we’re looking at getting a people carrier and on visiting ford this morning and testing an s-max we were quite happy.

We want a petrol as we do tiny miles and have concerns about the seeming impending death of diesel, but a few things the dealer and his manager said seemed to be BS…

– diesel tax won’t go up
– ford won’t be affected if it does as they are ‘ethical’ etc etc (this sounded very company line stuff to me)
– they can’t get the 2.0l petrol we wanted for a year as it’s not in production
– they can easily get all the diesel variations

in the end we left after two hours and with two screaming kids. Not a great experience.

Was it all bollocks?

Try another Ford dealer and see what they say? Over the phone would be enough I expect.

(Pssssssst…Wanna buy a Maxi Life?)

I suppose it’s possible they can easily get all the diesel variations…

It means they don’t have a petrol one in stock.

– diesel tax won’t go up

No way they can know that.

– ford won’t be affected if it does as they are ‘ethical’ etc etc (this sounded very company line stuff to me)

If it does change, everyone will be affected.

– they can’t get the 2.0l petrol we wanted for a year as it’s not in production

“Thanks then, I’ll try somewhere else.”

– they can easily get all the diesel variations

“thanks for the info, but I don’t want a diesel”

Stocks of petrol engines probably are running low given everyone is shying away from diesels. Production probably hasn’t ramped up yet.

We want a petrol as we do tiny miles and have concerns about the seeming impending death of diesel

The first bit is true the second bit is bobbins.

The lesson to be learnt here is not to go car shopping with kids.

Demand for diesel has dropped off a cliff so they have a load they can’t shift? Pretending not to be able to get petrol then forces you into going for a diesel against your better judgement but solves their problem of otherwise unsellable stock?

Car dealers don’t have a bad reputation for nothing! I would try another one and see how you get on

They only offer the 2.0 petrol in the auto version otherwise it’s a 1.5 ecoboost

– diesel tax won’t go up
– ford won’t be affected if it does as they are ‘ethical’ etc etc (this sounded very company line stuff to me)

I suspect what they meant was that Ford cars are unlikely to be to have their tax bands changed based on new emissions data, because their emissions levels are legit. The only person who knows if VED in general is going to go up is the Chancellor.

And put the spec you want into Carwow to get quotes from dealers who will actually sell you the car you want.

bly are running low given everyone is shying away from diesels.

Care to prove that? I can vouch that’s it’s not true, for example I know two people that have just bought diesels.

given everyone is shying away from diesels.

Why would they?

VAG cheated in the USA to get the NOx emissions down to the much tighter requirement over there.

AFAIK their engines could meet the EU requirement without “cheating”.

As diesels offer much, much better mpg than petrol why would you shy away from them?

I saw something that suggested the cheating might not be cheating under EU rules. I can’t recall where.

bly are running low given everyone is shying away from diesels.
Care to prove that? I can vouch that’s it’s not true, for example I know two people that have just bought diesels.

Haha, yes me! I bought a petrol car in May after having driven (mostly) diesel for I guess knocking on 15+ years.

It wasn’t the baby killing fumes that put me off, more the DPF problems and that the emissions are getting ever tighter.

Not “everyone” though are you.

My diesel VAG is awesome. (Although it does whiff of child puke at the moment) it’s a lease, but when it goes back it’s getting replaced by… Another diesel VAG.

I’m not ‘everyone’ either.

Yep; I love driving my diesel Passat; it’s fast, powerful and frugal and takes two bikes with ease and four at a squeeze.

My diesel VAG is awesome. (Although it does whiff of child puke at the moment) it’s a lease, but when it goes back it’s getting replaced by… Another diesel VAG

I suspect it may be called a Zhejiang by then,

I suspect it may be called a Zhejiang by then,

I doubt it but anything is possible I suppose. Wouldn’t bother me so long as the product was the same. I have no particular brand loyalty to VAG, I just love this particular car.

“the impending death of diesel”
What’s that mean then?
Are they going to stop making diesel engines or just diesel & if they do either are they going to put petrol engines back in trucks?
Eventually there’s be neither petrol nor diesel, just ‘magic’ 😉

Ford being ethical means they got caught cheating tests in 1999 and now comply through loopholes like most of the other brands.

Evrning. In life anyone with a clear agenda is to be taken at face value.

Just because Ford arent on the same cheating level as VW doesnt mean a salesman will have the same values as the product that they are selling..

To me after the ‘it was only two software engineers’ I’ll never trust any vw product again.
‘They can easily get the diesels’. Yep over production based on previous sales performance. Shop around youll find petrols.
A few years ago VW salesman told me Ford would be bust within the week. I pointed out to him that was GM USA…

Re the impending death of diesels, what with the lobbying going on against them from an environmental point of view, and whatever fall out there is from vag, it felt distinctly like he was desperate to get us to take a diesel rather than the petrol we asked for

I had the S-Max Titanium 2.0 Diesel (165bhp version) between Oct 2011 and March 2014. Possibly the best car I have ever owned in terms of practicality. All the goodies with comfort and style. More than enough umph without ever getting flustered. Returned 44mpg in mixed traffic.

