There are a couple of regular "traders" that are basically "untouchable" despite regularly flouting the site rules. Don't expect an explanatory response when you report them and their ads remain.
Ad Spoiling - New Rule: Don't do it. It's very annoying!
druidh - Member
There are a couple of regular "traders" that are basically "untouchable" despite regularly flouting the site rules. Don't expect an explanatory response when you report them and their ads
I'd ask you to name and shame but we'd be the ones banned.....
Why not report them, we review and ban lots of suspected traders.
Great to see. Is annoying when it happens.
Understand both sides of the argument. But views and opinions on prices!! People posting topics in the classified aren't asking people for them. So why the need to express them and get involved? Sure the forums are a great way to chat and rant and debate and share. And who cares if some people only come on here to sell. Heck I'm guilty. I would post in the chat forum more often if I had the time and a job where I had access to the internet maybe. I enjoy this site immensely. And love the diversity of the people who you bump into on here.
Too high, don't buy and pass by...
Let the rule stick!!
+ 1 Mrs Toast ,druidh and the rest,it's about the community.
I'd be interested to know if these regular sellers contribute to STW when they do particularly well out of a sale as the message above this thread says...
It may be sold out, but a hike of £70 over the brand new price is taking the proverbial.
According to the new rule, I can't post on that post and share my thoughts to help other STW users, and to let the user know they are looking to profit from misfortune - i.e. Google Play store being out of stock at the moment. We as a community should look to help each other, not gain when you have the chance.
If that was me, I'd be selling at the price I paid - everyone wins then, I get my money back, buyer gets an out of stock item for the price they would have paid. Happy days.
This is the kind of thing that's in the interest of the STW community to protect users against, who aren't in the know.
It's a free market, but it's also a community - the sellers aren't paying anything to post sales here so we should police them as a community.
and the bearded one up there being another pro-rule advocate who exclusively sells rather than contributes to the community in the main forums.
I cant see how it can be any clearer to STW towers that their policy on this rule sets them out as being anti-community and pro-sellers, and I cant see why they'd want to swing that way?
If you think someone is seller items for profit like the examples above you can report them and we will review them. On my way back finishing work, I'll try to take a look when I get home. After a 13.5 hour shift I'm not that keen to do any modding but I'll try to look at them. In future please report them not post in a topic as we don't all spend every spare minute on here. Thanks.
you sound tired, so I'll let you off Drac
but its not a case of "reporting" stuff.
it's that Mark & The Mods now effectively ban community intervention/interaction on classifieds posts. Why not re-word it so the emphasis is on "dont be an arsehole on someone else's classifieds post", i.e. no shit-stirring, no trolling, no abuse etc. Which is what SOME cases of "spoiling" might be considered but not ALL of them. Then you can use the existing policy of post-reporting for negative use of the forum without scaring-off those who want to help out other users and keep the classifieds honest.
I'm talking about the 2 cases above Stoner, that's clearly in the rules.
and the more general point that the new blanket anti-"spoliling" rule is overbearing?
I don't agree it's an overbearing rule. If an ad is a problem then report it or contact the seller directly.
Here's the text of the rule
Please respect users' Ads. If you have no intention of buying an item then please refrain from posting comments on the ad. If you have genuine concerns about an ad then report it to the moderators. Posting seemingly helpful comments about an item being cheaper elsewhere often upsets the original poster and spoils their ad. If you genuinely want to help the seller or potential buyer then contact them directly off forum.
If you feel that your ad has been spoiled by a third party then use the 'Report this' link on the post in question to alert the moderators. The moderators will then look at the reported post and decide if action needs to be taken. Moderators will not be proactive with this rule. They will only act if a post is reported to them using the 'Report this' function.
If we agree that a post is an Ad Spoiler then we will warn the user, delete their posts and any subsequent replies in order to do our best to return the ad to it's pre-spoiled state. Repeat offenders risk a ban from the forum.
If someone is profiteering then that's against the rules. Like all rule breaches we will act if they are reported. There is nothing in that rule that prevents any users from helping the community. You just simply need to report it or contact the seller.
