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1. willurd - Member

   hello all!

   after long long deliberation i have come up with 2 options on a new bike and i would greatly appreciate a second/third/fourth opinion, before its toooo late!

   ok, what i want and what i need it for. budget, no more then 1400, but i would rather keep it shy of that. hardtail steel frame, mainly for single track, bombing around on the moors capable.

   initially i was looking at a genesis altitute 20 with a 853 frame, or a on-one build. but having done my research i have come up with these two options(one slightly more complicated then the other...)

   1. a rocklobster team tig 853, which specced up comes to £1200

   http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/custom-mountain-bikes/rock-lobster-mountain-bikes/rock-lobster-tig-team-853.html

   2. i have a burning desire to own the cotic soul, but to build up from scratch is looking pricey. so am now looking at a donor bike, and the best bang for buck i could find was this...

   http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=41724

   and then getting this... it comes to £1269

   http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/soul

   ok, now what do people think is my best option...

   take into account, that although i have been a keen rider for many years, my building and maintenance is anything but advanced, so pulling the later option together may require alot of cluing up and running it down to my local bike shop.

   also, if anyone would disagree with the later option being in compatible, please please let me know.

   cheers people

   Posted 2 years ago #
2. boxelder - Member

   Get the biggest size available or check steerer/head tube sizes and hose lengths. You'll hanker after new controls I bet
   Sounds like your set on a Soul, but I'd go for the Merlin for £300 less. Could always trade up later?

   Posted 2 years ago #
3. willurd - Member

   why do you think i am best with the merlin?

   do you not think the controls are much cop. i presumed XT controls would be rather good?

   cheers

   Posted 2 years ago #
4. tthew - Member

   You might need things like a different seatpost and headset to swap stuff from the donor bike to the Cotic, which will obviously affect the final build price. You could however offset that by selling the spare alloy frame.

   Posted 2 years ago #
5. ampthill - Member

   I've been playing with these sort of calculations myself, its really tricky to do the maths. I'm just a shade short of knowledge as well

   I think you have to ask questions like

   Will the seat post fit
   Will I really use those tyres
   Will I need amy brake adaptors, are the rotors the size I want etc.
   What costs will I encure (wll you need to pay for say headset fitting

   Have you any idea what geometry you want. The rock lobster always looks a bit short to for my stature (well the same as my current bike I fancy a bit more length)

   The non technical answer is if you want a SOUL go for it and swallow any extra costs as they arise.

   Any way back to my inberd build spread sheet

   Posted 2 years ago #
6. ampthill - Member

   I think controls means bar stem seat post....

   Posted 2 years ago #
7. still s8tannorm - Member

   I've still got a Rock lobster 853 from many years ago ... it's been a superb bike. For a few years it was my only bike so got used for everything.

   I'd certainly buy another one if I was in the market but if you really want a Soul how about secondhand ... your budget would go a loooong way.

   Posted 2 years ago #
8. tang - Member

   get the doner bike and the soul. the soul is a fantastic frame. if you can do it, get the frame you really want. if the soul works for you it will be a keeper.

   Posted 2 years ago #
9. boxelder - Member

   why do you think i am best with the merlin?

   do you not think the controls are much cop. i presumed XT controls would be rather good?

   cheers

   By controls I meant the Titec post, stem and bars, which I would have in my head were a bit heavy/ugly.

   For the riding you describe, I'd prefer the XT of the donor to the Merlins SLX, but I ride Race Face and SRAM, so what do I know. I think the Merlin will be a perfectly able frame for your riding. I hankered after a Soul, but went for a cheaper 853 (Sanderson). I've got 100-130mm adj forks on and it'll manage anything I can (Lakes based). Check the geometry of the two frames if you can.
   Why a Soul???

   Posted 2 years ago #
10. Stiggy - Member

    I was a serial bikebuyer til' i got a soul!

    Posted 2 years ago #
11. willurd - Member

    yea, there is a part of me telling me the rocklobster is going to be the easiest, and maybe the better buy. i rode the alu frame and it didnt feel quite right, which is why i think i have the burning desire to think... get the soul and get something a little different

    like i said i have never put a bike together in the past, so this will be a good learning curve for me.

    i spoke to a guy at cotic and was told a small frame would best suit me. with that in mind a medium sized genius will hopefully be sufficient for the length of the fork in the headset? and possibly cable lengths..

    thanks again peeps

    Posted 2 years ago #
12. Coasting - Member

    Have u thought about the Prince Albert frames.Little heavier frame but nice and cheap.I had a Soul and didnt think much of it.Looked good but the ride was very ordinary.Im really liking the PA, find the ride nice and compliant and the frames very sorted especially if u like running a longer fork up front.Just a thought.

    Posted 2 years ago #
13. Bushwacked - Member

    I love my Soul - does everything I want it too.

    Posted 2 years ago #
14. alpin - Member

    get the soul and get something a little different

    bit of an oxymoron.....

    i too, like boxelder, have a Sanderson. very similar angles to the Soul (HA 1deg less, everything else is the same). you'd save yourself a fwe pennies too.

    and they're more 'different' than the soul (assuming your idea of different is something that you don't see very often).

    Posted 2 years ago #
15. skinnysteel - Member

    If the Soul suits then the donor idea looks good. Also, I'd suggest you have a look at a P7 with a few upgrades.

    Posted 2 years ago #
16. davidtaylforth - Member

    I reckon you could buy a new Soul frame, new forks, new drivetrain and new tires then buy all the other bits like wheels, bars, stem, seat, post etc 2nd hand. Then all the important bits are new and you save a load of cash on the bits that dont really matter so much.

