ABS on motorbike....thinking of selling mine to get bike with ABS.......

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ABS on motorbike....thinking of selling mine to get bike with ABS.......

48 posts & 24 voices | Started 1 year ago by hopefiendboy | Latest reply from richcc

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hopefiendboy - Member

Hi All

I've got a 1999 Fazer FZS 600 and its a great bike, only 23.5k miles on the clock and in good used condition. Now, there have been a couple of times that heavy braking due to the stupidity of other road users has caused me to do some heavy braking- and a little bit of wheel lock. Now, if this was to happen at higher speed things might not have been so manageable.

Considering getting rid of mine and getting something like a Bandit/Honda CBF600 or a Kawasaki ER6f with ABS....

What/where when would you advertise the bike to do this, and have you any experience with the above group of bikes? Several local dealers have these in stock, so a trade in might be an option, but dont know about how much £££ i would get for mine.

Any advice appreciated!!

Cheers

Posted 1 year ago #
cynic-al - Member

Front-wheel lock-ups are teh fastest way to stop a bike. Why would you want ABS?

Posted 1 year ago #
Pigface - Member

Having ABS wont stop you having to do emergency stops because of other people stupidity. I rode a k1000 beemer with ABS and it was just weird just felt slightly wrong.

Wouldnt be my first consideration if I was buying a bike.

Posted 1 year ago #
bassspine - Member

for the two times that ABS probably saved my bacon I reckon it was worth the money (BMW F650GSA). Notably feeling the ABS cut in as I emergency stopped over a wet manhole cover when a taxi pulled out on me, and I didn't quite hit his door (his passenger squeaked!).

( ABS still won't let you lock on in the middle of a corner though.)

On the motorcycling forums I read the jury is still out on ABS, as Pigface says, not the first consideration in a m/cycle purchase.

Posted 1 year ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

I had a BMW with 2nd generation ABS and I thought it great. Hitting diesel or similar while braking at speed it made it easier to recover the skid,

It is not the end all and be all because you can still lose he front wheel under braking while turning.

Maybe get some advanced instruction and practice hard braking tho?

Posted 1 year ago #
PeterPoddy - Member

ABS is worth it. I had it on a scooter and it was brilliant! Heave on the brakes and it stops silly fast!

Although personally, I'd say your Fazer is a better bike than a Bandit or CBF600, both of which will be slower and probably not as nice to ride.

Ive sold a car and 2 Ducatis on the STW classifides too.....

How much do you want for the Fazer? I'm really missing having a motorbike....

Posted 1 year ago #
deadlydarcy - Member

EDIT: Oops...that image was a bit too big...as you were everyone...

Posted 1 year ago #
Marge - Member

I ride a BMW 1150GSA with ABS & you wouldn't know it was ABS equipped...

I'm no crazy rider (old man :-)) but it gives me a sense of safety when I'm riding in the winter (I commute 160km per day all year round)

Was cold & slippy enough last week to get wheelslip in top gear on what visually appeared to be a dry road...

Posted 1 year ago #
cynic-al - Member

Posted 1 year ago #
juan - Member

peter a friend of mine is selling a srx 600 for cheap I might even deliver ti to your door

XXX

Posted 1 year ago #
PeterPoddy - Member

I want a motorbike. Not a BMX with a pneumatic drill in it!

Posted 1 year ago #
b r - Member

Just sold my Tiger 1050 ABS, very secure feeling.

I'd had it a couple of weeks when the ABS was 'needed' - a taxi u-turned in front of me in central London on a wet evening. I stopped with inches to spare from his door - he had a look of death on his face...

Wouldn't buy a bike without now, a bit like I wouldn't buy a non-ABS car (for everyday use).

Posted 1 year ago #
freddyg - Member

Keep the Fazer, they're really good bikes.

Invest £140ish in some advanced rider training with the IAM. Good observation, positioning and anticipation will almost negate the need for ABS.

Posted 1 year ago #
coffeeking - Member

Front-wheel lock-ups are teh fastest way to stop a bike.

10% slip is the best way to stop any tyred vehicle, which ABS approximates (miniature slips and releases) and I don't think many riders could emulate. More than 10% slip and you're losing stopping power.

Posted 1 year ago #
b r - Member

Good observation, positioning and anticipation will almost negate the need for ABS.

Agree, but after nearly 30 years of motorcycling (did the IAM when it was known as bronze/silver/gold) and racing I'm pretty good with all that - but there is that odd time, the almost...

Posted 1 year ago #
cynic-al - Member

I'm not sure about that Coffeeking!

Anyway when are we getting ABS for mtbs? Would be more useful than 2wd Shirley.