If you have no intention of buying an item then please refrain from posting comments on the ad. If you have genuine concerns about an ad then report it to the moderators.
If someone is profiteering then that's against the rules
So for absolute clarity, if one were to see a classifieds that was taking the piss, you want someone more community minded to take up Mod time by using #report post and then leave it to the judgement of the Mod to act and hope they do so before someone is suckered?
have Mods respond appropriately to classifieds-only dwellers when they whine that someone out there is looking out for the people who hang out here?
And you're happy that's how you want forum members who make the place what it is feel their contributions are valued by STW?
Im losing the love here Mark.
All we have to do is have the poll. That'll show that those in favour of the new rule outnumber those against "by an order of magnitude" and all the whingers will just have to grin and bear it.
I'd fully agree that sometimes some of the comments on the for sale threads go too far with Micky taking of the o.p for asking too much and this needs to be stopped as it doesn't reflect well on the forum but as many others have said above, in the spirit of the forum community surely there is no harm in pointing out go your "friends" that you've seen the items advertised elsewhere for less.
You only need to take a look at some of the posts on the main forum pages to realise that some people's "google-fu" is not as strong as others and if you're trying to stop another forum member from being stung, surely thats a good thing?
As Druidh says, why not put it to the poll?
It's mark's site and business, so in fairness he can do what he wants.
But likewise, one of my xmas presents was a sub to a mag of my choice, and this rule and a couple of other things i've noted on here will mean it won't be stw. I think mrstoast sums it up for me in relation to this rule, but given some of the zealots on this thread, i suspect that quite a few who support this rule will keep their heads down rather than supporting it. Given the amount of time that some of the big hitters spend on here it would be better for some shonky sellers not to attract their attention.
The ethos of this forum must be one of mutual respect for everyone who uses it. You may argue and debate with anyone but when the argument becomes heated or abuse begins to creep in, then you will have crossed the line. If you don't step back from it then you will likely be moderated.
Respect for everyone is paramount. If we see evidence or have good reason to believe that you are looking to get a rise or to deliberately force a reaction from any other users (Trolling) then we will stop you.
If you are here to chat, respectfully debate issues or ask genuine questions of the thousands of users who come here then you are welcome to stay and we have no doubts you will add positively to our huge community.
From the bike forum sticky.
The rules and ethos stated for the bike forum appear to agree with Mrs Toast's points and those raised by others here...
I think those that are against should just shut up and leave people to sell in piece. If someone is charging more than so what!! None of your business. Sainsburys was selling loaf for more than asda was do you want to complain about that! Same thing in my opinion.
Yes I do re post my Vw van with low miles for £5100. And from what I gather its perfectly fine for me to do so! And ill keep doing it till I sell it.
Oh yeah and I hope the mods have seen that I was singled out by "aracer" on the page before.
Yes I do re post my Vw van with low miles for £5100. And from what I gather its perfectly fine for me to do so! And ill keep doing it till I sell it
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
I think that nasty man 'Aracer' was doing you a favour.
Not trying to get different results idiot it's called selling, one result which is to sell item. If your going to comment put something that makes sense.
Seriously I can't believe there are so many people moaning that they can't spoil someone's post! And yet these doughnuts bang on about community. Shops all over the world sell stuff for more than another shop. If people but it it's their choice. I think ad spoiling is another term for trolling!!
And from what I gather its perfectly fine for me to do so! And ill keep doing it till I sell it.
It may not be banned, but it's still anti-social.
But from the tone of Marks' posts I guess he's more than happy for the classifieds boards to be clogged with crap these days.
We will only look at an ad if it is reported to us. By either the op or another forum user. If you point out to a 'friend' on their ad that they are selling too high and they are grateful and happy about that then they won't report it and we won't step in. If they think you are not helping then they will ask us to look at it. If we agree then will will moderate. If we don't agree and we think they are trying to pull a fast one then we won't moderate or we may pull the ad altogether.
The point here is that letting the community do the 'moderating' isn't working and genuine sellers are having ads spoiled by almost vigilante style groups of users patrolling and commenting at will on any ads they please is not a good thing for the community everyone is claiming to care about. The answer is simple, fair and consistent. If you spot a problem with an ad then alert us if you think someone is at risk of being ripped off by a seller profiteering. Or alert the op if you want to help them price their sale better.
