airport monkeys trash bike - what legal rights

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airport monkeys trash bike - what legal rights

39 posts & 22 voices | Started 1 year ago by darrell | Latest reply from The Flying Ox

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darrell - Member

Coming back from the Tour of Flanders sportive the aiport monkeys have managed to break my bike. It was packed correctly in a very good bike bag and yet, somehow, the rear derailleur has been bent and then the dropout has snapped fraking the frame. A new frame is required, plus a rear and front derailleur. Clearly the bag has been dropped or something heavy dropped on it.

I live in Norway and SAS airlines have told me that they are only responsible for transportation of the bag and not the stuff inside the bag. If the bag was damaged (it was a soft shell EVOC bag and it therefore shows minimal damage) then they would pay for a replacement bag. They insist that any claims for damages to goods are made to a travel insurance company. My travel insurance (through work) only covers to a max of approx 300 GBP for damages to sports goods. It will cost approx 1500 GBP to get a new frame and have it imported in to Norway. So I'm gonna out of pocket to the tune of 1200 GBP.

Anyone got any knowledge about this. UK knowledge is fine cause the airlines all have to abide by EU rules i guess.

Posted 1 year ago #
BigJohn - Member

I think you're in the same position as Lesoxdh. A raging cocktail of injustice and remorse washed down with a "wish I hadn't done that" chaser.

Start saving up.

Posted 1 year ago #
Mintman - Member

I thought that the baggage handlers worked for the airport services company not the airline. I imagine that you'd be best talking to the airport about this issue and see what they have to say.

I also imagine that without evidence that it was fine beforehand you'll struggle to apportion blame.

I also think that your insurance was probably not adequate for the stuff you were transporting so that's not going to help either.

Sorry to come across all negative but i don't think this is going to end well easily...

Posted 1 year ago #
molgrips - Member

My travel insurance (through work) only covers to a max of approx 300 GBP for damages to sports goods

D'oh!

Check your home contents policy.

Posted 1 year ago #
darrell - Member

alas, everyone at work told me it was a fantastic policy so i didnt check. Even the other cyclists here are shocked by the limit and are all starting to panic about their trips away. Home contents doesnt cover it. All i can do is start legal proceeding against the airline. But they are ba5tards and i'll be bashing my head against a wall here unless they are just trying it on. I can prove the bike was fine before. I have photos of me riding the thing over the finish line of the sportive and a photo of it packed away prior to returning

Posted 1 year ago #
piedi di formaggio - Member

I thought that the baggage handlers worked for the airport services company not the airline. I imagine that you'd be best talking to the airport about this issue and see what they have to say.

But how would you know which end the damamge occured at?

Posted 1 year ago #
molgrips - Member

All i can do is start legal proceeding against the airline.

Checked the ticket small print?

Did you pack with a spacer between the dropouts? (not being smug, just wondering if these things actually help)

Posted 1 year ago #
darrell - Member

it was packed in a EVOC travel bag and i used the road bike kit

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=64766

and it was packed correctly

Posted 1 year ago #
geoffj - Member

Unless you can prove that the baggage handlers caused the damage, I'm not sure how you can proceed.

Did you check the bike and report the damage before you left the airport? If you didn't then I'd almost guarantee that you will get nowhere with them.

Good luck though.

Posted 1 year ago #
Mr Woppit - Member

A cautionary tale.

Next time: Hard box, remove the rear mech & tape it to the frame.

Posted 1 year ago #
steveh - Member

I've had to claim of easyjst twice before for damaged bikes and they have said the same at first response, not our fault calim from your insurance blah blah. I went back to them and politely but firmly pointed out that they are liable for damage to the goods carried by them. They in turn no doubt pass it on to the baggage handling companies. After this on both occasions they've caved and paid for the damages to be repaired without further hassle.
The law might be different in Norway but I'd definitely go back to them asking why they believe they are not liable for damage they caused.

Posted 1 year ago #
darrell - Member

but principally I'm asking - is it legally alright for an airline to receive goods for transit in good condition and then return them in bad condition without any responsibility?

Posted 1 year ago #
Mintman - Member

Of course not, but I don't see you've got evidence that:

a. you gave it to them in good condition.
b. They damaged it - whoever "they" is
c. You didn't take it home, damage it and then attempt an insurance claim.

There seem to be a few possible scenarios and without decent evidence you'll struggle to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they did it.

