I have just taken delivery of a pr of 650c wheels for my old school TT bike.

There is something odd about the front wheel lacing. Its meant to be radially laced, but the spokes leave the hub at a slight angle that puts them approx 1 rim hole away from radial. So, they are very slightly tangential, but not enough to cross.

Is this ok? It looks odd and i def havent seen it before…..

Sounds weird! Any chance of a pic?

I cant get pics to appear on here but i can email you??

I’m struggling to visualise this – pics? The only way I can think it could be done is if the spoke on one side of the wheel angle one way and the other way on the other side, so the tension in a pair of spokes on either flange balance?

I cant seem to post pics. If you email me at breninbeenerATgmailDOTcom then i will send you a pic. Thanks

like this?

radial, but twisted, ie: tangential lacing, with the opposite side reversed.

they’ve called it ‘fallon’ lacing, although I’ve only ever heard it called y that name by them.

I think it would need a big flange and stiff hub to work even slightly well.

No, much less tangential than that. Almost radial but as if the spokes are fractionally too long….

well if you reduced the tangent it’s still the same lacing pattern just at a differnt angle.

give us some pics!

I’m struggling to visualise this – pics? The only way I can think it could be done is if the spoke on one side of the wheel angle one way and the other way on the other side, so the tension in a pair of spokes on either flange balance?

Wouldn’t work, the hub would just untwist if all the spokes on each side faced the same way (and all on the other side the other way) with the hub ending up at an angle. [edit] how the flip does that wheel stay as it is? When building them up I get to that stage and the wheels a flopy mess?

I’m guessing the spokes are in parallel pairs like they are in a normal wheel, but due to a low spoke count they don’t cross. e.g. if you tell the calculator you’re building a 32 spoke 1x wheel then only use half the spokes you get a 16 spoke wheel with no crosses.

Can’t think of any benefit, other than maybe the builder had some spokes lying around the right length.

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Amedias, i have sent you an email to your listed addy

so you have 🙂

this is the pic of the OP’s wheel

that looks in my opinion, to be either:

a) fecked
b) fallon lacing but with less tangential than my original example

it’s really hard to tell if the other side is the same (but in opposite direction), I assume it must be?

Are these new wheels, just built for you or are they 2nd hand?

Witchcraft I tell you, WITCHCRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wouldn’t work, the hub would just untwist if all the spokes on each side faced the same way (and all on the other side the other way) with the hub ending up at an angle

Agree, you generate a torque across the hub shell, but it won’t be that great and the forces in the hub, spokes and rim would be statically determinant, as the pics demonstrate. Also agree I can’t see a benefit, other than increasing the shear area along the line of the spoke through the spoke flange, but it’s marginal at best at the OP’s spoke angles.

From the pics, kind a looks like the builder bought the wrong size spokes and came up with a way to use them/plough on regardless 😉

Amadias, thank you for posting that.

Yes the other side is the same but in the opposite direction. Spokes all seem universally sensioned and the wheel is true, but it seems wrong.

Also agree I can’t see a benefit,

Same as radial then?

Looks cool, works fine, built one myself. ..on a fairly beefy hub!

but it seems wrong

that’s why I asked if they were new or not.

– if you asked for a conventionally radially laced wheel then its wrong
– if they’re 2nd hand and were built that way deliberately then it’s unusual*

It’s unlikely to explode and kill you in a fiery death crash, well, no more likely than any other minimally spoked un-crossed wheel anyway 😀

Personally I wouldn’t build one like that, but that’s more because I don’t think it achieves anything other than perhaps using up a stock of odd length spokes, but I would happily ride it, but if it was new, and I’d ordered a conventionally radially laced wheel I’d be sending it back, because they’ve either failed to tell you that it wouldn’t be (or why they chose to lace that way) or they made a mistake.

* and of questionable benefit

They are new. An ebay seller who specialises in bankrupt stock. I have sent them an email.

I agree about the wrong length spoke scenario 🙂

Same as radial then?

The more radial a wheel is the stiffer it is. Crosses are only needed at the back or with disk hubs.

I know, like I said, pointless!

I’ve had a few radial wheels in my time. Looks alright if you’re into the oldschool stuff i guess but the hassle is too much.

Nothing is more sketchy than landing a trick hard to hear the rattle of a spoke thats suddenly come loose!

I now have an ebay seller insisting that because the spokes dont cross they are radial! Joy!

My understanding is building with the spokes coming off the flange tangentially, as they do in crossed wheels, means less likelihood of flange failure as the force is running across the flange face rather than trying to rip the spoke straight out of the flange. A poor description, but hopefully you know what I mean.

That’d be one reason for that ‘fallon’ pattern, effectively it’s a one crossed wheel but with the cross working over the two flanges rather than 2 adjacent spokes.

In the OP’s example however, I reckon that shallow an angle wouldn’t make any difference.

edit – if it’s bankrupt stock, presumably that’s a business seller, in which case I think you can just send it back under the distance selling regs. You may well be liable for the return postage though.

I now have an ebay seller insisting that because the spokes dont cross they are radial! Joy!

Fight the corporate machine, never surrender!

Although TBH, it’s probably added a tiny immeasurable smidgen to the weight, possibly made the hub flanges a bit more reliable. So I’d just get on and ride it.

I’ve had a few radial wheels in my time. Looks alright if you’re into the oldschool stuff i guess but the hassle is too much.

Nothing is more sketchy than landing a trick hard to hear the rattle of a spoke thats suddenly come loose

OP probably not going to be bustin’ mad moves on his TT bike though 😉

Looks to me like they’ve attempted to lace it radially, but got the spokes in the wrong order.
2121 instead of 1212 as it were… Not sure how best to explain, but the effect would be that one side is radial, but the other is off set – a kind of half fallon.

And why are the spokes unevenly flattened?

but the effect would be that one side is radial, but the other is off set – a kind of half fallon.

It would be massively out of dish if that were the case, as effective spoke lengths would be different on each side.

And why are the spokes unevenly flattened?

eh? or has the perspective tricked you, half of them are further away

It’s just ‘fallon’ – both sides look like they’re the same angle off radial. I suspect in reality though that it’s been build with slightly too long spokes. I can’t say it’d bother me any more than having a radial wheel in the first place though 🙂

eh? or has the perspective tricked you, half of them are further away

Quite right. The ones at half past five fooled me.

And i think there’s an optical illutsion going on, like the identical hunched figures, on behind the other.

Again: witchcraft.

Edit: Jastrow: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jastrow_illusion

Guys thanks for your input. It just looked so wrong i couldnt help but think it was weaker. Anyway the vendor has organised a swap for me next week.