So, I’ve had a Carbon Camber for a week or so and thought I’d write a mini review on my thoughts towards it. There’s a lot of talk both on forums and in magazines about how 29’er’s are the way forward and keeping in mind I’ve got a fairly expensive Niner on the way I thought I might try a FS to see if it would replace my Five. Also, this is more about riding a FS 29’er rather than a review of the actual bike but as all bikes ride differently its hard to separate the two.

Ridden at both Swinley and Bedgebury over the course of the weekend, Swinley was very wet, Bedgebury less so. Bike is totally standard with the exception of running the wheels tubeless, but still on the original Ground Control tyres.

Spec is typical Specialized, all capable stuff but nothing amazing and I’m not a fan of Avid brakes – however they haven’t gone wrong yet. I also don’t understand spec’ing a bolt through front hub on a normal QR fork. It’s got those funky DT skewers but I honestly can see the benefit if the fork isn’t bolt-thru. Shock is easy to set up for sag, you inflate to 300psi then press the valve until it stops releasing air. Job done.

First off – its fast. I’d say I’m as fast on this as I am on my Whippet race bike (arse in the air, head down and light), probably faster thinking about it. Its also comfy – I felt a lot less beat up after two laps of bedgebury on this than I did my whippet, which you would expect.

However, I certainly don’t think it’s as fun. I normally like wheelie’ing about, jumping and just general pissing about when I’m trail riding. Without question point to point this is faster but it’s also a wheels on the ground, fully committed type of bike rather than the ‘hit roots, launch roots, do a skid’ sort of stuff that I prefer. I also had some monumental crashes that I’d normally have got away with on the 26er. Not sure if this is down to SPD’s being too tight, tyres being rubbish (which they are) or that I’m perched up a long way compared to my 6’er but man alive did I have some big ones.

In summary, if you’re racing, doing long distances and the like then I think its definitely the way forward. If you’re messing around in the woods, racing round a trail centre like CYB then I’d stick with 26 inch wheels.

Just my opinion of course…

Don’t know why you feel perched higher, BB height on the Spesh and Orange are the same?? What type of crashes were they?

Big ones!! One was a failed double attempt which I know I could have ridden out of if I’d been on my other bike. The others were a combination of high-sides and general ‘how did that happen’ sort of crashes. I think a lot of it is down to the tyres and maybe that I was just going a lot quicker than I would be on a 26er but I don’t feel quite as ‘planted’. Maybe it’s something I’ll get used to

I also had some monumental crashes that I’d normally have got away with on the 26er

Nope. Perhaps the tyres as you said, but really can’t see an occasion that it would be the difference between 29 and 26. As has been said – you are no higher up if you think where your feet are.

Nice review! I think 29ers are a personal thing really.
I feel more comfortable on the 29er. Ive been down all the DH runs that I’ve done on the 26” bike(from the Alps to Scotland) and for me I’ve improved as a rider as a result. I’ve had no issues with aggresive riding or XC loops. Personally I wont be going back to 26”. (I’ll buy your 29er if you dont like it 😛 )

I rode a Trek Fuel EX9.8 & a Rumblefish Pro back to back at the NEC last week. Ok, so the test track wasnt very long, but it was a fairly reasonable little track, with some tight singletrack, few small berms & little rock section. (Its the NEC car park for christs sake…!!!)
First off the 9.8. Felt just like the old 130mm FS Ventana in my garage, that never gets ridden. Nothing really stood out. Given its £4k I expected a lot lot more.

Then the Rumblefish. Really blown away. My own bike is a Niner SIR9, and by comparison I expected the Rumblefish to feel a bit of a lump, bit heavy etc. I just couldnt believe how quick it was. But this was only a small sample, & on a fairly tame track. But for me, & the type of riding/terrain I enjoy, it was spot on.
If I had £3.5k I would be buying the Rumblefish.

First off – its fast. I’d say I’m as fast on this as I am on my Whippet race bike (arse in the air, head down and light), probably faster thinking about it. Its also comfy – I felt a lot less beat up after two laps of bedgebury on this than I did my whippet, which you would expect.

You just described the diffrence between a short travel XC hard tail and a reasonable full suss – none of what you wrote in this para is specific to a 29er. Just mentioning that so pelple aren’t mislead (not suggesting that was your intention btw).

Then the Rumblefish. Really blown away. My own bike is a Niner SIR9, and by comparison I expected the Rumblefish to feel a bit of a lump, bit heavy etc. I just couldnt believe how quick it was. But this was only a small sample, & on a fairly tame track. But for me, & the type of riding/terrain I enjoy, it was spot on.

