It might seem like it on this forum but the reality is the in-bred cannot be found in every 4th shed you visit in the u.k... unlike the Raleigh Burner! I still wouldnt put either in a list of "all time great bike designs" though.
Bike Forum
All-time great bike designs - a top 10?
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Posted 4 months ago #
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this thread needs a lot less words and a lot more pictures!
Posted 4 months ago # -
Yet some seemingly unremarkable machines managed to make a massive mark. The Metalhead and the M1 both fit this category. In reality we might have all actually bought and ridden Trailstars and Kona Stabs because they were cheaper, but those halo machines at the top of the tree were the ones we aspired to own - that desire steered the market in a new direction. They showed us what we wanted.
I think they showed a very small number of people what they 'wanted', rather than have the influence on cycling in general that something like a Safety Bicycle or a Stumpy had. The M1 was at the right place at the right time, rather than it being a particularly amazing design. The reason other manufacturers used rebadged M1s was cos they din't make their own DH bike, yet wanted to use DH's image for marketing purposes. Cannondale were doing their own thing, pioneering stuff like aluminium and carbon production techniques, big fat BBs, fat headsets and suspension tech, which could be argued were equally as influential, and have certainly evolved into more aspects of contemporary bicycle design. If you step outside of mountain biking, DH racing is a tiny tiny sport. Ergo, the M1 did not have the impact and influence of other designs.
In comparison, the Lotus bike that Boardman won his hour record on, showed that composite materials and aerodynamics were the way forward, and has had a much greater influence on subsequent bike design. Yes, track racing is a relatively 'niche' sport, but the Lotus had a far greater 'social impact'.
In reality we might have all actually bought and ridden Trailstars and Kona Stabs because they were cheaper
'We' din't though. 'We' bought hybrids and Spesh Hardrocks and Carreras/Apollos. Only a relatively very small number of people ever bought stuff like you've mentioned.
Posted 4 months ago # -
so, we're not allowed to list bikes that didn't sell in large volumes,
but we're allowed to list the 'boardman' bike.
eh?
(i guess because of the 'social impact' thing...?)
in defense of the M1; it was made with an interesting monocoque main-frame, and still looks futuristic, most of the other stuff from the same period now looks as ancient as my nan.
anyway, GT RTS?
Posted 4 months ago # -
Martin, these are the rules for north west montainbiking:
On any ride over 5 miles;
You will meet a rider on an Inbred.
If there are two of them, the other will be riding an Orange.
Posted 4 months ago # -
people were rebadging iron horse / sintessi frames long before the m1.
the m1 has no place in this list
Posted 4 months ago # -
so, we're not allowed to list bikes that didn't sell in large volumes,
but we're allowed to list the 'boardman' bike?
Yes. I've explained why.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Jackthedog, good points well made.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Elf
Ergo, the M1 did not have the impact and influence of other designs.This is a mountain biking forum, so its not out of place to suggest a bike that had a large impact on the sport we all do and love. That it didnt have as large an effect on wider society as the Rover Safety Bicycle isn't really being questioned. This thread isnt specifically about social impact. It's a bicycle design thread, and the M1 was great.
Posted 4 months ago # -
so, we're not allowed to list bikes that didn't sell in large volumes
There's no real criteria, eg Jones spaceframes don't sell in large numbers or influence other bikes really, but I'd put it forward as an MTB in a top 10, as a design it's highly original and well executed, as a product that changed cycling it's not significant at all. so would it make it,we'd need to agree on a listing criteria really, I'm more interested simply in what people consider 'great bike designs'.
By nature of distribution / mass production needs, many groundbreaking designs won't become widely-used products. Then we're into the 'which mass market version of the original idea had the effect on the mainstream' picks. (edit - ie point about the Stumpjumper vs the unknown klunker or vs the first Ritchey frames?)
The definate picks for a top 10 are appearing to be both good designs and widely used 'culture changers', a Brompton or Boris bike for example.
After that it's tricky to say whether design for it's own sake or effect on society counts for more. The designer in me says design achievement is important, the 'pro-cycling for social reasons' part of me says the effect is more important..