Posted 1 year ago #
trailofdestruction - Member

it was a soft shell EVOC bag

Wouldn't put anything fragile and expensive like a bike in anything less than one of these.

http://bikeboxalan.co.uk/

Used to work for a broadcast camera rental company that shiped all over the world. Hard shell case or nothing, soft bags are a waste of money. Sorry to be harsh, but I've seen it happen with expensive electronic kit before. I really hope you get some money back.

Good luck.

Posted 1 year ago #
thisisnotaspoon - Member

IIRC yes they are responsible for goods in transit, but the airport does all the damage usualy. So they have to pay up, then chase the airport, and presumabaly they dont like the hastle, and don't like chargeing airports money as ultimtely this feeds back to them in higher fee's?

So yes, their responsibility, but not their fault if that makes sense?

On the other hand every bike packing guide I've ever seen says take the mech off and fit dropout spacers. So they could easily say you packed it incorectly.

Posted 1 year ago #
geoffj - Member

These links indicate that they are liable up to just less than £1100 for each item of baggage.

http://www.flysas.com/en/Generic/Help_Contact/Conditions_of_carriage/
http://www.auc.org.uk/default.aspx?catid=306&pagetype=90&pageid=6528

Good luck with it.

Posted 1 year ago #
Stuey01 - Member

I thought that the baggage handlers worked for the airport services company not the airline. I imagine that you'd be best talking to the airport about this issue and see what they have to say.

The fact that the airline subcontract it to another company is nowt to do with the OP. The airline was paid to transport the goods. OP needs to deal with the airline.

Posted 1 year ago #
jhw - Member

I've thought about this before (I couldn't get insurance and had to make contingency plans for what I'd do if Easyjet broke it).

Under English law there would surely be an implied term (common law, codified in statute) basically obliging Easyjet, if they take your bike away when it's in one piece, not to return it in two.

Of course, there will inevitably be a term somewhere in the contract saying something obscure like "heretofore the aforementioned owner shall assume no maximus minimus liability hereafter a priori referred to as twunt, up to £300, inter alia" but you don't need to worry about that, because whatever it says, it's an unreasonable exclusion clause, so **** you!

That's probably the position under English law but surely any jurisdiction has similar stuff, i.e.-

- airline takes your $hit
- $hit comes back in two pieces
- law says airline responsible
- airline points to exclusion clause
- law says an exclusion clause denying liability for something as core as getting your goods there in one piece, is unreasonable and an abuse of the airlines' position.

Google "EU" "consumer protection". Oh wait, Norway's not in the EU. Should've voted differently, eh?

Seriously find out the bare bones of whatever statute does this in Norway, or whatever the relevant jurisdiction is (God knows), and just put together a letter of claim to the airline warning them this is the first step in legal proceedings and you'll take the matter to court if they don't sort you out. Try to use headed paper if poss.

Posted 1 year ago #
clubber - Member

Without having to tell them this, I think that leaving your rear mech bolted to the frame makes you partly liable - you should always unbolt it.

Anyway, IME, you may well be onto a hiding to nothing here based on experiences my friends have had. It's hard to prove that it was properly protected and they tend to limit what they're willing to pay out anyway.

is it legally alright for an airline to receive goods for transit in good condition and then return them in bad condition without any responsibility?

Quite possibly yes. Or at least it's not black and white that they can't. Keep on at it and you may eventually get some money back as good will.

Posted 1 year ago #
geoffj - Member

Montreal Convention - see above.

Posted 1 year ago #
convert - Member

I've taken bikes away plenty of times. Maybe I've been fortunate, maybe well prepared but I've been lucky so far.

Chainset off
Rear mech off
Spacers in dropouts in frame and forks
Every frame tube in roof rack padding tube (like what you put under a surfboard when strapped to a car)or pipe lagging.
Bag lined with thick carboard.

Having said that I think I'm going to insist the checkin assistant checks the contents and signs my own form that the goods were in sound condition and correctly packaged before handing it over next time. As a punter you are asked sign enough stuff before you are allowed to do much these days; it would seem reasonable for us to turn the tables - the contract is two sided after all. Maybe ctc/bcf etc could generate such a form on behalf of the cyclist with the correct legalise. No idea what I'd do if I got to the check-in and they refused to sign though.....

Posted 1 year ago #
clubber - Member

I'd be amazed if they did sign it. Or if they did, I'd imagine that they'd claim that the person wasn't qualified to sign it so it's not valid.

Posted 1 year ago #
geoffj - Member

Having said that I think I'm going to insist the checkin assistant checks the contents and signs my own form that the goods were in sound condition and correctly packaged before handing it over next time.

Sounds perfectly reasonable, but I doubt you'll get them to play ball.