And so did he.

Cheers for the review Flange.

I took two seperate day demos for me to fully decide on buying my full suss 29er , and another couple of months adjusting completely to the differences, but now wouldn’t go back if I had the choice.

The Camber 29er won’t ride like a 26er, but it will ‘hit roots, launch roots, do a skid’ etc as you desire given an adjustment in your technique to suit the new geometry, wheelbase, size of the wheels, lower BB etc.

Also not sure why you felt perched higher up, most full-suss 29ers have the opposite where you feel more inside the bike than perched on it. Maybe just a design difference with the Camber.

However, I certainly don’t think it’s as fun. I normally like wheelie’ing about, jumping and just general pissing about when I’m trail riding.

It’ll come… it’s a different way of riding but manualling, popping about and jumps feel quite natural on a 29er now, and I find 26ers quite nervous and unsettling for a while until I settle into them again. I tend to ‘override’ a 26er now which I guess is a result of my adaptation to 29ers.

I’m not great on table tops and drops normally, but I’ve actually improved since going 29er.

I find 29ers tend to be higher at the headset and slow to through into a turn (I have ridden a highly specced. carbon Scott Scale and a similar Specalized Epic)- you seem to have to wrestle them more than with a 26er to get them to turn and flow easily round the trails. I’m much happier with a lower, more nimble 26er

You seem to have to wrestle them more than with a 26er to get them to turn and flow easily round the trails.

Just a period of adjustment getting used to the 29er riding style, after that flow is certainly not a problem.

agree with that. In short, 29ers are faster but less fun.

In short, 29ers are faster but less fun

Thats a bit of a sweeping statement on wheel size.

There have been one or two people not being very complimentary about cambers on here recently (think it was 26ers but didn’t read that carefuly)

Stem looks long for a 29er. A shorter one would quicken steering and make lofting easier. Generally short stem, W-I-D-E bars are 29er good

Be honest, did you think it would be “faster but less fun” before you rode it?

I’m not accusing you of anything, but it is incredibly hard to remove observer bias from these tests. Anybody who has experienced or observed the placebo effect, for example (where a subject will feel significant reductions in very real symptoms from taking a pill that can have no effect) will know just how easy it is to be fooled by your own subconscious preconceptions.

I suspect that, if you are told by somebody you trust that a bike will ride a certain way then that’s how it will feel when you ride it. I can even believe that, if you are told that a bike is faster you will be faster on that bike (at least for a while). But, since I’ve not thought of a way to do a proper blind test of a bike, I’m not in a position to prove any of this.

Thanks for the review though, it was an interesting read.

Cheers,

Andy

I rode the carbon epic 29er and the carbon Trek superfly at the NEC last weekend. I have a rigid single speed 29er and am looking for something more geared/racy/normal. To say that the superfly was fast is an understatement. But the epic just seemed to smooth everything away – including the (modest) rock garden. I was impressed. However I felt that the FS seemed to take away some of the fun. So now I’ll be looking for a carbon HT 29er.

And if you don’t think wheel size makes a difference, you are welcome to try my 20er FS at Swinley. 😆 Yes 20.

Serves you right for buying a dumb ass steep head angled, long chainstay boring machine when so many better trail 29er machines are out there and lol you’ve bought a Niner as well, another fail me thinks. Sorry.

Serves you right for buying a dumb ass steep head angled, long chainstay boring machine when so many better trail 29er machines are out there and lol you’ve bought a Niner as well, another fail me thinks. Sorry.

Harsh but possibly true 😯

OP…how do you know how fast the bike is?

I’d be surprised if it’s the tyres. I think they’re great on my Solaris. Give it a bit more time, but don’t write off a wheel size after comparing chalk and cheese. Your Niner will be a much better comparison to the Wippet. I must admit, I don’t tend to enjoy my full suss as much as my hardtail, despite it being quicker in some circumstances.

I too rate the GC’s highly, very grippy and predictable in the slide / breakaway of traction.

yes, it was a sweeping statement, hence ‘in short’.
ridden/test quite a few bikes and thats my overall opinion (not everyone’s, and not definitive) 🙂

My Yelli Screamy is easier to manual and flick the back out on that a lot of 26” bikes ive ridden. I think you just need to find the right bike for your application. I can 180 on flat as easily on a 26” as a 29” HT.

wobbem – Member
Serves you right for buying a dumb ass steep head angled, long chainstay boring machine when so many better trail 29er machines are out there and lol you’ve bought a Niner as well, another fail me thinks. Sorry

What do you propose instead ?

I’ve never really understood all the psuedo science behind one bike “being faster” than another? I’ve yet to see proper comparison data for two similar but differently sized wheeled bikes?

