• This topic has 63 replies, 29 voices, and was last updated 14 years ago by ski.
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  • Advanced Stop Lanes. What do you do?
  • barca
    Free Member

    When a car, bus, lorry etc, stops in the advance stop lane whren the lights go red. Not so much when they're in a queue of traffic at the lights and hoping to get through before the lights change, more the lights have gone to red and the vehicle drives into and stops in the ASL?
    I do various things depending on mood which can vary from stopping directly in front of the vehicle and moving forward very slowly when the lights go to green just to annoy them (very teenage I know but I have my moments) to just taking up my position in the queue of traffic behind the offending vehicle.
    Top marks to the lady on the tourer with panniers this morning at the traffic lights on the A6 who ever so slighty moved across the front of the edging forward Audi which was about to take her pannier off of the bike anyway (not that she'll see this probably). Very subtle but certainly stopped him. I think he was trying to get a better look at her. Sleaze ball.
    Go on then, what's your usual practice?

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Go in front of them – right in the middle so bang in front. Look pointedly at the lane markings and shake my head sadly. Sometimes I point to the lane markings.

    I have had reactions from apologies to a rant that the red box with the cycle in it meant no cycles on that bit of road.

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    Ignore it completely, like cycle lanes. I take my place in traffic just as the rest of the traffic does.

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    warton
    Free Member

    I don't stop at red lights, so it doesn't really affect me

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Coffeeeking – on a bike you sit in the queue rather than going to the ASL which is there for your safety?
    *scratches head*

    Stoner
    Free Member

    pull in front, straighten up, and then reverse until my back tyre is mm from their bumper.

    then pull away on the change at my convenience.

    👿

    PeterPoddy
    Free Member

    I usually just sail straight through the red light. That'll learn 'em.

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    Yes, more often than not. I dont need the ASL for safety – being ahead just gets drivers frustrated and catches me out when I'm heading to the front and the lights change unexpectedly. I'd much rather sit in the traffic where everyone knows where I am and where I can just as easily keep up with the cars? I dont really see the point of the ASL at all – I tried using them and they never provided me any support or additional anything.

    soobalias
    Free Member

    same as coffee king, cycle markings on roads are at best useless and at worst downright dangerous.

    the only time i respect an ASL is when im driving.

    BigDummy
    Free Member

    This bothers me not at all. If the ASL box is free I use it. If not, not. I have absolutely given up discussing other people's driving or riding with them unless they genuinely do nearly hit me. 🙂

    jamesgarbett
    Free Member

    Slightly off-topic but what's the point of these without an approach lane? And why aren't they all painted red? If normal black tarmac colour they seem much more likely to have a vehicle stop in them

    midlifecrashes
    Full Member

    The problem with ASL boxes is that you can't teleport into them, so unless you can be pretty sure of the timing of the lights, to get to them you usually have to filter up the left hand side, putting you just where you don't want to be if the lights change before you get there and something will turn left across you where you want to go straight on.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    coffeeking – you really sit in the queue if it is a couple of light cycles long? Why negate one of the advantages of cycling – skipping queues to save time?

    If I did that ( sat in queues) then I would add significant time to my journeys

    Edit – mid life crashes – that is simple – watch the lights as you come up to them. If it changes before you reach the front pull into the line of traffic. Simple

    Stoner
    Free Member

    The ASLs I use in London usually have double lanes approaching so I always filter up the centre, between the two lanes. As MLC says, coming up on the inside is daft if you get the timing wrong.

    TimP
    Free Member

    I feel deeply ashamed:

    I agree with and do the same as TJ

    There I have said it. Off to go and self flagellate (working from home today !).

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    I'm seriously tempted to launch an anti-road-marking campaign. I genuinely believe that all these additional road markings do is mentally alienate us from other traffic and generally endanger us. As a driver I find them a pain in the arse, as a cyclist I find they are inconveniently placed and dangerous at times and generally mean drivers expect you to be in them. When you are in them they complain just as much as when you're not in them and generally ignore them, they just create a hazard, one more thing that everyone sometimes does and sometimes doesnt obey.

    james – I think they're meant to be red at all times, the contractors probably forgot to fill it in. Theres a cracking one near me where they re-did a junction but filled the area BEHIND the ASL with red, then left a tarmac section to the white line – you get all sorts of funny stuff, cars in the clear section, bikes behind them, buses stopping behind both and bearly getting through the lights when they change etc lol.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    People driving in bus lanes during restricted hours upsets me more, I'm not quite so bothered by drivers in ASL's unless they're edging forward. WTF is the point in burning out your clutch just to crawl forward a few inches?! Stop, apply handbrake, wait for lights.

