I'll qualify that a bit further. Airshocks on non-xc race bikes.

The 3 full sussers I've owned have all had coils on, but I've been looking for a new "big" bike for a while (6"ish AM/FR/mini DH thing). They all seem to be specced with airshocks, and when I've demo'd bikes, they've all, without fail, been ruined by the shock.

Case in point – my local (Moose in Colliers Wood) have lent me a Nomad with an RS Monarch on. Set it up for correct 30% sag, and it bottoms (gently) on a 2' drop, which doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence for how it will cope on and 6' or 8' effort. Small bump sensitivity is average at best.

Yesterday I went up to the Peaks and managed to get really bad damper fade coming down Chapel Gate – it was like a pogo stick by the bottom – the shock shaft was really quite hot to the touch – think holding a freshly made mug of tea. Surely there's no way a 10 stone rider should be able to that anywhere in the UK?? And if that happens on a 5 minute DH, what's going to happen on a half hour Alpine descent (which is what these bikes are made for). And to top it all off as the day warmed up (I started quite early) I had to readjust the pressure as I went from having 30% sag to 15% sag.

I've had similar experiences with a selection of Fox RP23s too, although never had the damper fade so bad.

So why are the manufacturers speccing these bits of crap? Surely it's not *just* about weight? The Nomad is 3lb lighter than my current Turner, but it doesn't feel it to ride (and I am a bit of a weight weenie). Check out the owners forums and one of the most popular upgrades for trail and AM bikes is to stick a coil shock on it – a decision very few people seem to regret.

Thoughts?

I'm happy on my air-shock (float on a Heckler) but I am in no way rad.

Are you comparing to a nomad with a coil shock or a completely different bike?

Well, I've only ever had Fox air shocks on my 3 FS bikes (Stumpy FSR – Float R, 575 – RP23, Pitch – RP2) and I reckon they work fine.

What a shock FEELS like has a lot more to do with the bike and the geometry of the linkage than the actual shock I reckon, and if you're bottoming it out on the recommended settings then you're obviously outside what the makers think you'll be doing, so run less sag is the obvious answer

That said, RS shocks aren't as good as Fox, and if you really are getting fade on the damping, then, yes, a coil shock might be more suitable. Although the damoing will be pretty much the same concept you know! 🙂

what's going to happen on a half hour Alpine descent (which is what these bikes are made for).

Mine is fine with 15.5 stone of me on board, thanks!

I had to readjust the pressure as I went from having 30% sag to 15% sag.

Try doing that on a coil shock…. That's your answer! 😉

EDIT
It has to be said I'd like to try a coil shock on the Pitch, but I don't ride it very often (One weekend so far this year) so I might never bother…

i have ridden my 4 inch air shocked trance around the alps for a few weeks each year, and also my dh bike. on similar terrain.

FAR more important to the feel of the bike are the angles, wheels, and the amount of travel in general.

never felt shock fade at all, probably because you had to rag the cr@p out of the bike anyway on that kind of terrain, so if it was fading i would barely have noticed…

IMO you need to just plow on through this kinda thing. MTFU?

I've got two shocks for my Enduro – an RP2 and a coil pro-pedal Vanilla. While I do like the coil shock more I didn't have any actual problems with the RP2, it was just less plush. I'm slow and timid though!

I'm far from an expert on these things, but some suspension systems are designed around an air-shock. Eg. my Yeti – not recommended to use a coil shock as it is too linear. I found this using a high-volume air shock, the back end was way too soft in the mid part of the travel.

All you complaints are due to the damper rather than the spring medium.

In general air springs are more progressive and thus should be better for retaining small bump performance and bottoming resistance (although seal friction may limit very small bump compliance).

Now, it may well be that coil shocks generally use better, higher oil volume (leading to reduced fade) dampers, but it's nothing to do with the spring medium, just intended use and weight targets I guess.

I'm comparing the Nomad, a couple of Orange Alpines (2009 RP23, 2010 RP23), Nicolai Helius AM (DHX air), Cotic Hemlock (Pearl and RP23) to my 2002 Turner RFX with a DHX 5 coil.

I've tried the Hemlock with both air and coil, and it felt great with the coil on – despite being setup for somebody a couple of stone heavier.

cynic-al – I wouldn't call myself rad either!

Case in point – my local (Moose in Colliers Wood) have lent me a Nomad with an RS Monarch on. Set it up for correct 30% sag, and it bottoms (gently) on a 2' drop, which doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence for how it will cope on and 6' or 8' effort. Small bump sensitivity is average at best.

Whilst I agree with you, I bloody hate air shocks anyway but I think that you will find it might be ok – the spring rate and damping are dependant on how fast you compress it – so if you do a big drop the rate of compression will be higher and the spring rate and damping will increase.

Reasons why air shocks are spec'd:

Cheepest way to loose 400g, for next to no cost
Everyone wants a sub 20/25/30/35/40lb bike depending on the genre. Make your bike 1lb heavier than the competition and you may as well not bother.
1 shock fits all riders out the box, no need to fanny about with different springs.

The air shock on my Stumpjumper feels fine but I am definitely at the 'bog standard trail rider' side of things….

I can see that bigger bikes should perhaps have big, fat coils on them though.

Aren't they heavier & more expensive though?

I'm comparing the Nomad, a couple of Orange Alpines (2009 RP23, 2010 RP23), Nicolai Helius AM (DHX air), Cotic Hemlock (Pearl and RP23) to my 2002 Turner RFX with a DHX 5 coil.

