6 week old Cube Stereo HPA 160 Race Cracked

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This topic has 37 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 8 years ago by gavstorie.

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6 week old Cube Stereo HPA 160 Race Cracked
chr1s
Free Member

Gentle ride this morning through Tunnel hill and my bike tried to kill me!! The weld on the drive side just above where the axle screws into the frame failed and sent me hurtling to a mixture of trees, soft soil and stone. Whilst i escaped with some torn clothing my edge 1000 was not so lucky and its screen is cracked.
I’m glad it failed here with a guaranteed soft landing and not actually on a mountain, but scared me witless .

I’ve taken it back to the bike shop hoping for my money back but they are giving me the “have to check with Cube warranty first”. They had the bike in for a service under 2 weeks ago and didn’t spot any issues then. Given its only 6 weeks old & where the weld failed, i’m not confident about the quality of the rest of the rest of the bike. I’ve already highlighted to the shop excessive fork juddering under braking which they say is normal but i’ve not seen on any other bikes.

Any one know of other cube frames with failed welds or of other 2015 Stereo race 160’s that have failed? My last bike was a 2010 cube stereo the one, which i loved, but i found a hairline crack in the rear swing arm opposite a hole made by tyre rub a week before a trip to Spain and bought this 2015 race last minute as it was the only bike in my size in stock in my budget i could find within a 30 mile radious.

Posted 8 years ago

tthew
Full Member

Sale of Goods act is your friend here, (unless you bought it on credit). If you want your money back you can reject the goods, but within a reasonable time, which even 6 weeks may be outside. More info on Which website, including a template letter.

Don’t be fobbed off by the shop, your contract is with them and your bike appears to be neither of satisfactory quality or fit for purpose.

Here you go – Which advice page.

Posted 8 years ago

crashtestmonkey
Free Member

Is it a sticker?

Posted 8 years ago

FGF 701 The Hydrate Or Die Edition

orangeboy
Free Member

I would imagine the consequential loss of your Garmin will not be covered by anything other than goodwill by the shop or cube

Posted 8 years ago

wiggles
Free Member

As annoying as it is that your frame broke as above I very much doubt anything would come of trying to claim for the garmin, firstly It would be hard to prove that the frame cracking actually caused the garmin to get broken, not that you crashed and broke your frame and garmin…

But from experience cube will probably replace the frame.

Posted 8 years ago

bikeneil
Free Member

Good old Pube. Get your money back and get something with a better frame…

Posted 8 years ago

honourablegeorge
Full Member

CUbe have plenty experience with this sort of thing

Posted 8 years ago

Flaperon
Full Member

If you’d been injured Cube would have been liable (and since the shop is their distributer in the UK they’d also be liable) so I think the least they could do is replace your Garmin.

https://www.gov.uk/product-liability-and-safety-law

If I owned the shop, I’d sort you out with a new Garmin, new bike (or your money back) and think myself lucky that you didn’t go running to a no-win-no-fee lawyer.

Edit: The page linked to above says that you can sue for damage amounting to more than £275 for an unsafe product. I think you could safely argue that a bike that literally falls apart is unsafe.

Posted 8 years ago

chr1s
Free Member

Thanks everyone for all the responses.
@ crashtestmonkey ironically its a screen protector but to protect against scratches not impacts.
@ tthew: those links are great, section 75 looks promising. I purchased the bike on my M&S credit card, with the statement due to be paid at the end of June. I’ll be in touch with their dispute department on Monday to see where i stand. I’m hoping the local bike shop (small chain of 3 stores) will sort me out a full refund & recover their costs from cube so i can buy something else more fit for purpose. Other than not refunding me, they seem like a nice bunch of knowledgable guys, i’m hoping for a positive outcome, but I think ChainReaction, Wiggle or Planet x would have just refunded me without quibble though.

My understanding is that the weld is meant to be one of the strongest parts of the frame, having it fail where it did gives me serious doubts & no confidence about the other welds.
I’ve been having issues with the bike since i purchased it and asked if they’d take it back from me when it was serviced just 2 weeks ago. Having it fail like this just 3 rides after its LBS inspection makes me wonder what gets inspected when you take it in.

Posted 8 years ago

renton
Free Member

What other issues have you been having just out of interest?

Posted 8 years ago

thisisnotaspoon
Free Member

Having it fail like this just 3 rides after its LBS inspection makes me wonder what gets inspected when you take it in.

Cables adjusted, bolts checked for corect torque, spokes checked.

A full x-ray of all the welds is less likely!

I think you’re probably safe in terms of getting something sorted with it being so new, but the dificulty would be in getting a refund rather than a new frame, IIRC you have to give them a reasnoble chance to put things right first as in all likelyhood its a manufacturing fault so you just need a new seatstay?

Posted 8 years ago

tthew
Full Member

No reason why a bike shop would be making a detailed inspection of every weld during its first service. They probably wouldn’t have spotted anything anyway as it looks to have failed quite fast, the fracture surfaces are very clean. If it had been cracking from the first ride the exposed metal would be grubby/oxidised from exposure to dirty water from the trail and washing.