Posted 4 months ago # -
Yes, track racing is a relatively 'niche' sport, but the Lotus had a far greater 'social impact'.
Agreed, in that it was a more household-known product, it got noticed outside of the cycling press. How much was the fact it was ridden by a brit and had the Lotus name attached and how much was the bike design itself is debatable, but it's fair to say it was a stunning, original and innovative bike of the time. Of the M1 and the Lotus, I'd vote for the Lotus personally. In an MTB designs sub category, the M1 would be well up there but there's simply a lot of competition for 'notable MTB designs' and maybe less for road bikes.
Posted 4 months ago # -
This is a mountain biking forum, so its not out of place to suggest a bike that had a large impact on the sport we all do and love. That it didnt have as large an effect on wider society as the Rover Safety Bicycle isn't really being questioned. This thread isnt specifically about social impact. It's a bicycle design thread, and the M1 was great.
Ah, but the title of this thread is 'all time great bicycle designs', not 'all time great mountain bicycle designs'.
And I believe in that wider context, the M1 does not in any way get a look in. IMO.
Truly iconic:
Posted 4 months ago # -
ok, here's a log for the fire:
i know, it's just a wanky urban fixie, but it looks cool, and this is helping convert loads of people to the fun of riding bikes.
and it might just save the world; it's one less car, one less fattie. and you can make one out of a wreck you pull out of a skip (and that just makes it cooler)
Posted 4 months ago # -
Has anyone said AMP B3 and AMP B4 YET?
Think this bike the first to use hoist link/four bar and was so good that Specialized bought the rights to use it on there bikes (FSR etc)
Also they bike was light for it's time, forks where a bit poo though
Posted 4 months ago # -
^
AhwilesIn the same way that the unknown klunker was in my original suggestions, the generic fixie should make a similar list. Clean design, beautiful lines in some examples, plus a social impact in that it made city cycling cool in a way I've not seen since the Muddy Fox Courier.
Good call.
Posted 4 months ago # -
The Lotus carbon that Chris Boardman rode and Mike Burrows designed would make my top 10 along with the Rover Safety and The Windcheetah HPV
Posted 4 months ago # -
Has anyone said AMP B3 and AMP B4 YET?
Think this bike the first to use hoist link/four bar and was so good that Specialized bought the rights to use it on there bikes (FSR etc)
Also they bike was light for it's time, forks where a bit poo though
It was flexy too.. it'd be worth including on the MTB shortlist tho. The Proflex of the time was a better bike I think? When travel was so short, 4-bars made no real difference. I liked the simplicity of the Proflex, the fork was notable and the pivot placements were closer to spot-on than earlier SP bikes. V2 Proflexes had that now-proven SP general position.
Posted 4 months ago # -
specialized demo 7
has fsr suspension platform which has become a really good design
Posted 4 months ago # -
ok, here's a log for the fire:
is not that more 'marketing' than 'design' though? I mean, us urbanites have bin cobbling simple fuss-free bikes together for decades.
As a 'type' of bike, it's a good call though I spose. Remains to be seen whether or not it will stand the test of time though, as it's more a 'fad' thing than anything really.
Cannondale seized on the fact many urbanites were using fully rigid mountain bikes with slick tyres, and brought out theBad Boy range, which seemed to span an entire generation of black/grey simple no-frills utilitarian do-it-all bikes.
But on the subject of urban riding, how about the Dutch bike? They've bin round for centuries it seems, are solid, reliable, simple and stable. Upright riding position great for short pootles about town.
And are currently very fashionable amongst trendy young ladies who don't like the more aggressive Hipster look.
Stylish and elegant....
Posted 4 months ago # -
The Lotus carbon that Chris Boardman rode and Mike Burrows designed would make my top 10 along with the Rover Safety and The Windcheetah HPV
3 near-certs out of 10 there I think.
Plus -
Brompton
Boris Bike
Humber or similar 3-spd roadster
Moulton - not sure which, but certainly the basic designThat 7 possibles.
I'd add an original / early BMX, the Stumpjumper to represent earlier ATBs, and a simple fixie city bike.