Posted 1 year ago #
Spongebob - Member

Stick to cars mate! I have a full bike license, but have read so many horror stories that I haven't bothered with a bike for years. When I was young and before I got my license, we were off these things more often than I care to remember. Quite a few broke limbs and too many died. Fortunately, I escaped with a few grazes and dented pride.

ABS won't stop "Messrs Thicko and Son" pulling across your path on the way to work! 25 years ago, I worked with a guy in a wheelchair who had experienced this.

So, if you can, stick to cars! The only circumstance where i'd buy a bike is to get through endless conjestion so as not to spend hours and hours commuting, but then is this even worth the risk? Probably not.

If only riding motorcycles wasn't so much bloody fun!

Posted 1 year ago #
coffeeking - Member

cynic-al - top left is braking force versus tyre slip as a percentage 0% slip = no lock, 100% = locked solid.

100% slip is nearly 1/3 lower braking force than 10%.

Posted 1 year ago #
Marge - Member

10% slip is the best way to stop any tyred vehicle, which ABS approximates (miniature slips and releases) and I don't think many riders could emulate. More than 10% slip and you're losing stopping power"

It's usually slightly less than 10% but the concept is absolutely correct.
ABS targets keeping the wheel slip just below the lock-up level hence the very best professional drivers can actually beat ABS by braking at a level between average ABS level & lock-up...

Posted 1 year ago #
freddyg - Member

Br - I did the Star Rider (bronze/silver/gold) thing back in the mid eighties too. To be honest, it's not a patch on the IAM.

I do 28k miles each year on the bike. Mainly commuting on fast A-roads and through 2x cities (Nottingham and Derby). I had a minor epiphany a couple of years ago when I arrived at the scene of a nasty bike accident before the services got there. Not nice.

I decided to invest in further training with the IAM. It changed my riding style significantly - some of the overtakes/filtering I was doing previously were just too risky. I still filter/overtake but am much better equipped to do so.

I'm now a smoother and, where circumstances allow, a quicker rider than I was previously.

Sign up; it's not expensive, you could learn something that may save your life, you meet some decent folk (and some weirdy beardies ) and they'll show you some really nice roads in your area.

Posted 1 year ago #
cynic-al - Member

Thanks Coffeeking - I am only trying to wind up TJ but he's not biting

Posted 1 year ago #
Spongebob - Member

Yes, smoother is the way to go! Same applies to driving anything. Less hard acceleration, less hard braking, more planning ahead. Simple really, but testosterone always gets the better of some. All winning motoracing drivers/riders drive/ride smooth. Ask Jackie Stewart.....

Posted 1 year ago #
Geronimo - Member

Probably not relevant to the original poster, but as I read somewhere, "if you ride at 100mph, practice hard braking from 100mph"

I'd have thought that ABS can only be a good thing, although observation and smoothness is still important.

Although I've no urge to do the car IAM, I am tempted to do the bike one this year.

Posted 1 year ago #
BigButSlimmerBloke - Member

Two fingers, two eyes and a brain - properly used works well enough.

Posted 1 year ago #
Spongebob - Member

Two fingers, two eyes and a brain - properly used works well enough.

Don't you also need arms and legs to ride a bike?

Posted 1 year ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

Al - thats 'cos is sad and tired Inventing stuff you claim I have said then repeating it endlessly is really rather sad.

For the record what I advocate is practising braking up to and beyond lockup to learn how to cope with lockup when it occurs in emergencies. Al seems to think it is impossible to control a locked front wheel on a motorcycle. I know different and all my friends who are good on a bike practice this.

Posted 1 year ago #
BigButSlimmerBloke - Member

Don't you also need arms and legs to ride a bike?

Laugh? I nearly did.

Posted 1 year ago #
PhilO - Member

A lot of regular bikers will claim that it's not worth having ABS because you should be able to brake well without it.

And when I am sure that I can out-perform ABS every time somebody does something unexpected, when it's dark, the roads are wet/greasy and I'm tired after a long day at work, then I might agree with them. In the meantime, I'm more than happy to have ABS standing by on my F650GS because I'm fallible and a bit of insurance is well worth having when personal safety is at issue...

Touch wood, I haven't needed it yet in the 17,000 miles the bike's done, but you only need to get it wrong once.

Posted 1 year ago #
cynic-al - Member

Al seems to think it is impossible to control a locked front wheel on a motorcycle.

Now it's you making up what I have said.

I said you said that the fastest way to slow a bike is to do a front wheel skid, not the above.

*usual barrage of smileys etc*

Posted 1 year ago #
anagallis_arvensis - Member

Funny how its just the BMW riders who inist on saying wht iat is they ride.