For example lets split things down a bit:

1) drive efficiency: The percentage of crank power applied to the ground – (can’t see any massive difference for either wheel size here)
2) drive effectiveness: How well the drive system allows a person to “leverage” their muscle power. Not the same as 1), but equally important. (again, not difference i can see other than bigger rolling radius needing numerically lower gearing)
3) Rolling resistance, static: tyre periferal speed is the same for a given ground speeed (no difference),
4) Rolling resistance, Dynamic: Higher rotational inertia of larger wheel hurst acceleration, but helps keep momentum, larger diameter results in less vertical heave over rough terrain (could be a small effect, but depends upon terrain, would need a proper instrumented “pull test” over a controlled set of surfaces to find out the real difference, but surely we are talking about less than 1% between wheel sizes
5) overall weight: Lighter = faster. 26 bikes can be made smaller, so ultimately they will be lighter.
6) Rider confidence: Surely the biggest effect, but so interrelated with frame and suspension geometry as to be very difficult to quantify. You can’t physically make a 29’er with the exact geo of a 26’er, so just about imposible seperate these effects.

In summary, the “human” causal effects outweigh the actual pysical ones imo when it comes to 26’er vs 29’er. A bit like trying to answer “is a convertable car better than an estate car”, well it depends on what you want to do with it 😉

Serves you right for buying a dumb ass steep head angled, long chainstay boring machine when so many better trail 29er machines are out there and lol you’ve bought a Niner as well, another fail me thinks. Sorry.

Ahhh, a true keyboard warrior, bless. What would you suggest as an alternative?

Al – I ride Swinley a lot and always use my Garmin so I can see how fast I’m riding each section and compare this to my Whippet. I’m definitely faster by 6 minutes despite having a bit of a lay down a couple of times. Conditions were actually not as good as my quicker laps on the 26er so it’s actually biased towards the whippet.

This

I too rate the GC’s highly

…bothers me the most – not sure if its OE GC’s or if they’re all the same, but I found them less than consistent. Either I’ve suddenly lost the ability to go round corners or something is adrift…

I’ll stick with it as for what I’ve bought it for its ideal – long rides where I need to cover a fair bit of distance at a decent pace. But I was hoping it would replace the Five, however the filing cabinet will be staying put for now…

Going back to my original point, 100 miles in I still stand by the notion that 29’ers are faster but not necessarily more fun. Hopefully a bit more time on it will help and my riding style will adapt.

Speed comparisons between bikes can easily be made now using new technology such Strava / Garmin or equivalent. Whether or not the differences are solely down to wheel size is another matter though 😉

I’ve never really understood all the psuedo science behind one bike “being faster” than another? I’ve yet to see proper comparison data for two similar but differently sized wheeled bikes?

I’ve got a Five and Gyro…

Faster and funner are 2 different things IMO.
My fatty bike is my funniest bike and probably the slowest.
If I was so concerned about speed I’d just drive to my destination.

Is it time for that magnificent suly blog post again?

Yes please!

ruffrider – Member
From the Surly Blog on their site, enjoy…..

Some answers to just about any bike forum post I’ve ever read
Thursday, June 16, 2011

posted by Skip Bernet

If you think your bike looks good, it does.

If you like the way your bike rides, it’s an awesome bike.

You don’t need to spend a million dollars to have a great bike, but if you do spend a million dollars and know what you want you’ll probably also have a great bike.

Yes, you can tour on your bike – whatever it is.

Yes, you can race on your bike – whatever it is.

Yes, you can commute on your bike – whatever it is.

26” wheels or 29” or 650b or 700c or 24” or 20” or whatever – yes, that wheel size is rad and you’ll probably get where you’re going.

Disc brakes, cantis, v-brakes, and road calipers all do a great job of stopping a bike when they’re working and adjusted.

No paint job makes everyone happy.

Yes, you can put a rack on that. Get some p-clamps if there are no mounts.

Steel is a great material for making bike frames – so is aluminum, carbon fiber, and titanium.

You can have your saddle at whatever angle makes you happy.

Your handlebars can be lower than your saddle, even with your saddle, or higher than your saddle. Whichever way you like it is right.

Being shuttled up a downhill run does not make you a weak person, nor does choosing not to fly off of a 10 foot drop.

Bike frames made overseas can be super cool. Bike frames made in the USA can be super cool.

Hey, tattooed and pierced long shorts wearin flat brim hat red bull drinkin white Oakley sportin rad person on your full suspension big hit bike – nice work out there.