Posted 8 years ago

rOcKeTdOg
Full Member

I’m hoping the local bike shop (small chain of 3 stores) will sort me out a full refund & recover their costs from cube so i can buy something else more fit for purpose.

I’d have thought the thing they are likely to do is replace the frame, as it’ll cost them a lot less than giving you your money back. Plus the rest of the components are fine I’m guessing so they’ll not have to replace those. In fact they could just replace the broken stay and give you the frame back
as for liability for something attached to the bike that didn’t come as standard when you bought it such as the Garmin, I think you’ll be whistling for that

Posted 8 years ago

Junkyard
Free Member

Speak to credit card as they are jointly liable

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act

I see no way [ unless they claim crash damage] that anyone can claim that the bike was fit for for purpose as it broke under normal usage.

You dont have to accept a replacement as you can claim the goods were unfit and therefore the contract is null and void.
Personally I would want a refund and would be happy to see them in court.
I cannot see what defence they will offer tbh

Your issue is with the shop [ and credit card company] not cube
The shop – assuming largish should sort you out IMHO

Please note they need to show they were not faulty when you bought them the broken bike will make this pretty hard to do. I also see no way a reasonable person could consider 6 weeks fair use for a bike ..perhaps if you raced Down Hill for 6 hours a day for those 6 weeks.

Posted 8 years ago

tomhoward
Full Member

*dons flame proof suit*

How did the frame failure in that locationcause you to fall off?

Don’t get me wrong, glad you are ok and it does look like a mfr fault, i just can’t see how it would have sent you hurtling as the failure was behind you. It may or my not be the view of the shop that the hurtling occurred just before the crack. Something to bear in mind.

Posted 8 years ago

thisisnotaspoon
Free Member

How did the frame failure in that locationcause you to fall off?

fairly quickly i imagine if it allowed the disk to jam into the caliper or the wheel hit the frame. I had a similar crash when a QR failed, rocketed me over the bars.

Posted 8 years ago

tomhoward
Full Member

Fair point, would have thought the wheel would have just locked/skidded?

Not saying anything did or didn’t happen, just devils advocate…

Posted 8 years ago

singlespeedstu
Full Member

Agrees with Tom.
I’d not go in quoting sale of goods.
Just talk to them in a sensible manner and they should see you right.
You don’t want them to view you as a JRAer…

Posted 8 years ago

tthew
Full Member

I’d not go in quoting sale of goods.

neither would I straight off the bat, but if their response is unfair that’s your first point of escalation.

Posted 8 years ago

Junkyard
Free Member

He has not he has already taken it in to them and they have incorrectly quoted to him what they need to do.

They dont have to send it to Cube etc.

Posted 8 years ago

poah
Free Member

sale of goods act allows the customer, within the first 6 months, to choose refund, repair or replace unless a repair is more expensive than a refund or replacement.

Posted 8 years ago

wanmankylung
Free Member

Sorry to be pedantic, but that does not look like weld failure to me. Or if it is weld failure that person or thing who welded it missed the join and put weld on one side only.

Posted 8 years ago

tomaso
Free Member

It is not fit for purpose nor of merchantable quality. Given it happened well within 6 months of ownership it is the shop’s duty to prove that the bicycle was fit for purpose and of merchantable quality, end of. The ball is in their court.

However, that may only get you a replacement seat stay, not a full refund. When you are able to reject an item is normally very early on and this is where your argument may centre.

How many miles/rides has it done? Is it all logged on Gaemin/Strava?

Posted 8 years ago

bensales
Free Member

Likely scenario is a new swing arm fitted to the frame. GT did this for an RTS of mine years ago. Cheapest for the manufacturer and meets the legal requirements of the SOGA.

Posted 8 years ago

wiggles
Free Member

sale of goods act allows the customer, within the first 6 months, to choose refund, repair or replace unless a repair is more expensive than a refund or replacement.

Care to back that up with any sources?

As far as I know six months is just the border between the retailer having to prove it was ok at the time of sale and you having to claim it wasn’t.

Most recommendations are that you have only a few weeks to reject the item, if they agree to repair the item then I don’t really think you have much of a leg to stand on as that is within the rules.

Posted 8 years ago

chr1s
Free Member

the first i knew there was a problem was when the back wheel lodged itself in the frame during the last power stroke climbing to a crest i should have jumped, leaving me all over the place & departing the bike on the other side. The bike seemed fine when i span the wheel but useless when peddling. taking the wheel out revealed the failed weld. i was having to adjust the gear tension all ride before the break, i guess due to the weld failing.
since purchase i was having issues with the balance of the bike, putting more and more air in the rear shock & still finding it bottoming out. Sag was set at 20%, resulting in me taking air out the front shock mid ride to try and move the balance forward making the front of the bike too soft & the rear too hard except when taking bumps over 4 inches (curbs) where it would bottom out again. the shop suggested adding yet more air when i collected it after its service.

i’ll keep you all posted with developments.