Lovely colour too – Midnight Sky

[url=https://flic.kr/p/yFGc2d]smax[/url] by parkpreboi, on Flickr
Used a Volvo V70 internal bike carrier (with modifications)
[url=https://flic.kr/p/zm6T7W]carrier[/url] by parkpreboi, on Flickr

You spent 2 hours in a car showroom?

The only shying away from diesels is being done by idiots who bought them for the three mile daily commute and ended up having the dpf as a consumable.
A few countries are looking to ban euro4 or lower from city centres. Surprisingly enough, this has no effect on new sales. As no one should be selling euro4 now.

I reckon the dealer has just got a shed load of diesels on order/in Stock and doesn’t know the first thing about emissions testing, so it’s squeaky bum time, he’s got to shift them all in case Ford get caught frigging their results too and he ends up with a million quids worth of stock he can’t shift.

You spent 2 hours in a car showroom?

Could be worse……..could have been Ikea 😉

Sales guy was trying to sell you a diesel as they either have those ‘in stock’, or just because they are much easier to source. They will sell 10 diesels for every petrol smax (possibly more), like almost every large car. Try getting a new petrol Passat. Absolutely nothing to do with ‘impending death of diesel’ – that’s horseshit. Another dealer will find you a petrol one.

The only shying away from diesels is being done by idiots who bought them for the three mile daily commute and ended up having the dpf as a consumable

But that’s the point, the average mileage is what, 11, 12k? And most of that will be commuter miles at what speed exactly? Diesel doesn’t make sense for that (kind of) mileage but people have bought them regardless. With the particulate thing getting tighter the regen problems I’d assume can only get worse. I have approx 17-18 mile commute of which almost half is in 40/30 zones, decided diesel wasn’t the right fuel. Yes I prefer how the diesels drove and miss the mpg however doubt I’ll end up spending the difference in capital cost of buying diesel in the first place.

I find the handwringing on the VAG thread about ‘higher emissions than I was lead to believe’ amusing, I doubt they actually gave it any thought other than reduced VED cost. Anybody seriously concerned about pollution would be finding alternative transport (than a personal car).

Oh, I wasn’t claiming to be everyone, just someone who has consciously changed from diesel recently (not swayed directly by emissions either).

Sorry metalheart diesels really are ****. Im amazed that a cyclist woukd chose one on the ‘it gives me an extra 10mpg’ basis.

So what are the alternative transports then? Those big diesel belching buses? Trains that belch diesel?

Trains or cars that run on nuclear 100,000yr after life liability electricity?

Or do you propose cycling on motorways?

You know what, cycling on motorway (hard shoulders) would be a damn sight safer than cycling on a lot of ‘A’ roads around my neck of the woods. But that’s a whooooole new thread topic… 😆

Those big diesel belching buses?

http://www.optare.com/news/2015/5/19/more-electric-optare-versas-for-york

@hora, sorry diesels are really what? A swear word, so you mean shit? Did you read the bit about I’ve gone petrol? Why would me being a cyclist suddenly make me some kind evangelist ‘against’ diesel? Cycling is a leisure pursuit for me. I’m not some eco-warrior bent on saving the world.

Alternative transport needs to be appropriate to the journey. We were talking about the short journeys (three miles you should be ****-ing walking). 1 person per car (queued for miles) is not the answer… What’s yours then?

Are you buying new or s/h? There are a very small percentage of s/h petrol S-Max’s on the market. I wouldn’t be surprised if you can’t get a new one for a while…Ford have been struggling with production, and people ordering anything unusual have had delays / orders cancelled. I wouldn’t be surprised if they concentrate on diesels for the next 6 months.

I had a look at the new Smax last week, which was enough to convince me to buy another old style one….the build quality looked awful on the one I saw (admittedly, it was a low spec in flat white). Quality wise, it felt like a big Fiesta, where as the old ones in a good spec are nice cars.

If you do low mileage, a petrol one sounds sensible, but the last generation had pretty bad economy (think c.24mpg :-(). I can’t see diesel tax changing much in the next few years….there are just too many of then on the roads for the government to do anything significant about them.

Having owned ours for four years, I’d hoped to treat myself to something a bit more upmarket, but looking at the alternatives makes you realise what a good design the S-Max is.

– diesel tax won’t go up
– ford won’t be affected if it does as they are ‘ethical’ etc etc (this sounded very company line stuff to me)

Apparently he knows who will be chancellor next year and he’s reading the board minutes of Ford Motor Co. He’s a well informed car salesman!

What has the spec or colour got to do with build quality?

I know the answer to this one: nothing.

I find it a little sad that even though it is now abundantly clear that diesels in the real world are responsible for the majority of NOx pollution in towns and therefore high numbers of premature deaths that several poster on this thread are adamant that diesels are great and that one is adamant his next car will be a diesel too.

Without even considering the very fine particles that go straight through the particle filter, into your lungs, straight into the blood stream and contain carcinogens.

I’ve only ever owned petrol cars (I had a diesel van though), but if told petrol engines were responsible for as many health issues as diesel my next car would be electric.

What a Hero!

Speaking for myself I currently chose the selfish extra money in my pocket option which will mostly find my children’s upbringing. I appreciate that’s a short term environmental view but I’m not going to apologise for it.

Good evening. Ah yes ‘not my fault/problem’.

You don’t have kids do you Hora?