900 lumen lights

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  • 900 lumen lights
  • Premier Icon mboy
    Subscriber

    Just a P7 torch, 2 18650 batteries, a charger and a bar mount in a box right?

    I've got a similar MTE P7 torch and highly rate it. For the £50 they're selling that for on ebay, it's not a bad price all considered. The parts seperately from dealextreme would probably cost more than £40 and then you'd have to wait about 3 weeks for them to arrive from Hong Kong.

    Premier Icon nickjb
    Subscriber

    Looks like the same one you can get from deal extreme. Lots of threads on that, mostly positive. It's cheaper from DE, too.

    jon1973
    Member

    At 900 lumens, would that be as effective as the Exposure MaXx D for example? Or is something like that worth the extra?

    dmetcalfe
    Member

    +1 for DE Lights

    robdeanhove
    Member

    The DX lights simply can't compare to the MaXx-D, which is in a different, better, class all together. There's several of both in my ride group, and all but a couple are MaXx-D riders now. Definitely worth the extra if you can find the cash. It's transformed my night riding.

    Is anyone who is recommending the DX light suggesting it's actually better, or just confirming it's cheaper? Most who rate them are switching from old, very low powered systems, so they appear great in comparison, however not so much in comparison to the MaXx-D. There's definitely a lot of unhappy faces in the group when the DX lights guys start changing batteries every 30mins at 11pm in the middle of winter too!

    Don't take my word for it: Turn up to a night endurance race that runs through the nigh and have a look at what 95% of the guys at the front who want/need to go flat out through the night have fitted to the bars 😉

    jon1973
    Member

    Has anyone got any of THESE, or know anyone who has them?. They look pretty good at £50

    spokebloke
    Member

    start changing batteries every 30mins

    Not sure what's going on there. Mine lasts 3 hours come rain, shine or minus 10. The batteries are li-on – shouldn't be much of an issue.

    My advice is try a DX or similar light. If you can see what you want to see then job done. If you're struggling, spend another £50 and blow the MaxX-D blokes into the hedges.
    If you need more than 1800 lumens (allegedly), it's probably best if you stay inside for the winter.

    dmetcalfe
    Member

    i own a set of lupine lights and a set of DX lights, both will easily last a 3 hour night ride on a single battery and there is very little difference, not any difference that warrants the £200 difference. If i had seen them before shelling out for the lupine ones i would deffinately have been happy with them.

    robdeanhove
    Member

    It won't last 3hrs at a rated 900lumens without a LOT of batteries, the P7 LED chomps a ferrocious 18W to produce that, so whilst the LED may be able to produce 900 lumens, in the highest bin, when cool at full power, with two cells and 3hrs of burn time (i.e. less bright LED), the effective light will be half that.

    I'd much rather one MaXx-D, that's been designed as a bike light, than two torches strapped to my bars based on the side by side testing I've seen out on the trail and in wide flat spaces looking to see distinctive features.

    Two of those lights will not be the same, by a LONG way, as the 1800 lumens quoted by the new Exposure six-pack for example.

    As troutie (and anyone else who makes their own lights) will no doubt confirm, it's not just the rated maximum lumens of the LED you choose to put in your light, but the development of an effective lens for the intended application (different for bars and helmet) that makes the light truly good for riding at night.

    Obi_Twa
    Member

    Having used the light above and a MaxxD the MaxxD totally obliterates the DE light. Think a lot has to do with the lens and reflector.

    bawbag
    Member

    I just bought a P7 from DealExtreme, seems well made but I haven't had it out for a proper test yet. Can't imagine that a light costing four times the 70gbp of the P7 will give four times the performance.

    It has certainly been designed as a bike light, robdeanhove maybe you're thinking of some other product. This is the one I bought.

    Ewan
    Member

    Rubbish. I've got a DX bike light and the torch mentioned above, I ride with lots of people with exposure lights, and both are about the same brightness on full. I think there might be quite a bit of justification of the amount of money some people may have spent going on here….

