Just want to see if anyone has any particular opinion on this.

My cottage is in a row of 4, 3rd along so terraced. Access according to my deeds (that also have some silly stuff in like, no more than 1 pet per household etc etc) illustrate that access is via the side of the 1st, then along the back of the 1st and 2nd. This seemed a bit silly, crossing two properties, so we’ve been accessing via the 4th side and rear garden on and off since we moved in mostly due to the 1st and 2nd not being occupied. The owners of the 4th built a path along the route I use leading to my garden before we moved in, I can only assume for this purpose.

For the last 4 years and since the 1st and 2nd cottages have been occupied, the 4th cottage has been left empty by the owners, as they moved to London with them returning to scotland every year for between 2 and 5 days to ‘fanny about’ with the house.

They returned earlier in the week, just as I was completing a garden remodel and of course, lots of stuff neatly stored temporarily (as I though I’d explained well to them) on their garden, nect to our fence as there wasnt room at the time to keep it in mine.

I should probably point out at this time I have no contact details for them and they do not wish to give them to me. Last time we asked they said they would, then just left, but that’s another matter.

So, bloke starts having a barney at me, in his best pigeon english (they’re Iranian) for leaving stuff in his land. I managed to speak to wifey who’s much more amicable and agreed I’d move it tonight, but as a result he’s saying that we’ll not be able to go through his garden to get to ours.

I’m sure they’ll disappear again soon, but wifey was saying they were going to do some of the major repairs and move back in with the smaller 3 kids when the house is done, or it may sell.

Am I stuffed and have to get the 1st and 2nd cottages to fit gates now to allow me access as per the deeds or is there some common sense that prevails in these circumstances?

Suppose I could try to pursuede him into a gentlemens agreement.

Think you’ll be reverting to what’s in the deeds. I guess you’ve blown the gentlemans agreement. By storing stuff on his land which technically you have no access to.

Am I stuffed and have to get the 1st and 2nd cottages to fit gates now

Sounds like they should already have gates to allow access as per the deeds. Obviously no point in being shirty about it yet, but it sounds like a gentle reminder will be in order

They returned earlier in the week, just as I was completing a garden remodel and of course, lots of stuff neatly stored temporarily (as I though I’d explained well to them) on their garden, nect to our fence as there wasnt room at the time to keep it in mine.

You were taking the piss and got caught.

Apologise profusely and be nice.

If access is noted in the deeds of all the properties then surely there should be gates already into one another gardens already.

If you don’t have rights to cross the occasional neighbours garden you don’t have a right gentleman’s agreement or not.

Apologise and see if they let you cross through there garden.

Edit: way too slow!

Suppose I could try to pursuede him into a gentlemens agreement

I’d be going round there with a peace offering at the very least, as you did use his garden as your storage space without his permission…

Is there not something about length of time you have been using the route?

I suspect you are stuck with what the deeds say though as they dont need to let you use their garden

You’ve dropped a right bollock there, son. 🙂

Looks like you’re standing dinner and prostrating yourself at your neighbours feet for the next few weeks

You were taking the piss and got caught.

Apologise profusely and be nice.

maybe so, if it were a week earlier or week later there would have been nothing there, typical really, we’ve not seen them for just over a year!

I was incredibly diplomatic, apologised and shifted the remaining stuff early this morning.

trouble is, I’ll need to carry the stuff through their back garden to get it to my car to take it to the dump..

I will of course be nice and civil, I really don’t enjoy conflict with neighbours, and hoep we can come to some sort of agreement.

In terms of the deeds I would challenge the reasoning behind it. They were adjusted by the previous landowner, who owned all but the 4th cottage. Prior to that the land immediately surrounding the cottages was communal, with about 2m gap before accessing the rear gardens.

Just seems a bit daft having to go through 2 gardens rather than just the one, but hey ho.

I’d be going round there with a peace offering at the very least, as you did use his garden as your storage space without his permission..