A couple of photos of the bag unzipped showing the contents with check in desk and boarding pass in view might work just as well?

Posted 1 year ago #
Mintman - Member

I thought that the baggage handlers worked for the airport services company not the airline. I imagine that you'd be best talking to the airport about this issue and see what they have to say.
The fact that the airline subcontract it to another company is nowt to do with the OP. The airline was paid to transport the goods. OP needs to deal with the airline.

Point missed there, I wasn't talking about subcontracting. I was trying to say that I thought baggage handling was the responsibility ofthe airport and not the airline, if that's right then it will have a bearing on where the OP should direct his issue.

Posted 1 year ago #
Stuey01 - Member

Point missed there, I wasn't talking about subcontracting. I was trying to say that I thought baggage handling was the responsibility ofthe airport and not the airline, if that's right then it will have a bearing on where the OP should direct his issue.

No, the point wasn't missed. The contract is between the OP and the airline. Not the OP and the airport services company. The airline has a contract with airport services.

The OP has no relationship with the airport services company. He has to deal with the airline as he paid them to move his goods.

Posted 1 year ago #
convert - Member

Point missed there, I wasn't talking about subcontracting.

To be fair I'd say you have missed the point, or maybe not. When I/the op hands money over to an airline, you have a contract to get you and your stuff from A to B with the airline you paid your money to. I don't think I have entered into any contract with a baggage handling firm.

Posted 1 year ago #
rustler - Member

If I'm ever to be able to afford to fly somewhere I fully expect to have to completely dismantle the bike. Surley a road bike is quite a fragile object in the hands of some of the rsoles that unload planes. Like they really give a rats ass if a bike worth 6 months of their salary gets broken.

That airline pilot with the right idea, with his folding Inbred.

Posted 1 year ago #
BigJohn - Member

This is my usual script at check-in "Hello, this is a soft bag. Like all soft bags, I'm sure you'll treat it like eggshells and not stack anything else on top of it because there are bits in there that will only take about 5 kilos of weight on top of them before breaking."

Posted 1 year ago #
nacho - Member

ask someone else suggested, have you checked home contents? You might have a chance with that. Friend of mine holed his Mojo frame in Spain, they wouldn't cover it under warranty but got a new frame under contaents insurance, different scenario I know but worth looking into

Posted 1 year ago #
Mintman - Member

To be fair I'd say you have missed the point, or maybe not.

...and that was my point, I wasn't sure.

See my point?

Putting it another way, I wondered whether your contract with the airline is to transport it safely from taxi-ing out to landing at the destination; namely when the bag is actually on the plane. I wasn't sure what the arrangements between airlines and airports is and therefore who is accountable when the bag is no longer on the plane. Can the airline can be held accountable for what the handlers do, whether it gets snagged in the conveyor belts in the terminal etc...

Just a thought and all...

Posted 1 year ago #
convert - Member

To be fair, when you pay for a ticket you also pay "airport tax" or somesuch. I'd imagine that's the bit for running the airport (runway, buildings AND baggage handling). No idea if that bit of what you are paying is your contribution to the airlines costs or you are paying it directly. All getting a bit semantic now.....

Posted 1 year ago #
beamers - Member

Whilst on the transfer bus from plane to Terminal at Edinburgh a couple of weeks ago on returning from a skiing/boarding holiday I witness a terrible scene.

A flatbed truck loaded with baggage swung into the unloading bay area at a high enough speed that the pile of bags balanced on the flatbed toppled over and came off the truck, scattering bags all over the place The driver continued on his way oblivious to what had just happened.

There was a collective gasp from the onlookers on the bus and I made a mental note to buy/rent a hardshell case if and when I fly with a bike again.

I have been lucky up to now.

Having ridden the RVV Sportive last year and watch the race the next day I feel you pain darrell.

On the (only slightly) brighter side at least it didn't happen when you arrived for the event.

Posted 1 year ago #
Mintman - Member

I had a look on a couple of airline websites and they seem to say to contact the airline with issues so the OP is most likely going the right way. They do seem to say that damage must be reported before leaving the terminal so That doesn't look good. Fingers crossed it works out ok though...

Posted 1 year ago #
don simon - Member

I've just read the title and you are right to be concerned as I think it is quite illegal to employ monkeys.

Posted 1 year ago #
uplink - Member

I'd try a bit more with the airline

A lot of companies instantly refuse to deal with claims for refunds/compensation etc. as a way of getting rid of most complainers

Persevere - you've nothing to lose really

Posted 1 year ago #

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