Happy winter solstice!

Seems a far more valid and tenable event than the supposed birth of a baby in a hay stack.

Happy winter solstice 🙂

Hurrah. It’s the start of summer ?

Certainly feels like winter round here for once.

Seems a far more valid and tenable event than the supposed birth of a baby in a hay stack.

It’s fine that you’re not into Christmas and what it means to Christians, but why the need to make a sarcastic comment?

That’s the one thing I still don’t get around here: the need to make fun of religious celebrations. By all means, don’t believe. By all means, offer your critique of religion in the course of a rational discussion. But otherwise, why not let people who might actually believe in the Incarnation (or Resurrection, or whatever) enjoy the holiday for what it means to them without having to make a snide remark about it?

I think I’ll go look up some Shinto or Hindu festival to comment on, just because they might be celebrating something right about now, and because I am not a Shinto or Hindu, I feel the overwhelming need to deride the fact that they do.

Sensible.

why not let people who might actually believe in the Incarnation (or Resurrection, or whatever) enjoy the holiday for what it means to them without having to make a snide remark about it?

Why not leave us alone and stop telling us what it means to you?

It is because they [ our armed forces abroad] face danger that we have peace. And that is what we mark today as we celebrate the birth of God’s only son, Jesus Christ – the Prince of Peace,”….As a Christian country, we must remember what his birth represents: peace, mercy, goodwill and, above all, hope.

“I believe that we should also reflect on the fact that it is because of these important religious roots and Christian values that Britain has been such a successful home to people of all faiths and none.”

TBH i find that as irksome as you do his.

FWIW i celebrate the solstice and was up at the stone circle , for sunrise, as usual paying my respects to life and its beauty. I do this every single year and it has deep meaning to me to celebrate another year – hell i even say a “prayer” to whatever may be listening. Did you know this ? no because until now i had not bothered to mention it to you as i leave you alone with your beliefs as I do mine in private without preaching

Happy christmas 😀

I was hoping for Rush day.

Seems a far more valid and tenable event…

Not if you’ve seen the people who go to Stonehenge for Winter Solstice….

shit i was spotted 😳

SaxonRider

That’s the one thing I still don’t get around here: the need to make fun of religious celebrations. By all means, don’t believe. By all means, offer your critique of religion in the course of a rational discussion. But otherwise, why not let people who might actually believe in the Incarnation (or Resurrection, or whatever) enjoy the holiday for what it means to them without having to make a snide remark about it?

Curious to know Saxonrider…..If people expressed their profound belief in fairies would you deride them for it? If they expressed their profound belief that they could levitate and teleport at will would you deride them for it?

profound belief in fairies

They do exist.

How else do you explain my dirty socks and boxers magically being cleaned and reappearing in my drawer?

Shinto or Hindu festival

Why? did they hijack a different religious festival and claim it as their own in order to make non believers easier to convert?

If they did I’ll come with you.

FWIW i celebrate the solstice and was up at the stone circle , for sunrise, as usual paying my respects to life and its beauty. I do this every single year

I bet you really don’t.

I heard a theologian who once said that believers and atheists had more in common with one another than they had with agnostics/sceptics, insofar as they are looking for certitude.
This is especially the case when it comes to proselytizing one’s faith in God or one’s faith that God does not exist.
Either way, there is a very human need for certitude, and I wonder where that need comes from.

This is especially the case when it comes to proselytizing one’s faith in God or one’s faith that God does not exist.

That’s nonsense.

There is no faith required to not believe in fantasy characters. It’s a very long list and would be exhausting.

Not for me as some shitbags burgled our house on the 21st. If one of you pagan types could please wave some dried twigs through some campfire smoke and murmur some kind of spell to give the perps the pox or somesuch it would be much appreciated!

Did you know this ? no because until now i had not bothered to mention it to you as i leave you alone with your beliefs as I do mine in private without preaching

I don’t disagree in the least, Junkyard. The only time I have even engaged in questions of faith on here is in response to arguments and discussions on the forum that directly touch on matters that I might know something about. Unless you count my hope that you all have a nice Christmas holiday as preaching.

Indeed, except for the fact that you might guess I am a person of faith according to what I have said in past threads, I think I have been fairly neutral on the issue.

Does someone else preach on here? If they do, I haven’t noticed.

Why? did they hijack a different religious festival and claim it as their own in order to make non believers easier to convert?

Well done, you. Take a caricature of history that someone else told you, and assert it as some sort of axiom. Have you actually done any research on the origins of Christmas as celebrated on the 25th of December? Do you understand the late antique origins of the calendar such as we know it today, and how the solar and lunar cycles were marked across the Mediterranean world? No? I thought not.