That could be a top 10 there.
edit - the Dutch bike above would be a good inclusion, kind of covered by the Humber style bikes but maybe worth a seperate mention? It's more proven in terms of genre>social effect than the urban fixie. The fixie does have design merit by being so simple and representing a different bike style.
So maybe the list would have a few 'genres' where it's hard to single out one model, or the model listed should be the one furthest back in that part of the bike family tree.Posted 4 months ago # -
...is not that more 'marketing' than 'design' though? I mean, us urbanites have bin cobbling simple fuss-free bikes together for decades...
exactly, the 'design' is a classic. all it's taken is a can of spray paint, and a pair of skinny jeans, and it's ready to save the world.
bikes are ace.
Posted 4 months ago # -
The DMR Trailstar - A steel jump / play bike for ragging round the woods that changed how many of us rode in the late 90s. BMX Trails came to meet MTB trails head-on. Simple, strong and cheap, and highly influential I think.
No, I'm sorry I completely disagree there, before the Trailstar and indeed the SC Chameleon Spooky Bikes released the Metalhead, it was this frame that spearheaded the so-called 'hardcore hardtail' market.
(Photo taken from Pinkbike)
Posted 4 months ago # -
The Metalhead is to jump / HC HTs what the first Ritcheys were to klunkers. The first made-for-purpose version of bikes that had been adapted previously (Zaskars and 15" Stumpjumpers)
Many said the mid-80s Stumpjumper was the iconic bike of early ATBs as it was readily available and influential, so by that logic the DMR may be the bike to focus on for jump bikes, maybe not. I'm not sure if I agree with that logic, or really think the DMR would be in a top 10, just saying. The bikes I listed were just a starter that came to mind. The Metalhead is like an M1 (or Pace RC100 etc), an iconic MTB but maybe not a great bike design in the general sense.Great pic though, takes me back as I really wanted one of those, but it was way cooler than my skills justified!
Posted 4 months ago # -
Or the Bandwagon for cheaper skates...
Still the bike I most enjoy riding.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Yeti, spooky, sinister, Frank really has made some ace bikes
Posted 4 months ago # -
good times.. when a hardcore hardtail had a ~69 deg head angle and 100mm forks )
Posted 4 months ago # -
Raleigh etc 3 speeder of 50's best uk bikes ever.
Grifter bikes became fun, I had a girls shopping bike when these arrived.
Mongoose BMX, I cant put into words how much I wanted one.
Peugout Raleigh 10 speed racers of 70's 80's what you had before we had MTB
Orange/Marins of the 90's all cool.
Specialized Sirrus decent accessible bikes.
On one inbreds/scandals must be the most popular bikes in the uk nowThats about all I can think of off hand, not much niche on here.
Posted 4 months ago # -
martinxyz - Member
The whyte preston an all-time great bike design?You have to be joking?
If you ride along on said bicycle approx 5mph.. and compress the suspension with body weight you can actually bring the bike to a hault.On the return.. it actually brings the bike back up to speed. Try it,then try it on any other suspension design! We found this out a few years ago and wondered what this would do on steep techy trails. I never want to find out.Interesting I have 3 of them and have ridden 1000s of km on them and have never found this
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You wanted pictures I admit it,s not prettyPosted 4 months ago # -
Raleigh Burner. Every kid I knew, wanted one.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I really like seeing the original Spesh Enduro's on the trails. I always stop to admire them.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Good grief, I'd never seen a Whyte Preston. It has upset me a bit.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I,m sorry wynne there is a counciling service , when you ride them you cant see how ugly they are,
Posted 4 months ago # -
Posted 4 months ago # -
I like the Whyte Preston.
All the basic suspension geometry is there with a good front end. It then all comes down to the suspension units which are easily changed.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Just spent 30 mins typing my list and reasons but the PC has just died so you'll have to make do with just the list:
1. Intense M1
2. Boardman Lotus
3. DeKerf Generation
4. Martin B-17
5. Pro-Flex 956
6. GT Zaskar
7. MountainCycle San Andreas
8. Spooky Metalhead
9. Muddy Fox CourierPosted 4 months ago #
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