Any suggestions for a replacement frame for my Caron 456? Great frame but I’m finding it just a bit too stiff.
Must be a genuine all day machine that can still hook it downwards at every opportunity. Want to transplant a 140mm fork and keep the build sub 28lb.
Love the look of the Cotic Bfe. Also this Stanton Slackline but not sure if it will be a drag on the ups.

Suggestions welcome.

I have a surge which I have to say is the best hardtail I have ridden. Similar geometry to the slackline but not 853. Descends really well and is no slouch on the climbs either. Could be too stiff for you though.

I would have thought most long-travel hardtails are going to be fairly stiff? You wouldn’t want a noodle…

Dialled Bikes Alpine springs to mind though?

I don’t raise the saddle so stiffness is not a problem.

Actually scrap that. Forget the forks and get a 2Souls Cycles QH.
http://www.2soulscycles.com/index.php/products/quarterhorse-qqhq-98

With 140mm forks you won’t be left wanting. The 29er wheels will give you a tad more comfort, especially with a Hans Dampf on the back.

I’m using a Chumba HX1 to do exactly what you are talking about.

Alu frame but compliant, quite light. 140mm forks. Loads of clearance, big tyres and a dropper pst help a helluva lot.

Progreesive cycles for the frame..

Soul goes up a bit better than a Bfe and will run at 140, although perhaps a bit wandery on the climbs…

The stanton will climb better than the bfe at 140, the surge is a great bike if it fits.

i have a new bfe w/ 160 slants on it.
only had two rides around the glentress trail/offpiste-y bits…plenty of up and plenty of downs.
best mtb i’ve rideen in 20+ years.
love it.

BFe works as an all day bike at 140mm, I’m a pretty rubbish climber but don’t find the BFe hard work. Mine is built to about 27.5lbs but I didn’t put much effort in keeping the weight down.

In true stw tradition I’ll recommend what I ride – ti slackline ftw.

Progressive cycles for the frame..

Yeah right, good luck with that. 😆 🙄

What about a Production Privee Shan no idea if it will be good as an all day bike but so sexy!

I’m pretty certain that every frame listed so far is less compliant than the Carbon 456, except maybe the Ti Slackline. A Cotic Soul may be a bit more compliant but nothing massively significant, and is about as smooth riding as a 140mm hardtail frame gets. So really, it isn’t the frame that isn’t “all day”, it’s you! 😉

Why the the rolly eye thing about progressive?

I’ve got a BFe and love it but it’s not a patch on my Pipedream Scion.

makern, must have sent him 3 or 4 emails asking for availability on the HX1, and he didn’t answer any of them.

bored now of asking

Last I heard about progressive and chumba was that Si had been let down by chumba in a big way over some of their full sus bikes and he was no longer going to import the frames.

I ride my c456 all day and find it really comfortable. maybe you want full Suss or a 29er. or try a thudbuster? I had one on my old hardrock and it was brilliant but I don’t feel the need for it now.

Yeah fr0sty, had a look at the Shan and it looks the dogs doodahs! Pretty slack and short chainstays. Would love a shot of one. I think maybe the Bfe or the Soul may have to be tested.

Marvincooper, I have a Zesty as well and I’m not a fan of 29ers (waits for 29er hate mail :?) .
I guess it’s my boney arse that’s the main problem 😆

Hardtail.
All-day comfort.
Hooking it down(hill I presume)
Choose any two.
🙂

I’d go for a Soul.

+1 Soul (if you can afford Talas’ or similar)

Tried mine with 110/140, climbs quickly and descends even better.

All day hardtail? I’d be thinking 29er.

Don’t think a bfe will be any more comfortable than a C456

Keep the 456, get a bigger tyre! Just saved you a few hundred quid 😉

Keep the 456, get a bigger tyre! Just saved you a few hundred quid

I’d presumed there’s already big tyre on there, surely?

Prior model BFe is my all day hardtail … great fun to ride … 120/150 switchable forks give the best of both worlds up/down/along. In theory the Soul would the more common all day choice but the BFe works really well for me and the frame is quite a bit cheaper

I had a go on a soul (I ride a Chameleon). It was like pushing wet spaghetti going round a corner..

If it was me, I’d be going for either Ti456E or a Bfe or a Prive Shan

Ti456E is prob a bit too much money, and the Shan weighs too much. Although the fact that a Bfe is cheaper than both of them may have something to do with that choice.

Soul for me. Rode to the Quantocks from West Dorset, did some combes, then rode home. 91 miles. One mans wet spagetti’s another mans pre-ride snack..

What seatpost are you using OP?