    What I do at the lights varies according to traffic/junction layout etc – often I'll wait, sometimes I'll jump them. Sometimes I'll work my way to the front, other times, if the lights are about to change it's easier and safer to just integrate with the traffic flow.

    STATO
    Free Member

    If I did that ( sat in queues) then I would add significant time to my journeys

    Who said cycling had to be quicker? if you ignored the rules of the road in your car then that journey would be quicker too.

    soobalias
    Free Member

    I just overtake usually up to just behind the first car, that way when the lights change there is time for me to get away, and pull in left so the traffic can overtake – assuming i dont just keep overtaking the next queue.

    I never ever filter up the left, i dont even really like filtering up the left of a right turning lane.

    miketually
    Free Member

    I do the same as I do at junctions that don't have an ASL – I make my own imaginary ASL in front of the lead car.

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    coffeeking – you really sit in the queue if it is a couple of light cycles long? Why negate one of the advantages of cycling – skipping queues to save time?

    Yes, because I'm using the bike because I like using the bike, not because it's significantly faster (which it's not on my commute). I use the road safely and in a manner that doesnt cause inconvenience to others. I'm not averse to nipping up the outisde of a very long stream of traffic, but in general I dont get to see traffic with more than 1 or at most 2 light cycles long and generally find that if I come up the inside and pull in front at an ASL I get drivers literally trying to drive over me rather than wait behind. And I see their point, im slower, I arrived later in the queue, then pushed to the front and held everyone up. Madness.

    Gary_M
    Free Member

    If I would have been in front of them anyway then thats where I still go. Don't do anthing daft like going slow or anything, just set off at my usual pace. Whats the point of winding folk up? Big deal they went in an asl, annoying but hardly crime of the century. A few months ago some guy was driving like a **** on my ride home – things like going up the inside of a two lane road when the inside lane was blocked then forcing his way out. He was sitting at a red light – again on the inside with the inside lane ahead blocked with the plan of getting away quick. So I rolled up in front of him – idiot strated ranting and raving that I was blocking his way, everyone was looking at him. Lights turned green and I turned left as I had intended. He looked a right prick after that.

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    He was sitting at a red light – again on the inside with the inside lane ahead blocked with the plan of getting away quick. So I rolled up in front of him – idiot strated ranting

    I can see his point, but the stupid ASLs allow you to do that so you were in the right. Ultimately it's stupid to stop the faster moving traffic for the sake of one or two car lengths. He was probably in the inside lane trying to get past because there were a bunch of sheep in the outside lane trundling along.

    Smee
    Free Member

    I am sensing a lot of road ninja vibes in the room.

    CK has it about right in my book. Just because its there, doesn't mean you have to use it. A little bit of thought would go a long way.

    Why cant we all just get along. 😉

    Gary_M
    Free Member

    He was probably in the inside lane trying to get past because there were a bunch of sheep in the outside lane trundling along.

    No he was in the inside lane because he was driving like a cock. He didn't want to be stuck behind everyone doing 30 something in a 30 he wanted to carry on at 60mph, undertake and generally drive like a cock as he had been doing before. ASL or not I still roll up to the front of a queue. Glad you could see his point though.

    What you don't seem to realise coffeeking is that if you sit x number of cars back from the front of the queue you're still holding someone up. Why does it make a difference if you do that at the front of the queue (safer) or the middle?

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Interesting coffeeking – do you actually ride much in towns? I see your point but do not agree. I am faster than a car thru traffic and don't hold anyone up – except for a few seconds to the next set of lights.

    I cycle every day in a busy urban environment.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Even if there's no ASL I'll usualy filter up and stop in front of the first car, if there's a car in the ASL tutting and shaking head dissaprovingly is the usual reaction.

