference in the amount of grip, and therefore your braking ability on steep corners.

    Having said all that – I run single ply tyres. Every so often we head out for a longer run and climbing for ages on hugely heavy tyres is so soul destroying that i now ride normal tyres instead of real heavy monsters.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Thing is, tyre choice is a compromise, and if you’re doing an uplift holiday the things that make up that compromise change a lot- I’d use stronger, stickier tyres all the time if I didn’t have to pedal it all up the hill. So it’s not alp specific, it’s more condition specific.

    But even then, dualplies and supertackies do change the ride and can suck away speed if you’re not doing full on downhill so it’s still a compromise.

    I don’t mind flatting that much but waiting for other people to fix flats is a pain in the arse. Especially when it’s Stevo and he takes so long, you think he must have died 😆

    g123456
    Member

    Its all down to personal preference, but on the two trips to the alps ive had single ply first time loads of punctures (they were maxxis swamp things) second time no punctures (maxxis high roller dual ply).

    Hindle Pie
    Member

    It’s all about hedging your bets. I’ve sliced the sidewall on a DH dual-ply Minion and the tyre still held out for the rest of the week. Some of the speeds you could potentially be hitting, I wouldn’t risk it.

    I recently split the sidewall on a HD snakeskin at Cwm Rhaeadr so wouldn’t be too confident of these in proper mountains.

    winch
    Member

    Thanks for all of the responses so far. I will definitely not be using my current snakeskin’s/protection tyre. Like Northwind I’d be using something with stronger, stiffer sidewalls all the time if I didn’t have to pedal.

    I’d still really appreciate some info whether Schwalbe’s “super-gravuty” tyres are on par with a full on dual ply in terms of pinch protection? 🙂

    Premier Icon BillOddie
    Subscriber

    I have used singleply tires in the Alps and the rest of the pointy bits of europe on the back of a Prince Albert. I did not die. I got flats but no more than “normal”.

    I was doing quite a bit of pedalling so a dual ply boat anchor would have been a real pain.

    Just concentrate on riding smooth and you’ll probably be fine.
    You might want to take a couple of extra spare tubes and maybe a spare rear wheel though. I had to replace mine after 3 months and 5 broken spokes. You might be fine but you don’t want to run the risk of a ruined holiday.

    The sidewalls on the SG tyres are really thick and they have a pinch flat protection insert too – but they’re thin under the tread. They should be as good as most dual plies when it comes to pinch flats but no better than single plies with normal punctures. I’ve noticed that tyres with tall and not too widely spaced knobs are much more puncture resistant than low knobbed fast tyres (so I’d trust a Magic Mary far far more than a Rock Razer).

    I’ve also noticed that it’s not just the roughness of the rocky trails or the speed you’re hitting the rocks that correlates to the likelihood of punctures – it’s braking on the gnarr that causes a lot of trouble. Keep off the brakes and tyres tend to skim over the pointy rocks. The alps are full of steep bits so I imagine you’ll be braking a lot more than on similar trails in the UK – especially on a hardtail.

    winch
    Member

    Thanks Chief, you have confirmed my suspicions. Come to think of it I would agree with your point on tall vs shorts knobs. I’m still stuggling to decide whether to stick with Schwalbes and get a Hans Dampf super gravity for the rear or swap over to maxis, put up with the weight penalty and enjoy the robustness of full on dual ply. 1st world problems.

    Premier Icon Speeder
    Subscriber

    Is there really enough difference in either weight or rolling resistance going from single (or some fancy protection type setup) to proper double ply DH tyres to warrant NOT buying some?

    winch
    Member

    Speeder, they can weigh twice as much and can roll a lot slower so I’d have to say yes.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    There’s maybe 200g between the Schwalbe Super Gravity tyres and a 2-ply Minion.

    Either would be great I’m sure (from experience).

    zerocool
    Member

    I would run Dual ply tyres out in the Alps, especially on a hardtail. I tried single ply one year and destroyed them both out in the PDS within the first 2 days. I’ve damaged 2 ply tyres as well out there, but much smaller sidewall damage and repaired easily with a patch or duct tape. The single plys were a write off.

    And spare parts aren’t particularly cheap out there either

    Tom KP

    twohats
    Member

    I ran Super Gravity Hans Dampfs in the Alps last year.
    Ran them tubeless with 20 psi front and rear on Arch ex rims with no issues at all.

    davewalsh
    Member

    Why not run your normal tyres but buy a dual ply from CRC before you go and stick it in your case. That way if you find after a day or two that your tyre isn’t up to it, stick the dual ply on, however if you don’t need it then send it back to CRC on your return and you haven’t lost out !

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