I found a carbon one made a big difference to comfort on my old C456. Though I still put a reverb on it in the end.

I rode my c456 and a Bfe back-to-back and there wasn’t much in it comfort-wise IMO.

Rusty Mac – Member

Last I heard about progressive and chumba was that Si had been let down by chumba in a big way over some of their full sus bikes and he was no longer going to import the frames.

Chumba’s reputation over om MTBR is extraordinary. They’ve been up to some very shoddy stuff – think a lot of the threads were deleted with the new forum format (suspiciously, as there were suggestions that Chumba and MTBR have some peopel in common) but I’d never consider on having read it.

Can we please not do all this “my bike is too stiff” nonsense again please?

Think about it for a moment.

Done that?

Right, how much suspension travel do you need to make your FS bike more comfortable than your HT?

Thought about that?

(Hint, it’s rather more than the 0.1mm – 0.8mm of flex you get even in a very very flexy HT frame)

Now conduct a quick experiment on elasticity:
1) take both wheels off your bike, lift the frame above your head, and drop it onto the floor. How high did it bounce?
2) repeat with one of your wheel/tyre. How high did that bounce?

Hopefully by now, you are starting to realise that the “Stiffness” of a frame (and in fact its frequency transmission bandwidth) is so many orders of magnitude higher than the perturbation frequency/amplitude from road inputs that it is irrelevant.

Spoilsport

Go and sit in the corner, and think about what you’ve done

Sanderson

i see maxtorque is rather conveniently ignoring the 29r option…

“bike to stiff” LOL

Admit it, it’s just an excuse to buy a new frame!

Next week….. “my pedals are too stiff”

Can we please not do all this “my bike is too stiff” nonsense again please?

Think about it for a moment.

Done that?

Right, how much suspension travel do you need to make your FS bike more comfortable than your HT?

Thought about that?

(Hint, it’s rather more than the 0.1mm – 0.8mm of flex you get even in a very very flexy HT frame)

Now conduct a quick experiment on elasticity:
1) take both wheels off your bike, lift the frame above your head, and drop it onto the floor. How high did it bounce?
2) repeat with one of your wheel/tyre. How high did that bounce?

Hopefully by now, you are starting to realise that the “Stiffness” of a frame (and in fact its frequency transmission bandwidth) is so many orders of magnitude higher than the perturbation frequency/amplitude from road inputs that it is irrelevant.

best post in the not too terribly recent past! 😀
now if you could just tackle the “vertically compliant, laterally stiff” (or is it vice versa?) issue, i could go on enjoying not doing very much at work this monring.

I’ve been pondering this question after recently building up an FF29 hardtail and comparing it with my Trance full suss. I rode the FF29 for five and a half hours on Saturday, which helped me crystallize a few thoughts on the relative merits of hardtails.

First, maxtourque is right, frame material is completely irrelevant. The difference between the stiffest and most flexible frames out there is only the same as a few psi more or less in your tyres. Forget about it.

If you want to make a hardtail more comfortable for all day riding then look at: bigger wheels, to roll over bumps more easily; a larger volume tyre, for some extra cushioning; a comfy saddle; a flexible seatpost and the longest chainstays you can find, so any bumps are happening further behind you and cause less deflection at the saddle.

Personally, I think a hardtail makes a good all day bike so long as the riding involves plenty of road and smooth trails where the extra efficiency saves you a decent amount of energy compared with a full suss. It’s also a good option if you are going to do plenty of hike-a-bike as it should be lighter to carry. However, if it’s going to be all day riding on bumpy trails then give me a short travel full suss any day. With a full suss you can sit on some bits where you’d need to stand on the HT and when you are going down bumpy stuff you don’t have to work as hard to absorb the bumps with your legs. All of which saves you a lot of energy, which is the key to an all day bike as far as I’m concerned.

Well, that’s my thoughts anyway.

I’ve NEVER understood the whole idea of a more compliant frame, it’s always struck me as odd when the whole thing sits on tyres with air in them.

I remember reading reviews as a kid and bikes were slated (and presumably lost sales) for having a harsh back end etc. I just didn’t get it, still don’t.

it’s *just* possible that there is a little bit of truth in the idea that flexy frames can help with a bit of comfort.

but you won’t find that flex in a BFe, or a slackline (or any modern mountain bike)

if you want comfort, get a bike that fits, consider using large tyres, and don’t inflate them to 40psi. Yes, you may risk a few pinch-punctures, you’ll just have to rein it in a bit over rocks.

a diamond bike frame is a very stiff shape/structure.

forks + handlebars + cranks are cantilevers, they’re flexy.