I myself do not have ABS on my F650 Funduro

Posted 1 year ago #
smogmonster - Member

You could always go for the new S1000RR, even though it looks like Patrick Moore, comes with ABS and Traction Control.

Posted 1 year ago #
freddyg - Member

anagallis_arvensis - Member

Funny how its just the BMW riders who inist on saying wht iat is they ride.

I hadn't noticed.... No ABS on my Blackbird, the linked brakes took a little getting used to though.

Posted 1 year ago #
Northwind - Member

There was a very good article in TWO magazine a couple of years ago, James Whitham on a Triumph with ABS, and a Triumph without. In the dry, he could stop it very slightly faster without ABS. In the wet, the ABS was better, and by a bigger margin. I don't care how much of a riding god you are, James Whitham is better than you are. And of course, that test itself was biased because they were perfectly planned stops.

The best obs in the world can't completely remove the risk that some day you have to stop unexpectedly. Last time I locked the front was because a policeman stepped into the road from behind his van and put his hand up, stop, as I was riding past it. I saved the slide, though I'll freely admit that if I had to do it 3 times in a row I'd probably have crashed at least once, but I still hit the stupid ****. There's no planning for total idiocy.

The last time I actually lost the front completely was 100% my fault, I was tired and distracted by a car driving unpredictably further away and failed to notice a closer hazard. Well, it was the other driver's fault I suppose but I should have seen it earlier and avoided it. This is the one that I always think of, because I do have generally good bike control and forward obs but sometimes, you can slip up, or get distracted, or just simply take your mind off the job for a moment and that's all it takes. No rider is perfect. At the end of a 1000 mile weekend or at the start of a 2 mile 7am commute, mistakes can happen.

So yeah, I'd personally have ABS like a shot, on the front at least. And I own neither a BMW or a Honda

Posted 1 year ago #
freddyg - Member

No one has said that ABS isn't worthwhile - as far as I can tell.

I don't have ABS on my Blackbird, but I most certainly wouldn't reject a bike if it had it. Far from it.

What has been suggested is that it may be an idea to get some further training (for a relatively small outlay) rather than dispose of a perfectly good bike because it doesn't have ABS.

And no, I am not a riding God, but a mere riding dog. Actually, more a riding badger.

Posted 1 year ago #
epicsteve - Member

I've got a CBF1000 with ABS and so far it's never kicked in. It's nice to know it's there though. The CBF could be had both with or without ABS but I specifically wanted one with it.

The bike magazines have proved that in dry conditions an expert rider can outperform ABS on a bike - it test conditions and, usually, only after a few tries. However in the wet or in panic braking situations it's a different story. I wouldn't class myself as an expert, although I'm fairly experienced and have done some racing etc. - and like almost every other road rider there will be situations where the ABS could stop me from having an accident.

Here's a pic of my bike:

I've got a few bikes without ABS as well (CBR600, XBR500, Pampera) but for future purposes it's definitely something I'd prefer the bike to have.

Posted 1 year ago #
epicsteve - Member

Oh, and from the previous posts it sounds like there are some real motorcycle riding gods on STW...

I'm not suggesting that advanced training isn't a good thing (done track and road based advanced training myself) but for anyone that rides in all-conditions and year round an effective ABS system can only be a good thing. Many of the same arguments where made by self-confessed driving gods when ABS started to come if for cars, but now most of us (including me) wouldn't consider buying a new car without it.

Posted 1 year ago #
hopefiendboy - Member

Cheers for the replies!!!

I have done the local Police BikeSafe course already, and try and keep my obs to prevent any forseeable possible hazards and safe distance etc.

Northwind makes a valid point that you cannot keep 100% focussed 100% of the time, and it is very easy to not risk assess all hazards all the time, and lets face it we all do that.

I guess I could do with some braking practice- esp in the wet at higher speeds. I often just test myself on quiet backroads when it is wet (clear behind me ) and take myself to point of wheel lock (max speed 30-40mph), but sometimes in a reflex situation with braking to avoid a hazard thinking and reaction time are not the very first thing that happens.

All being said, I think I will keep the current bike (I like it- great first bike), and will make a point of getting it on my next bike if that ever happens!! (Permission from the boss/money/etc etc)

Posted 1 year ago #
b r - Member

My Dad once told me a story of how many years ago (he was in the motor trade) and was trying to sell a car to a chap which had disc brakes.

"Oh no" says the guy, "don't want those, they are too good - I'll have people running into the back of me"...

Posted 1 year ago #
Trimix - Member

On my KTM you can turn off the ABS - I only turn it off when riding it off road. On the road it stays on.

Posted 1 year ago #
hopefiendboy - Member

like that CBF1000 tho........

Posted 1 year ago #

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