Curious to know Saxonrider…..If people expressed their profound belief in fairies would you deride them for it? If they expressed their profound belief that they could levitate and teleport at will would you deride them for it?

No. Not in the least. To each their own. Hell, I would even be interested in knowing how they came by their beliefs, and would invite them to tell me without then accusing them of ‘preaching’.

I bet you really don’t.

I bet I really do- what do you want bet anything at all is fine with me [ not your soul though as I have no need for it ]
Name your price and I will accept.

There is no faith required to not believe in fantasy characters.

I agree. But the Christian claim is different from the “flying spaghetti monster” claim. The Christian claim as I understand it is that there was a man called Jesus from Nazareth who lived, was crucified (something the historical record attests to with Josephus), and then resurrected (something the gospels affirm, but which is of course open to doubt unless you were there).

And more generally, to deny theism requires faith, as the empirical evidence we have does not answer the question of how something came from nothing (the creation of the universe).

Stephen Hawking wrote that all was needed for the creation of the universe was gravity – but it still begs the child-like question, where did gravity come from?

For the record, I’m not sure of anything, but atheists who claim the universe could have created itself are making as outlandish an assertion as the early Christians who said that God became a man in the form of Jesus.

Can i just say i have a lot of time for the way saxon is on the religious threads. Far more forgiving than needed and I do like the way they make their points on the threads

We do occasionally break out into serious and interesting discussion. This time I think I let the side down on the front

Happy christmas, forgive me and enjoy it for whatever reasons you see fit

Peace out

Happy christmas, forgive me and enjoy it for whatever reasons you see fit

Peace out

Indeed.

8)

It was 2 days ago.

I heard on the radio that parts of the UK recorded the same 17 degrees for both the summer and the winter solstice this year. I find that mental!

Stephen Hawking wrote that all was needed for the creation of the universe was gravity – but it still begs the child-like question, where did gravity come from?

The answer isn’t a magic man in the sky, as this would of course beg the child-like question of where did the magic man in the sky come from?

No winter lasts forever;
no Spring misses its turn.

Hal Borland

Each to their own.

It pays to not interfere in other’s beliefs…especially as I’m an atheist married to a Roman Catholic.

Although…

where did gravity come from?

…I think that can probably be explained with science.

Do not try and bend the spoon. That’s impossible. Instead… only try to realize the truth that there is no spoon.

Then you’ll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.

Take a caricature of history that someone else told you, and assert it as some sort of axiom

Explain to me how you’ve not just described religion.

Someones else told you a story based on no logic and no proof. And you believe it.

Someones else told you a story based on no logic and no proof. And you believe it.

People have been saying Christianity is foolishness for getting on for two thousand years. I’m not sure what that proves but it’s an interesting data point.

You people.

Blood sacrifice. And fire.

That’s the true meaning of a midwinter festival.

For the old Gods.

And yes, Soltice was the 21st… Celebrating the wrong day, that’s gonna rile them! They’ll probably send floods or some sort….

Yes but my point is his argument is I’m regurgitating something I’ve read or been told.

Which is a hilarious comment from a christian. Or any other faith.

Yes but my point is his argument is I’m regurgitating something I’ve read or been told.

Which is a hilarious comment from a christian. Or any other faith.

Is it national strawman argument day again?

Solstice was on 22nd this year metalheart (at 4.49 GMT if you want to be specific).

Is it national strawman argument day again?

No straw argument from me he called me quiet correctly on not knowing what I’m talking about but simultaneously highlighted the whole flaw in religion.

Someone told him about it and he believes it.

The history is irrelevant as it all circles around the complete lack of any evidence or proof.

Its interesting though I’d quite happily talk to Mr Saxon about it in person but its frankly a bit boring typing it out on a forum.

The answer isn’t a magic man in the sky, as this would of course beg the child-like question of where did the magic man in the sky come from?

God is self-created. He is independent of the universe, and its creator. So God is outside of space-time, whereas the universe and everything in it, is not (although black holes could be the exception to this).

That’s how adherents of the Abrahamic religions understand it, anyhow.

where did gravity come from?
…I think that can probably be explained with science.

Not so far. That could change of course. But the question remains: where did the conditions for the creation of the universe come from? The simplest answer is that they were created by a self-created God.

God is self-created. He is independent of the universe, and its creator. So God is outside of space-time, whereas the universe and everything in it, is not (although black holes could be the exception to this).

😆 that was from an episode of star trek, not bronze age goat botherers.

And more generally, to deny theism requires faith, as the empirical evidence we have does not answer the question of how something came from nothing (the creation of the universe).

Nonsense.

God is self-created. He is independent of the universe, and its creator. So God is outside of space-time, whereas the universe and everything in it, is not (although black holes could be the exception to this).

That’s an acceptable answer is it?

I prefer “we don’t know”.

Solstice you say?