    JonEdwards
    Free Member

    ASL or not I still roll up to the front of a queue

    Yup.

    Much as I love riding bikes, the real reasons to commute by bike are that it is faster and cheaper than any other from of transport (excluding possibly motorbike). Sitting in queues is pointless (within the scope of the highway code). Up to the front everytime (usually up the outside, unless I'm turning left). If somebody has decided to stop in the ASL, then I'll stop in front of them, just the same if there was no ASL. Whether I then dawdle when I pull away depends on what mood I'm in.

    Gary_M
    Free Member

    As I do TJ, I don't use asl's for speed I use them because they are safer. At the few junctions that I don't move to the front I find them pretty hazerdous, you're sitting between two cars and in slow moving traffic the car in front generally applies the brakes because they set off too fast in relation to the car in front so you don't generally get a clean get away. At the front of the junction I'm clipped in and off, if I was a slow rider things might be different.

    STATO
    Free Member

    ASL's are not there to allow cyclist to 'jump' infront of a queue of traffic. They are there so that cyclists have somewhere to go when the queue of cars overtaking them stop for lights, otherwise they may end up stuck on the left of a queue with the possibility of one of the cars turning left into them. Giving these cyclists an area to merge with the stationary traffic in a high visibility and safe location is the point. If your quick enough to keep up with or overtake traffic then you dont need (tho you may find it usefull) the ASL as you can easilly just take a place in the queue when the lights change.

    Gary_M
    Free Member

    Stato, see info below from a government guide to introducing asl's at junctions.

    ASLs are a low cost method of helping cyclists at signal controlled junctions (Photo 7.1). They enable cyclists to move off ahead of other vehicles and clear the junction first. They are particularly useful:

    – for cyclists wishing to turn right at junctions
    – for giving straight ahead cyclists a better chance of avoiding conflict with left turning general traffic
    – in helping to make cyclists more visible to motorists thus reducing potential conflict
    – for improving journey times for cyclists, as they help to bypass queuing traffic
    – for enabling cyclists to avoid breathing in exhaust fumes from stationary traffic.

    D0NK
    Full Member

    CK you obviously have a different commute to quite a few of us here and it sounds like your tactics match your route, good for you. Not a good move for everyone tho. If there's a narrow bit of road coming up where I don't want to be overtaken I'll get in line and stay in the middle of the lane, I don't jump the queue and we all move along nicely when lights change, I'll move over to the left and allow overtaking when we get to a wider section of road. But never filtering passed queues would seriously increase bike commute times, my route has long queues followed by open stretches, cars overtake on open sections, bikes overtake at the queues, it evens out. (Lets not even get started on the tools who scream passed you then have to slam on to get in the queue of traffic in front boxing you in)
    I commute by bike not just cos I enjoy riding but also cos I hate sitting in traffic.

    acjim
    Free Member

    I can't be bothered with antagnosing drivers anymore, stress leads to stress leads to … loop to fade IME.

    ASL's are very useful though, especially at dodgy junctions where you have 2 lanes and no room for bikes.

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    Gary_m – I do realise I might be holding someone up, but I also realise that by sitting further back in the queue I have time to clip in and get ready to get going at full tilt before the traffic in front moves significantly, this means I can match traffic speeds without holding anyone up at all. In traffic situations I'm rarely the slowest one there, unless I'm at the front, when the lights go green and the car behind was sat balanced on his clutch and attempts to drive over me while I'm clipping in. Sitting further back in the queue makes you no less safe at all, I still sit in the middle of the lane and block the driver behind from squishing me against the kerb, I just avoid:

    Being "doored"
    Being caught half-way to the front on a light change
    Peeing off the drivers for queue jumping.

    D0NK – I do commute pretty well and besides the odd near-T-bone I never have problems at junctions. I never said NEVER overtake queues, and I especially mentioned that in multiple-cycle queues I do skip to the front, but only if there's traffic queueing on the far side of the junction too. I dont really mind sitting in traffic. If I did I wouldnt use the road network to commute, by bike or by car. I simply said that ASLs are generally pointless and cause more problems than they're worth. I have (and still do) commuted in two major cities (Liverpool and Glasgow), approx 30 miles a day, half of each being in city centre traffic, the other half being open 60 limits. I just follow the same rules everyone else does in cars and I get along just fine. I dont see cycling as a cheap and easy ticket to a quick commute, if I did I'd probably jump reds too.