I sought permission at soonest opportunity, which in this case was as soon as they arrived as we don’t have any forwarding details for them. Had we had details, or if they were living there I’d have asked permission of course. Wifey agreed when I told her, that it was OK at the time (monday) as it was well out of the way and anything around or near there end of the communal driveway was shifted immediately.

my wife however is more of the opinion that they abandon their house for 12 months, we maintain the immediate surroundings so it’s not totally wild and they come back and have a go, but with more fruity language.

but anyway, this is more about maintaining access, I’ll talk to them about it, see what they say, if not, I’ll have a word with the neighbours we get on with.

as a side, they put up fences to make sure their dogs don’t get out and at the time, we were enjoying unrestricted access, with permission vai the 4th cottages rear garden, so didn’t need a gate.

Is there not something about length of time you have been using the route?

20 years I think. we’ve been using it for 8…

Ihope they get it fixed and sell, that way it’s a fresh start with new neighbours.

If they do sell, it’s likely the new owner will want you to comply with the deeds, so best to sort out 1 and 2 with gates.

it might seem a bit daft, but it clearly says so on the deeds which you reviewed before you bought the property.

you can hardly blame the homeowner for coming home when you didnt expect them. you wouldnt have just let yourself in and stored a load of furniture in their house “because you had nowhere else to store it”

you took the piss, got caught, suck it up.

Im in a similar situation, the access (front and rear) has minimal gate widths and cost share for maintenence stated in the deeds. My neighbour took the liberty of moving a gate before I moved in and thinks that now the access has moved – it hasnt.

I grew up in Kiwiland, so I apologies if this seems rather direct and informal of me.

Invite all 4 neighbours over.
Stoke up BBQ.
Drink beer.
Agree access that makes sense for all.
Drink more beer.
See lawyers on Monday to get deeds sorted as agreed.

they abandon their house for 12 months, we maintain the immediate surroundings so it’s not totally wild and they come back and have a go

Very kind of you to keep their holiday home looking good FOC, they probably love their bolt-hole with it’s self-maintaining garden!

I sought permission at soonest opportunity, which in this case was as soon as they arrived as we don’t have any forwarding details for them. Had we had details, or if they were living there I’d have asked permission of course.

Sorry but this is right out of order. It’s one thing using their garden if you’d asked for permission in advance, but you can’t use it and then ask if it’s OK when they arrive and get shirty when they say no.

trouble is, I’ll need to carry the stuff through their back garden to get it to my car to take it to the dump..

No you don’t, you can use the route as set out in the deeds or go through your house.

Use route according to deeds, you might need an axe for the first trip to get through fences blocking the way. 😉

How does the second cottage access his garden?

I’d suggest that the best test of the argument of “it is close to ours, they weren’t using and it would all been OK if they didn’t find out” is to buy your neighbour a bottle of chloroform and leave the back door on the latch each evening.

The joys of shared access!

I have a right of way (I believe) across my neighbours garden to access my back garden. Problem is it will be in their deeds not mine as it’s a requirement on them to have to allow access, so never actually seen it in writing. Anyway, first thing I did when move in was fix a hole in the fence which my other neighbour had been using for access (to which they had no rights as my deeds mention nothing). So he then had to take his other neighbour to court to regain his official access across their garden (which had been deliberately blocked). Cost £1000s apparently and took months to regain access…

All sorted now though…

“You were taking the piss and got caught.”

Is about the size of it.

Then, you get a bit xenophobic about it:

“So, bloke starts having a barney at me, in his best pigeon english (they’re Iranian)”

WTF does it matter where they’re from, or how good their English is? You took the piss and they’re justfiably pissed off. You’ve failed to respect their right to quiet enjoyment of their own property and illegally dumped stuff on their land! Seems like you’ve mentioned their nationality as away of trying to make them look unreasonable. You’re bang out of order and that’s that.

lol. yes.

Sorry but this is right out of order. It’s one thing using their garden if you’d asked for permission in advance, but you can’t use it and then ask if it’s OK when they arrive and get shirty when they say no.

easy there tiger, I don’t remember getting shirty, there would have been no point at that as yes ultimately they are correct, it’s just about how the situation is managed from there on.

quite like the BBQ idea. 😉

Maybe I’ve got an unrealistically chilled out attitude to it then, but if it were me, I’d state clearly that the stuff needed moved, but wouldn’t be entirely surprised if neighbours stuff had migrated a little into my garden after not being there for a year, and then a year before that, and then 18 months before that…

It doesn’t make it right, but I does seem a little contradictory to their ideas of what they thought boundaries should be when they were living there. Their kids running about in our garden, playing football outside our front door, randomly turning up to see the guy wandering about on my roof, that sort of stuff. I wasn’t overly fussed about that

WTF does it matter where they’re from, or how good their English is?