    Don't get the torch tho, just get this – 3 hours at full power. Lots of people I ride with have them and have had no problems. Delivery seems to take about 10 days at the moment.

    http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.25149

    Ewan
    Member

    It won't last 3hrs at a rated 900lumens without a LOT of batteries, the P7 LED chomps a ferrocious 18W to produce that, so whilst the LED may be able to produce 900 lumens, in the highest bin, when cool at full power, with two cells and 3hrs of burn time (i.e. less bright LED), the effective light will be half that.

    That's not correct. Read the spec (http://www.seoulsemicon.com/en/product/prd/zpowerLEDp7.asp). Max power is 12w. The batteries in a DX bike light are 4 x 2800maH at 3.2v anyway. My one certainly lasts 3 hours on high.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Subscriber

    I'm with Ewan – though I got this version of effectively the same light, delivery in 24 hours, based in Harrogate in case of any problems – none so far:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/SSC-P7-LUMENS-CYCLE-POWERFUL/dp/B003F0627M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=sports&qid=1273174256&sr=1-1

    Not had a chance to try it in proper darkness yet, but in the gloam at dusk it is a much brighter clearer light than my old Lumis – yes, I upgraded from a 6 year old set of halogen technology, but for the night riding I do on local non-techy trails, it is brighter, a third/quarter of the weight and half/third the price of the big "names"

    I really wish the mags would test a set of these lights against the big brand lights and give us a proper comparison, £ for £.

    dmjb4
    Member

    There's a bit of confusion going on here. DE sell a 900 lumen torch and also a 900 lumen specific bike light. The actual LED is the same on both, just packaged differently.

    The link by jon1973 is someone selling the DE torch plus a charger and a pack of batteries for a bit of a mark up over what DE charge.

    The bike light has 4 batteries wired up into a pack, so it runs for 3-4h. The torch only takes one battery and runs for about an hour, at which point you need to change batteries.

    Both the torch and bike light offer a comparable output to a 4 LED Hope, Exposure etc at a fraction of the price. .

    Premier Icon grtdkad
    Subscriber

    I really wish the mags would test a set of these lights

    …now there's an idea, who could arrange that then?

    Premier Icon takisawa2
    Subscriber

    The DX is good for what it is…a £50 outlay to get some decent light output for night rides. If your into all-night enduro stuff you are definetley better off with a purpose designed light, as little faff as is involved with DX torches, lets be honest, it is still a compromise.

    This much lauded MaxD jobbie, what happens when the battery does eventually run down…presumably you follow someone with a P7 torch with a fresh battery right… 😉

    My DX's last 1hr 10mins on full. Switching high-med gets well over 2 hours. Plenty good enough for me, I'm usually knackered by then anyway…!!!

    anyone used the mickey mouse lights yet?

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    I've used a MaxxD, it's ever so slightly better than one of my DX torches. The burn times are pretty comparable (I have a 4-cell pack, which I suspect is what the MaxxD has too), the MaxxD has a better beam pattern but the DX is still good. I doubt either one makes 900 lumens, the P7 torch and light certainly doesn't, the MaxxD doesn't seem much brighter but that's a hard thing to judge. Burn time is very close, the MaxxD seems to keep full power for longer but drops off faster, the P7 does drop power after about 3 hours but keeps providing a decent amount of light for longer. Oh, lastly the MaxxD does have better modes, the low power on my torches is rubbish.

    The DX does have other advantages. Anything with removable cells is obviously ahead, because battery failure kills lights, and integral cells restricts your options on longer rides. Want to do a winter 24 hour race? You either change batteries or lights, or you're stuck on low power. And lights can get damaged or lost of course. Oh, and my torch/battery pack combo is a fair bit lighter if that bothers you, and can be used as a head light which you wouldn't want to do with the MaxxD.

    But then there's the price, someone with 2 Magicshines or 2 torches with a battery pack is going to be happier than someone who's paid 2 and a half times as much for less power and less flexibility IMO.

    spokebloke
    Member

    it's not just the rated maximum lumens of the LED you choose to put in your light, but the development of an effective lens for the intended application (different for bars and helmet) that makes the light truly good for riding at night.