    Posted 2 years ago #
17. willurd - Member

    right less procrastinating... i have decided, the genius is what i want to get to donate all its lovelies to the a small cotic soul!

    so do you think the medium genius, assuming being and 18" will give enough cable length, and length in the fork for the switcharoo?

    cheers again

    Posted 2 years ago #
18. willurd - Member

    'small cotic soul frame'

    59- i agree, it would probably be the cheaper option, however, my knowledge on knowing what i need is lacking etc size, spec, wear etc. this will be a good learning curve for me to then take on the 2nd hand market!

    Posted 2 years ago #
19. alpin - Member

    cable routing is similar so you should be fine, especially if you're getting a small Soul.

    you can change most parts over with a set of allen keys. although you may have to strip as much as you can from the Genesis and resist fitting it to the Soul if you can't remove the BB and head set at home.

    BB tool (just a fancy spanner) can be had for £12 (http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=3784)

    and you can make a head set remover and fitting tool yourself. for the remover you need a 1" diameter metal tube/pole 4-6" longer than the head tube. cut the end four ways and splay it. use this to knock out the cups.

    

    a head set fitting tool is easy to knock up:

    

    just make sure the washers fit snugly into the cups and make sure they go into the new frame straight.

    some decent cable cutters would also be a good bet.

    Posted 2 years ago #
20. boxelder - Member

    or carefully use wide bladed screwdriver and mallet!

    Posted 2 years ago #
21. alpin - Member

    yeah, or not run the risk of **** it up/scoring the metal and risking that the head set won't go in the next frame/the frame won't accept another head set without some filing....

    Posted 2 years ago #
22. willurd - Member

    AWESOME!

    my first purchase of bike over the interweb... DONE!

    i will be sure to let you lot know all about it in a few days time images and all. now i suppose i just sit and wait for the orange soul to come into stock. or i go for black now!!! nah, sit and wait. maybe, just maybe i will fall in love with this genius! (despite selecting a frame to large for my height!)

    again, thanks everyone, mucho appreciated!

    im sure all that advice above will become clear when the dissecting commences.

    Posted 2 years ago #
23. smell_it - Member

    Could be me but the headset on that genius looks semi intergrated, you'll need a normal 'un for the soul.

    Posted 2 years ago #
24. boxelder - Member

    yeah, or not run the risk of **** it up/scoring the metal and risking that the head set won't go in the next frame/the frame won't accept another head set without some filing....

    
    No problems in 10+ years here.

    Posted 2 years ago #
25. mingsta - Member

    Good god! That Genius is an absolute steal! Fox forks and SLX/XT groupset including brakes and decent wheelset for £799!!!

    I'd deffo go for that and whack it on the steel frame of your choice. The Cotic Soul would be lovely.

    You might need to do a bit of research on the following to check that there's no hidden costs when transferring:

    - Seatpost/Seatclamp - will it fit the Cotic?
    - Brakes - IS or Post mount? Might need adaptors
    - Front Derrailleur - Top or bottom pull?

    You should find transferring the bits largely a piece of pish...its just like playing with mechano. You can always take it to the LBS to do the finishing touches (headset transfer and any necessary fettling with gears and brakes).

    Damn I've just read the thread and realised that I'm just parrotting what amphill wrote earlier...

    Posted 2 years ago #
26. kelvin - Member

    Kit on that Genius looks spot on for a Soul.

    Posted 2 years ago #
27. kelvin - Member

    Cane Creek S1 headset is £25 if you get Cotic to fit it for you.
    Everything else you should be able to sort yourself.
    Front mech might need a different shim.
    Seatpost might not fit, but they're pretty cheap and you could sell on the one that comes with the bike, it probably won't even have been fitted into the frame so should be scratch free, easy sell.

    Posted 2 years ago #
28. willurd - Member

    i know im Ûber proud of myself, well should i say, Ûber happy that someone was able to find me an awesome donor... initially i was going to splash my dollar on this. again, value for money, brilliant, but the genius.. well its genius..

    http://paulscycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b0s2p2291

    smell... you think the headset maybe integrated to the stem? i kinda concluded i will be getting myself a new stem anyways. not sure on the size, but alot shorter then that titec. out of interest, what is the best way to figure out what stem is best suited, without a stem in place to begin with? sorry going off topic, but if its integrated, there should not being anymore of a difficulty removing it?

    yes, probably will need a new seat post. clamp is included with the soul

    brakes, im afraid you have lost me. apologies in being naive, but i hope that is something i will to pick up! will google the difference now!

    again, likewise with the derailleur :S

    yea, there is a pretty kind fella at my LBS, that will hopefully lend me a tool here or there!

    Posted 2 years ago #
29. zaskar - Inactive

    Anything in 853!

    Posted 2 years ago #
30. willurd - Member

    Anything in 853!

    sorry? i do want the soul, but i have time to change my mind. but yes an 853 is what im yearning for

    Posted 2 years ago #
31. smell_it - Member

    http://chrisking.com/tech/int_headsets_explained/int_hds_explain_2

    The above should explain, it's nowt to do with the stem. My Soul needs a conventional headset, but Kelvin above seems to have the ideal solution to it. The length of stem is a personal thing. Try the titec one for length and get a feel of how much shorter you would like it. I tend to find when I swap frames I'll try a couple of stems before I find the right one, and I use the classifieds to keep the cost down when swapping. Good luck with the build and hope you enjoy the soul, I find mine a blast!

    Posted 2 years ago #
32. kelvin - Member

    Brakes will fit. It's forks'n'brakes'n'wheels that can be fiddly to match, but as you're buying them all together, that's sorted. The rear brake will fit on the Soul just fine, if the hose is long enough.

    Shimano front mechs are all one size now, and just use different shims for different sized seat-tubes. An aftermarket mech comes with them all the shims in the box, so people should have spares knocking about; they're just simple bits of plastic.

    Posted 2 years ago #

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