    The very idea of a junction with two lanes yet "no room for bikes" is a quandry to me. Stay in your lane, in the primary position and you have all the space you want, just stop skipping to the front when you're only 3 or 4 cars from the junction anyway and then force everyone to re-overtake you 30 seconds later.

    D0NK
    Full Member

    Oh and if someone overtakes me coming up to some lights and pulls in and inch from the kerb I'll be going round them and doing a go slow when the lights change – just because*

    Admittedly acjim takes the moral high ground (and lower blood pressure) there 🙂

    *whereas if someone overtakes then maintains the same road position I'll stay next to them at the stop line so they can get away quickly if they feel the need.

    Gary_M
    Free Member

    I do realise I might be holding someone up, but I also realise that by sitting further back in the queue I have time to clip in and get ready to get going at full tilt before the traffic in front moves significantly

    I have time to clip in too, this is because I know the sequence of the lights so know when the lights I'm at are about to change. I'm seldom able to put the hammer down if I'm sitting behind a car as they don't move off quickly enough – to do this I would have to leave an asl sized gap between me and the car in front (which would be silly). I would say your methods probably holds the traffic up more than moving to the front.

    Regarding 'Being caught half-way to the front on a light change' – again it's about knowing your route and knowing the lights. I can see this happening if you don't know the junction though. But on my commute if I get through traffic light x then I know traffic light y will change as I approach and so on.

    just stop skipping to the front when you're only 3 or 4 cars from the junction anyway and then force everyone to re-overtake you 30 seconds late

    But cars do that all the time.

    Maybe not using asl's works for you but it works for me through the south side of Glasgow. If I used your method I'd still be in Shawlands at 6pm rather than 15 miles further down the road.

    anotherdeadhero
    Free Member

    I'm loving the 'tutters' – if somebody's in the ASL box do you really think they care in the slightest that a bloke on a bike is tutting at them?

    acjim
    Free Member

    coffeeking, some of the junctions I use have lines of up to thirty or forty cars, most will be at least ten, so filtering and then using an ASL makes sense IMO. If it's only a couple of cars then no worries, stay put.

    I also think it's a bit of leap to say that using ASLs/passing queues is similar in anyway to RLJ!

    oh, btw – if you trackstand you don't need to unclip/clip – and kids think you're cool 🙂

    jonb
    Free Member

    I normally pull in front in the new advanced ASL and give a disapprovimg look to the driver. Normally tey don't have a clue. One that keeps it clear is the exception rather than rule in Newcastle.

    I tried pulling in front of a young lady when she was in an ASL and she got annoyed rev'd overtook and pulled up into the next one at the lights. So I repeated and so did she. By the third set of lights she was gesticulating something but I couldn't make out what. On your driving test you will fail if you cross a stop line without stoppping. Is this the case for an ASL and is there anything can be done?

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    Gary_m – I'm not sure how slow the traffic moves around you, but I'm usually able to sit with the traffic within a car space. I've never had problems "putting the hammer down" in a queue,and certanly dont leave an ASL space.

    The lights on my 3 possible routes change depending on the traffic levels on each arm, they're not overly predictable, and generally they're not on straight roads so I cant see what arm will move next and which just moved until I've started filtering to the front.

    just stop skipping to the front when you're only 3 or 4 cars from the junction anyway and then force everyone to re-overtake you 30 seconds late

    But cars do that all the time.

    Cars do what all the time? Its really only on open roads that I ever have cars overtake me, in city traffic (anything from about 4 miles out of the west end) I'm usually as fast if not faster than the cars and none overtake me, unless I skip to the front and then provide a slow start. Of course I could "predict" the lights and dart early, but that's just skipping reds essentially.

    acjim – if you read my posts above you'd see I said exactly that, now you're repeating it back to me as if I didnt?

    And I never said ASLs or passing queues were similar to RLJing.

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