    Nope,
    I'd say riding ability comes into it too. If you need daylight, and 900 lumens isn't enough I suggest you wait until daylight and MTFU.

    robdeanhove
    Member

    spokebloke, you miss the point:

    1) The DX lights do not put out anywhere near 900 lumens

    2) The DX led has a generic reflector (less efficient) applied for all purposes, torch, bar light, head torch etc. The guys at Exposure spend a long time and many many prototypes optimising the lens type, combination and orientation optimising them for each light to make the best bike light.

    3) Check who you're lecturing about riding ability and telling to MTFU; I just won Set2Rise 12hr solo and, after the course slowed after it had rained, my lap times stayed pretty damn constant from lap 3, when it was light, through the night laps, all the way through sunrise to lap 15 at the finish 😛

    toons
    Member

    you can get the same torch, batteries & charger from deal extreme for £28 (depending on the dollar).

    neninja
    Member

    I'm tempted to give one of the 1300 lumen Brightstar hid's a go or get a pair of the 550 lumen ones. They're only just over £100 – anyone used one?

    http://www.pcbuyit.co.uk/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=382&osCsid=822f7588d72c2ef6449b5059e3a33d15

    uplink
    Member

    If you're going to get the DX bike light
    You may as well get the one with the UK adapter

    http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.30864

    spokebloke
    Member

    Robdean, I cite conflict of interest. Did you pay full price for yours?

    I think you really are missing the point. I too doubt that the DX light puts out 900 lumens, but the amount of light it does put out is more than adequate for 90% of riders. I didn't realise I was talking to the elite 10%……and I bet you think your dad is bigger than my dad too.
    For a lot of non-sponsored riders the fact that you could buy 6 DX lights for the price of one Maxx D is highly relevant and I'm pretty sure that's what the OP meant.

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    Mr Spoke chose just about the worst person possible to tell it was about just riding ability to ride fast at night. 😆 Rob is more than a little bit good at that!

    Set2rise was a weird experience for me though. My Light in Motion Ultra Arc set on the bars with Joystick on the lid used to feel impressively bright but looks positively puny now! Plenty enough for the job.

    uplink
    Member

    @robdeanhove

    Do you have any connection with Exposure Lights?
    I see you wrote a review for the MaxxD on their website

    Luminous
    Member

    A few years ago, a guy in the office wanted to keep on commuting through the winter. This precipitated a need for a light.

    So, he surfed and eventually discovered the DX torch.

    He looked into it and bought one, some cells and the appropriate charger.

    He used the torch through that winter. Another winter came but by the end of that second winter the light had packed-up.
    Also, the beam from the torch was a little too narrow for off-road riding, in his opinion.
    However, as it has failed, the torch now lives in one of his desk draws, proabably never to be seen again.

    I believe it was vibration that finally claimed his torch.

    The P7 LED is bright. I don't think its real-world 900 lumens, probably better to think around 600 lumens.

    All LED manufs are sales driven and so will quote best figures under favourable, or agreed/standardized test conditions.

    The build quality of the magicshine and the DX torches isn't in the same league as some of the other the lights we all know, but cost more, imo.
    But as we also know, this largely explains the pirce difference.

    Mostly, you can not add additional features and/or do additional work on a component, without adding cost.
    Hence DX lights (like a lot of stuff) being made in the far-east, where additional work and its cost, can be done to a limited extent, while the end product remains comparatively cheap.

    To answer the question raised by a few here regarding mag reviews. There has been a review of the magicshine light, bike specific version.
    Think it was in WMB, around Xmas time 09, just before or just after, I think.
    Hunt around for it and you may find it.
    From memory…, I think the testers quite liked it, Especially at the price.
    But I don't recall it winning anything, award wise.
    (I think the Lupine Tesla won that test, which uses the same LED)

    Furthermore, reliability seems to have been a hit-n-miss affair for the magicshine, with amongst others, the folk on here reporting failures of one sort or another.

    But before magicshine lovers here start jumping up-n-down, there are also those who seem to be running their magicshine without issue.

    I suppose that at £50, you might half be expecting poor durabiity, and so when/if your light does fail, it may not be such a difficult thing to accept. I've certainly read remarks like this, on here, from those who have purchased a magicshine.

    I've not seen a MaxxD, but I'd be surprized if it really was out-gun'd by a £28 DX torch, for brightness/runtime.