But, if the op decides that despite it being sold at a discount somewhere else they want to keep their asking price, then so long as they follow classifieds rules about private, not for profit selling, then that is entirely their choice. Just because something may be cheaper elsewhere does not mean they are trying to rip off other members of the community.
No one is trying to stop users helping the rest of the community but by allowing free reign to comment at will on other genuine users posts this has had the opposite effect, despite the best of intentions.
Just report the ads to us if you have suspicions about the sellers motives or contact the seller direct if you want to help them. You can post on their ad if you want but bear in mind that runs the risk if it being reported by the seller if they think you are spoiling their ad, although if its not just a simple matter of price we won't necessarily agree with them.
So yes Stoner, we do want you to take up mods time with this, because we care enough about the community to think it would be a good use of their time.
But, if the op decides that despite it being sold at a discount somewhere else they want to keep their asking price, ...that is entirely their choice. Just because something may be cheaper elsewhere does not mean they are trying to rip off other members of the community.
Indeed, but if someone is re-posting EVERY single day the same overpriced ad it a) is clogging the board with something obviously no-one wants at that price or at all and b) to a small extent it's rather insulting to the audience to presume that if you fish for long enough you'll catch a sucker.
If we don't agree and we think they are trying to pull a fast one then we won't moderate or we may pull the ad altogether.
That will be the test. Any plans to provide guidance on what you call a "fast one"?
The rules are clear. Profiteering is a fast one for example.
And to be clear on that... Profiteering does not mean selling something at a higher price than it is available elsewhere, it means selling at a higher price than it was bought for by the seller.
Other than that you seem to be asking to make a judgement on what gets sold. If something doesn't sell then it can be reposted after 24 hours. That's always been the rule. That rule is designed specifically to prevent clogging of the ads. Now if you are suggesting that rule needs to be changed then let's talk about that.
As a real world, timely example, this has just been sent by a moderator to a seller...
"Your post is in breach of the rules regarding Trade Posts. You're boosting the phone by £70 trying to take advantage of low stocks, post deleted."
Although its fundamentally just a trade post, the likes of which we deal with on a daily basis, it does also show that we already look closely at the deals and make decisions based on trying to protect the community from profiteering and unethical sellers.
I think those that are against should just shut up and leave people to sell in piece.
Says the classifieds only user. Ooh there I go again <slaps own wrist>
Though I have a funny suspicion you only posted again to this thread because you don't think re-posting the ad to your van several times a week is quite enough and thought you'd just drop an extra ad in here in case it helps <finger poised over report-post>
Just because something may be cheaper elsewhere does not mean they are trying to rip off other members of the community.
Now I'm really struggling with this one, Mark. So somebody is selling for more than you can buy new if you search, isn't interested in changing their price when somebody points this out to them, and reports any post pointing out the price issue on their for sale thread as being "unhelpful". In what way exactly isn't this attempting to rip off other members of the community? Surely if they weren't trying to rip off other members of the community they'd be perfectly happy to have other posts on their thread pointing out the price disparity. Yet apparently this is the point you'll step in in order to help them rip off the community. You're going to have to explain this one better to us, Mark.
Not trying to get different results idiot it's called selling, one result which is to sell item.
How's that working out for you?
Mark » genuine sellers are having ads spoiled by almost vigilante style groups of users patrolling and commenting at will on any ads they pleaseReally? I open the classifieds and will open posts on items I might be interested in buying or if I have similar I want to sell (to get an idea of price). It never occurred to me that some folk were opening all posts and reviewing them against Google Shopping. If so, then the new rule is obviously saving these folk from themselves and should be commended.
You could always ask "the community" whether they want to see this new rule kept in place. It shouldn't take long as those in favour exceed those against "by an order of magnitude".