Hey, little round glasses pocket protector collared shirt skid lid rear view mirror sandal wearing schwalbe marathon running pletscher two-leg kickstand tourist – good job.

Hey, shaved leg skinny as hell super duper tan line hear rate monitor checking power tap train in the basement all winter super loud lycra kit million dollar wheels racer – keep it up.

The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

The following short answers are good answers, but not the only ones for the question asked – 29”, Brooks, lugged, disc brake, steel, Campagnolo, helmet, custom, Rohloff, NJS, carbon, 31.8, clipless, porteur.

No bike does everything perfectly. In fact, no bike does anything until someone gets on it to ride.

Sometimes, recumbent bikes are ok.

Your bikeshop is not trying to screw you. They’re trying to stay open.

Buying things off of the internet is great, except when it sucks.

Some people know more about bikes than you do. Other people know less.

Maybe the person you waved at while you were out riding didn’t see you wave at them.

It sucks to be harassed by assholes in cars while you’re on a bike. It also sucks to drive behind assholes on bikes.

Did you build that yourself? Awesome. Did you buy that? Cool.

Wheelies are the best trick ever invented. That’s just a fact.

Which is better, riding long miles, or hanging out under a bridge doing tricks? Yes.

Yes, you can break your collar bone riding a bike like that.

Stopping at stop signs is probably a good idea.

Driving with your bikes on top of your car to get to a dirt trail isn’t ideal, but for most people it’s necessary.

If your bike has couplers, or if you have a spendy bike case, or if you pay a shop to pack your bike, or if you have a folding bike, shipping a bike is still a pain in the ass for everyone involved.

That dent in your frame is probably ok, but maybe it’s not. You should get it looked at.

Touch up paint always looks like shit. Often it looks worse than the scratch.

A pristine bike free of dirt, scratches, and wear marks makes me sort of sad.

A bike that’s been chained to the same tree for three years caked with rust and missing parts makes me sad too.

Bikes purchased at Wal-mart, Target, Costco, or K-mart are generally not the best bang for your buck.

Toe overlap is not the end of the world, unless you crash and die – then it is.

Sometimes parts break. Sometimes you crash. Sometimes it’s your fault.

Yes, you can buy a bike without riding it first. It would be nice to ride it first, but it’s not a deal breaker not to.

Ownership of a truing stand does not a wheel builder make.

32 spokes, 48 spokes, 24 spokes, three spokes? Sure.

Single speed bikes are rad. Bikes with derailleurs and cassettes are sexy. Belt drive internal gear bikes work great too.

Columbus, TruTemper, Reynolds, Ishiwata, or no brand? I’d ride it.

Tubeless tires are pretty cool. So are tubes.

The moral of RAGBRAI is that families and drunken boobs can have fun on the same route, just maybe at different times of day.

Riding by yourself kicks ass. You might also try riding with a group.

Really fast people are frustrating, but they make you faster. When you get faster, you might frustrate someone else.

Stopping can be as much fun as riding.

Lots of people worked their asses off to build whatever you’re riding on. You should thank them.

Genius!

However, I certainly don’t think it’s as fun. I normally like wheelie’ing about, jumping and just general pissing about when I’m trail riding. Without question point to point this is faster but it’s also a wheels on the ground, fully committed type of bike rather than the ‘hit roots, launch roots, do a skid’ sort of stuff that I prefer.

This might not be anything to do with being a 29er.
My experience of Specialized XCish bikes is the same as this regardless of wheel size.

That ^^^ Surly blog is ace.. 😀 should be a sticky…

Jesus, the OP is just giving his OPINION. Totally fair enough, people can either take it on board or not but if people are going to form a firm view based on one review they’re idiots. This is what forums are for…. 🙄

Agree. Credit to ruffrider for bringing it to this forum in another thread.

Fun is more to do with the trail than the bike in my opinion.

Fun is more to do with the trail than the bike in my opinion.

Whilst I can see what you’re getting at – Swinley is fun on my whippet, not so much on my 29er.

I spent a weekend on a 140mm travel Nicolai AC 29er and I enjoyed it so much I ordered myself a frame. When built it will look exactly like this ……

68deg HA with the option of running an angleset, 140mm Fox 34’s, Float CTD shock, Hammerschmidt cranks and Flow rims.

I took the demo bike on the same trails that I ride my Nicolai Helius FR and it felt just as capable and just as much fun. It was easy to hop, flick and jump and certainly strong enough to handle fast rocky descents and mini DH tracks. The AC will not be a replacement for the FR but I have a funny feeling that the FR is going to be sitting in my garage gathering dust. I just wish my frame would hurry up and get here……come on Nicolai 🙂