    So, you pays your money, and you takes your choice.
    🙂

    If you're looking for a bike-only light, then I suppose you'll be tempted by the magicshine over the DX torch. £28, £50, its all pretty cheap lumens, not overlooking the compromises they bring.

    After all this, I hope you enjoy your night rides.

    Luminous

    I think it's summed it up nicely here

    Set2rise was a weird experience for me though. My Light in Motion Ultra Arc set on the bars with Joystick on the lid used to feel impressively bright but looks positively puny now! Plenty enough for the job.

    We won't be happy untill we have ridiculous levels of light, we're already bimbling arround with more light than most motorbikes. So why pay £450 for a light thats marginaly better in use and unarguably more durable? My choice right now is……

    DX light £50, if it lasts 2 years I'm happy, and can replace it with a 2000lumen light.*
    £450 lights, they'll last longer, maybe even 3-4 years before the battery dies and even then a new battery will probabbly be an economic replacement. But why bother? I could have upgraded the £50 lamp again and be on 4000lumens and still only have spent 1/3rd of the cost of the original £450 lamp?

    *I'm assuming a doubling of cliamed lumens ever 2 years seeing as my Q5's were considdered perfectly adequate 2 years ago, then it was 2xQ5 that was the norm, then 4 (or 1 P7).

    robdeanhove
    Member

    Me, I actually make my own lights, as it entertains me in the winter and for a while home made lights were significnatly better than the lights one could buy. Remember that massive light homebrew thread from many years ago? It was me that started it, so I have done my homework.

    For racing I always use exposure lights as the QR bracket and cabke free lights is a big advantage, particularly for solo, but I shan't eulogise about the exposure range any longer. I put enough of my time and money into racing for the extra cost to be more than worth while. In fact, I would suggest that most people here put enough time and money into cycling to justify the extra). Yes, I have got to know a couple of the guys at Exposure, but this has highlighted just how much effort goes into developing these into the very best bike lights, not just a bright torch in a neat package. You only have to see just how many of the endurance events they support to see how they got their lights so developed.

    For Set2Rise I was very lucky indeed to be lent their new light prototypes, but sadly they had to go straight back. Despite the light being very developed already, I was aksed for feedback on all aspects of it just incase it could be made better again, these guys are passionate about their lights!

    For the record, on the topic of burn times up there, Exposure do a piggyback battery which can be used (or even more than one of them, to acvhieve whatever burn times you want) and it's way quicker than swapping replacement cells into your battery pack or torch.

    However, given the levels of light we were all using 10, even 5, years ago, the DX torch is adequate, just hope no-one in your group has a briter light or you'll be riding in your shadow when they're behind you!

    I don't subscribe to the school of thought that too much light "ruins the night ride experience" for me it's just about getting out there by myself or with my mates and riding my bike. Rifding at night will always be different as the light source is mounted just in front of you and moves with you and the bike, quite different to the sun! I don't find myself going out at 2am in summer to get out in darkness to simulate a proper winter ride. I ride at night as I love riding my bikes and in winter, as I work full time, this means I have to ride in the dark, excellent lights make this possible. However, I do like being out in the open on a full moon with the luights off, truly peaceful.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Luminous – Member

    "To answer the question raised by a few here regarding mag reviews. There has been a review of the magicshine light, bike specific version"

    Though they reviewed one that was being peddled by a UK importer for £150 and still said it was incredible value 😉 Quite funny. It got a very good mark so I think if they'd got the price right it'd have done better.

    "Also, the beam from the torch was a little too narrow for off-road riding, in his opinion.
    However, as it has failed, the torch now lives in one of his desk draws, proabably never to be seen again.I believe it was vibration that finally claimed his torch."

    Get him to check the switch in the tail-cap, they can work loose which can stop it from engaging properly. Doesn't happen with the bike light but the torches aren't really designed for this level of vibration. A 2 minute fix with a paperclip if that's what it is though. As for too narrow, seems a bit odd to me, it's a big wide flood- most proper lights are narrower.

    Premier Icon brassneck
    Subscriber

    I would skip the Brightstar HID – they are pretty fragile and a replacement bulb was damn near the cost of a nice new LED headunit from Nightlightning. I bought that instead.