Go try a Pitch…. 😀

Isn't Peaty riding an air shock this year or is that just for a couple of events?

Probably down to setup and how an air shock works with a particular suspension design. 30% sag sounds a lot. With an air shock most setups recommend 25% sag

All you complaints are due to the damper rather than the spring medium.

Thing is air shocks cover the damper with a nice insulating sleeve of air, so when the oil gets hot, it can't cool off, so the damping goes. Once the air gets hot, then all the sag & spring rate goes to pot too.

never felt shock fade at all, probably because you had to rag the cr@p out of the bike anyway on that kind of terrain, so if it was fading i would barely have noticed

Trust me – its pretty bleeding obvious when it happens. The bike keeps trying to punt you over the bars.

MTFU?

That's all very well and good (and pretty much what I did). But why the hell would I want to spend a small fortune on a frame that then needs an instant £3-400 upgrade to get the best out of it?. Dropping £1500+ on a frame, it has to be *RIGHT*, not just OK…

VPP always uses a lot of sag as its very progressive.

I've just gone back to coil after a year on a fox dhx4 air, i have no major complaints about air shocks, apart from it went back to mojo a few times cos it kept sticking down, i just prefer the more linear feel of a coil whereas the air gets progressively harder and it somehow felt to me i was losing the last few inches of travel on the gnarly stuff. horses for courses i guess!

I'd agree with you that most stock air shocks feel terrible. My Giant Reign came with a DHX 4 air. It was the usual complaint, blowing through the mid-stroke travel. I sent it off for a service after a year and decided to pay the £35 for a custom tune. Shock (and bike's handling) were improved beyond belief. No more wollow and excellent square edge performance. I've never encountered damper fade, even in The Alps on 15min non-stop runs.

I think you should reserve judgement until you've ridden a properly damped unit.

I'd like to try a coil shock too on my Pitch but they're way out of my price range. 🙁
any suggestions for good cheap ones?

The coil shock (a basic Fox Vanilla with pro-pedal) I'm using on my Enduro only cost £40 2nd hand.

got air shox front n back on my race bike ( 100mm travel ) but have to agree its coils f/r all the way for my hooligan DH bike, wouldnt trust airshock to hold out with the abuse it gets.

I got a marzocchi roco r brand new off the 'bay' for 154, came from france they had shed loads of em in various lengths, its a nice shock.

i noticed that when i rode my fsr (fox float triad) in the summer that the increased heat made the sag and spring rate go to pot

cynic-al – I wouldn't call myself rad either!

Bollocks – I've seen the pictures Jon. You're going a lot bigger than most people! 😀

The difference between the Nic I tested with a DHX Air and mine with a CCDB is vast (in favour of the CCDB) but I couldn't say whether that was specifically a consequence of the damper being a Cane Creek DB versus it being a coil.

The reports on the new Rock Shox Vivid air seem to be hugely positive, with the test riders saying they prefer the feel of the air.

If your big as I am I often wonder why I bothered with air. Both my forks and shock are right at the top of their spring rate and I might as well ride a rigid.

If you want coil sprung plushness, progression and “feel” there are of course products on the market already which offers this apparently…

Would it be impossible to switch the stock air shock for a cheap vanilla coil for a week of lift assisted Alpine riding? It’s not rocket science…

The expectation is of course that now 6” bikes are considered “mid” travel machines their owners will want to climb up hills as well as descend and don’t fancy lugging an extra couple of bags of sugar up to the top with them…

Maybe set the marketing to one side and actually look at what you really need…
6” air sprung, sub 30lb bikes are always going to have certain compromises, if you are expecting to regularly loft your bike off 6-8’ drops and plough through rock gardens then being realistic you need a DH bike, if you also want to pedal that same bike to the top in style and comfort then perhaps these “Do it all machines” aren’t quite as “do it all” as the ad said…

If you want a DH bike then Buy a DH bike, where as if you want a “jack of all trades” machine it will of course turn out to be a “Master of none”…

I'm with cynic-al – I run a float on my heckler and it's just dandy for most stuff – I wouldn't say I'm 'rad' either. There were options on the shock when I bought the frame though and I chose the Float over other air and coil options because I was tight on budget, but I'd imagine most manufacturers would give you an option on the shock for an additional cost???

Can't be arsed reading that – in true STW i'll just wade in with my own opinion.

Marketing – air shocks are either cheaper so profit margins greater, or lighter so when you look at the specs or pick it up in the shop you go oooh! when comparing it to a coil. Performance probably doesn't come into it. Infact how much profit they can make drives most of the big bike companies, it's not about the best bike they can make it about the best profit they can make, anything they tell you is marketing to make you buy it.

For those who are considering sticking a coil on a Pitch……I wouldn't bother.

I had a Pitch for a year and during that time I rode it with:

RP23
DHX 5.0 Air
DHX 5.0 Coil
back to RP23

The coil just feels "wrong" on the Pitch IMO. I ride quite hard, and I'm not too bothered about weight, but the coil really just made the rear feel numb and heavy. I was running Fox 36's up front.

The RP23 is spot on for the Pitch IMO. If you are doing big stuff where you are constantly bottoming out the RP23, then change the set up (i.e. PUSH) or get a bike that's actually designed for bigger stuff.

I have a couple of bigger bikes that I used to take out on DH/FR days instead of the Pitch, and even they felt more responsive than the Pitch once I had the coil on.

I found the RP23 to be faultless.