This price differential appears to be the sticking point. Fundamentally the price set is down to the seller. they decide the price and so long as it doesn't break classifieds rules it's deserving of respect from other users. posting on their ad that it is cheaper elsewhere is not always helpful. where it isn't helpful its annoying enough for users to complain to us and decide not to use the forum. That doesn't help the community. Sellers are part of the community deserve our support just as much as the buyers. where the seller feels their ad has been sabotaged unhelpfully then we will act to protect their ad. It is the seller who decides if their ad has been helped or sabotaged. If they think the latter they will report it to us and we will look at it ourselves. If the seller has broken no rules then we will probably agree with them and moderate the 'help'.
Selling at a price more expensive than elsewhere is not against the rules.
Selling for more than it was bought for IS against the rules.
Here's an example.. I buy a set of Monkeylite bars used once from a seller on here that i know. he sells them for £30. But they are available new from an online seller for £30 new. I know the seller - I know the bars are as new - I would rather someone I know in this community got my £30 rather than the online business so I decide to go ahead with the sale despite the fact that, odd as it may seem to some arbitrary, unaccountable observers, I can get it new or maybe even cheaper, elsewhere.
When it comes to suitability of ads (which may look like forum posts and be delivered by forum software but are not forum posts but are actually someone's private ad) then the arbiters of whether the ad is suitable to exist or not is down to the moderators. You may report an ad if it is unsuitable. You may contact the seller directly if you think they have got something wrong or have priced it badly. But you do not have the right to post whatever you feel like posting for whatever arbitrary reason you feel you have on someone's ad that does not break our forum rules.
And once again... Pricing a sale at more then it can be bought elsewhere is NOT against the rules. If you post on an ad for this reason then you will be moderated IF it is reported to us by the OP.
Posting on an ad that breaks the rules will not be moderated even if they are reported to us by the OP as ad spoilers.
Beans may be sold cheaper at ASDA than Tesco. You may tell Tesco directly that they are more expensive but you can't put a poster on their front door saying 'BEANS CHEAPER AT ASDA!'
which may look like forum posts and be delivered by forum software but are not forum posts but are actually someone's private ad
Classifieds ads to be paid for (or you get a free weekly/monthly issue of classifieds "posting credits"). Email for all contact must be in user page or on the ad. Threads locked for posts.
If the distinction is that they are "classifieds ads" and not part of the forum community, then lets treat them as such.
Threads locked for posts.
I thought that.
It would be good if only OP could post on their own thread and had to provide contact details in ad/profile. Would allow for lists and OP to update with stuff that was sold.
All negotiation on price etc offline.
but with thread locks must also go limited classifieds posting, otherwise you end up with the same spamming thats in there now with people repeating their ads every single day with over the top prices. If we cant tell them theyre being irritating, then at least minimise their ability to be so.
I don't have a problem with people posting the same ads repeatedly. I do object to lazy linking to yesterdays ad ad infinitum, though.
It either goes away or they sell it in the end.
Posting on their ad that it is cheaper elsewhere is not always helpful. where it isn't helpful its annoying enough for users to complain to us and decide not to use the forum. That doesn't help the community. Sellers are part of the community deserve our support just as much as the buyers
A lot of sellers are not part of the community they appear here to just sell- like someone entering the pub only to sell their wares rather than buy a drink. They are using the community for what they can get and we cannot comment on this
I buy a set of Monkeylite bars used once from a seller on here that i know. he sells them for £30. But they are available new from an online seller for £30 new. I know the seller - I know the bars are as new - I would rather someone I know in this community got my £30 rather than the online business so I decide to go ahead with the sale despite the fact that, odd as it may seem to some arbitrary, unaccountable observers, I can get it new or maybe even cheaper, elsewhere.
Unfortunately we are not allowed to let the seller make the same informed decision as you as they are not to be told it is cheaper elsewhere so they lack the knowledge that you have to make an informed decision.
Its more like you dont know the price, we do, and we sit back and watch you [over]pay. Its only a choice if you know you are doing it.
To be fair you do make some valid points [and thanks for explaining] but so do those who disagree
I think its a fair point to not spoil ads if it is second hand price you think is high but if it is dearer than new why can this not be stated?
I agree it does not break the rules but then again it would not be a hard rule to introduce - seller please check the internet for current prices including deals as we have an informed audience and it is unlikely to sell if it is at an inflated price for example.
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