Ah, shit, I see where you’re coming from but it was supposed to be an illustration of pre-existing communication difficulties, nothing more, really, nothing more.

You’ve failed to respect their right to quiet enjoyment of their own property and illegally dumped stuff on their land!

yep, that’s the black and white of it.

Maybe I’ve got an unrealistically chilled out attitude to it then, but if it were me, I’d state clearly that the stuff needed moved, but wouldn’t be entirely surprised if neighbours stuff had migrated a little into my garden after not being there for a year, and then a year before that, and then 18 months before that…

I think pretty much everyone else would be been throwing the other persons stuff over the fence if it wasn’t moved immediately.

It doesn’t make it right, but I does seem a little contradictory to their ideas of what they thought boundaries should be when they were living there. Their kids running about in our garden, playing football outside our front door

Have you got a separate garden then or is it just a big open space? no fence etc. I dont think its particularly clear.

Thing is, you don’t get to dictate how they feel/react to things, that’s their choice. The good thing is that you’ve admitted you’re in the wrong, so that goes some way to you now having to make it right. You’ve made decisions based on what’s convenient for you, without respecting their legal rights. You need to go out of your way to make them happy now.

So, they came back to their house to find a load of your crap in their garden? (you mentioned taking it to the dump, so I’m assuming it was rubbish)

I think his reaction is justified frankly.

If they’re kind enough to allow you access over their property, that isn’t in the deeds, you should be doing your level best to not rock the boat in any way.

It’s an odd place for sure,

to the rear there’s no fence between our garden and the 4th cottages garden. They have a path at the rear of their garden, but most of the garden space between that and their cottage is taken up with the old toilet block for the cottages(now converted to their sheds). there is a fence up in the bit immediately outside our back door to a small retaining wall of the rear garden.

to the front, running along thr fronts of the cottages is a driveway, offset a bit across that is our parking bay with access to our front garden. The garden has hedges dividing the land.

so, sorta open ish, but not quite private.

So, they came back to their house to find a load of your crap in their garden? (you mentioned taking it to the dump, so I’m assuming it was rubbish)

Not a load of crap, we’re talking about shed panels that were leant up against the back fence and a fairly small pile of wood.

and yes, I should have moved it as soon as I could, but I left it too long. This I’ve known since leaving it there.

Thing is, you don’t get to dictate how they feel/react to things, that’s their choice.

yeah, I see that and I suppose it’s something I personally find difficult to predict and misjudged it.

You need to suck it up, go round cap in hand and smooth the waters that you have made choppy. Offer some taarof* – maybe suggest as recompense you clear up that bit of the garden you left in a state** + a bit more besides

*Persian form of civility
**in his eyes

maybe suggest as recompense you clear up that bit of the garden you left in a state**

yeah did that this morning, cleared all of it away into my garden, swept up, moved weeds and dirt from the path, cleared tree clippings into green bin.

I’m going to go round after work and offer apologies to the guy now that he’s calmer. It’s pretty obvious that I made a few assumptions that were well off the mark.

As long as you make that clear to him I’d think it’ll all be ok. Be humble.

Don’t be a doormat though!

I hope so. neighbours don’t have to be friends, but we need to get along, escpecially when we all have shared spaces.

How does the second cottage access his garden?

Best question.

neighbours don’t have to be friends, but we need to get along, escpecially when we all have shared spaces.

Neighbours should be there for one another, that’s when good neighbours become good friends.

Neighbours should be there for one another, that’s when good neighbours become good friends.

+1

Closer each day, home and away

Well, if the 3rd cottage (op) accesses his garden through 1 and 2, surely 2 accesses his garden through 1?

3rd suggested that over time 1+2 have closed off the access

Am I stuffed and have to get the 1st and 2nd cottages to fit gates now

2 through 1 yes.

so really only one gate needed, but I’m hoping we’ll not need to go down that route.

bit of a hazy head today…

tbh i think youve got away with this. Id have made you move it that instant tbh.

Take it through your house.