    My first and only Exposure experience was so bad I haven't been near them since. 30 yds into my first lap at D2D, it cut out, never to awaken. I had it on loan and it had to go back to the factory. One off maybe, but they leave the scars.

    DX light cost £50 and is as bright as anything I've used though maybe noit as all other rugged. New battery packs are easily knocked up with EBay cells if you fancy, and easily swapped mid ride. It's where I'd point anyone starting out in / occasionally night riding or wanting a decent commuting light.

    All things being equal, if I were to need a really good light and wanted to spend the money I'd buy Lumicycle – if I were doing more than one overnight race a year I'd drop my credit card on their doorstep without hesitation.

    Luminous
    Member

    Northwind.

    Yeah the review, I'm glad my memory isn't failing me, yet 😉

    Beam being too narrow, in his opinion, well, as we all know, its a personal preferrence thing.

    He did track the issue down to the end cap, which contains the switch, as you mention. But I think he just lost confidence, interest in it when it started to fail.

    the torches aren't really designed for this level of vibration

    I totally agree.
    🙂

    .
    .
    All things being equal, if I were to need a really good light and wanted to spend the money I'd buy Lumicycle – if I were doing more than one overnight race a year I'd drop my credit card on their doorstep without hesitation.

    Hhmmm. An interesting comment 😉

    L

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Tell him I'll give him a tenner for it if he can find it 😉 Mine are getting on now, it'd be good to have some spares.

    Oh, my last word, I promise… Someone else touched on this, but the technology's constantly moving forward so it's hard to see lights as a big investment, if you'd spent £400 3 years ago you'd now probably have a fairly outdated light, and might have come across battery fading issues. There's always something new and cooler around the corner so buying year-by-year can make sense. That's how I saw my torches when I got them, it just turns out I've not really wanted to replace them but when the next super-light comes out next year it'd be annoying to have spent a fortune on this year's super-light. Of course the flipside of that is that just because there's something newer and better, what you have isn't any worse than it was but if you're spending £300 on a light it's because you're not happy to settle for less.

    Premier Icon grtdkad
    Subscriber

    Northwinds point re

    technology moving on

    can be mitigated of course.

    Buy a decent quality light, use it for a year or so and ebay it – I often get 70-80% of rrp (which can actually result in a profit) and invest / upgrade in the latest versions. I go from year to year and NET cost is often very, very low but my lights are very, very nice.

    Simples. Its got me a long way from my original Cateye ABS30 and works out much better than an unloved light stuck in a drawer IMO

    Ewan
    Member

    To the OP if you decide you must spend a vast amount of cash on a bike light, get some of the Four4th lights. Vastly brighter than the DX one and the MaxxD. And cheaper as well (and built in the UK etc etc). And smaller. And with a very clever bracket.

    Having seen all of the popular expensive lights (and ridden in front / behind them), and compared beams etc, the only one that's actually tempted me to ditch the DX bike light and get a new one is the Four4th one. Better even than a Wilma 6 (or whatever that stupid lupine thing for 600 quid is called).

    http://www.four4th.co.uk/four4th_helmet_bundle.shtml

    smudge
    Member

    I now stock 2.4Ah protected cells and 2 cell chargers for the DX lights.

    If anyone needs any please feel free to email if you need any more info.

    Skyline-GTR
    Member

    3X Tesco 3W Cree torches with 2500mah AA cells mounted on my helmet have never let me down on my average 2hr night rides. One to climb, and switch it off. 2 to descend putting out about 300 lumens (plenty) and set to widen the centre spot. And the fact they gradually dim as you get more tired works for me, plus I've got an emergency light that's had time to cool down and get back up to about 150 lumens to get back to the car is great. And 2 AA spares in the backpack to cater for mechanicals, sorted.
    Only £8 to replace one of the torches if it breaks, and they're not likely to fail all at the same time.
    And all this for less than £50 including charger and cells.
    Why pay more?
    And I work in a shop that has demo lights from Lupine, Exposure L&M and Cateye.
    900 lumens? no need! wait for sunrise if you want to ride in daylight.

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