Posted 8 years ago

ctk
Free Member

I don’t think you need to go in quoting sale of goods etc but I would let the bike shop know that you won’t accept another Cube Stereo (if thats how you feel) Do they stock a suitable replacement for you?

Posted 8 years ago

thisisnotaspoon
Free Member

Sorry to be pedantic, but that does not look like weld failure to me. Or if it is weld failure that person or thing who welded it missed the join and put weld on one side only.

It’ll be the welding rather than the weld, on one side it’s the (relatively) thin tube, on the other a forged/milled dropout. Trying to get those heated up evenly is tricky so it would possibly be the case that the tube got too hot.

Posted 8 years ago

smartboy
Free Member

Glad you are OK after the crash.

(Popping out to check the welds on my Cube Fritzz shortly).

Posted 8 years ago

chr1s
Free Member

when in the shop and looking at the shear, the rear facing side was shiny whilst the front side was dull Should have taken some pics to hi-light that) It looked to me like the front side had sheared some time ago. Aluminium doesn’t corrode like steel as a small layer of oxide forms, dulling its colour. No idea how long it takes to dull but the colour difference should be an indicator to an ongoing issue. for this reason i suspect an issue with the heat treatment of the frame & I now have no confidence with the quality of the rest of the bike.

This is/was my 3rd cube, 2nd cube stereo. I bought it as i was pleased with the previous stereo. S**t happens & i think i was just unlucky happens. I’d probably by another but would take longer than a few days to decide.

The shop have now contacted cube and awaiting a reply. They hope cube will refund them so they can give me a credit on a new bike. I’m still pushing for a refund though. The relationship with the shop is becoming strained, with them making veiled suggestions i’ve damaged the bike myself to get a refund. i thought the guy was going to have a breakdown when i asked how long i should wait before contacting them. I was thinking he would say they would be on touch Wednesday or Friday, instead i got a rant. I want to support LBS’s but only 3 days into this i fear this won’t be smooth or easy.

Posted 8 years ago

iolo
Free Member

3 days into this i fear this won’t be smooth or easy

Why? New swingarm fitted, move on.
It’s a shame about the Garmin but you won’t get anywhere chasing any combo for it.

Posted 8 years ago

aphex_2k
Free Member

It’s up to the shop to get their money back from cube in their own time. IMHO the shop where you bought the bike from should be sorting the refund. Is it a chain of shops or a standalone? A bike should last more than 6 weeks and that’s the point I’d be stressing while they put my credit card in the machine and getting the refund.

Posted 8 years ago

v666ern
Free Member

Why? New swing arm fitted, move on.
It’s a shame about the Garmin but you won’t get anywhere chasing any combo for it.

+1

I appreciate if you’ve lost confidence in it, but as you say you had a stereo before and it worked fine in fact this is your third cube.

cube stereo hpa race 160, cube stereo 2010 ‘the one’, cube LTD Pro 2009

Just let your LBS do their job and sort you a replacement rear end out and it’ll be fine. Its not the LBS’ fault that the weld failed remember.

I’ m not sure your point either of dragging up the 9 month dead thread on fake cube frames
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/cube-frame-from-aliexpress
or what your logic is on asking for swing arm bits from my thread about a 2011 dog old frame that I snapped due to a bad landing
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-cube-stereo-26-bike-split-shifters-chainguides-shim-mudguard-tyres-mech-1

if you can dig up my FS thread you would have seen why and how it snapped in my history.

Also yes you were just riding gently, but you bought this bike to take to Spain to ride so I’m guessing it wasn’t canal paths out there?

Yes its frustrating, but

A, your not broken
B, The back end will be warrantied.

Posted 8 years ago

Nobeerinthefridge
Free Member

I think you need to calm down dear, this only happened a few days ago. You will get the best solution from this if you work with the lbs, and don’t go ranting on social media before they have even had time to assess with Cube.

Posted 8 years ago

crashtestmonkey
Free Member

Sorry, the “sticker” question is a long running STW in-joke, based on an “is my frame cracked?” Post (possibly even a Cube) where the consensus was that it WAS the edge of a sticker, and the OP never followed up.

It’s early days yet. Have you contacted Garmin to see how much a refurb might be?

Posted 8 years ago

chr1s
Free Member

@v666ern the reason for asking about the swing arm on your frame in your post is because i have a hairline crack in my 2010 stereo which is why i bought the new stereo. Even had my new stereo not broke, i would have been asking about your swing arm to get my old bike back in service. I currently have no rideable bikes. And no i didn’t see your reason for selling.

As i’ve written, the new bike didn’t seem right from the start, and despite the bike shop checking it, it failed 3 rides later. the complete frame is meant to be heat treated so failures like that don’t occur, doesn’t seem like it was done properly, what will fail next & when?
I’m not blaming anyone, if the frame was 9 months or older id be relatively satisfied that it was just that area that was faulty & a repair or replacement would probably be ok. After just 6 weeks i expect a refund.

Posted 8 years ago

chr1s
Free Member

@Nobeerinthefridge (i read that as “nobber in the fridge” at first) the bikes only a few weeks old & i took it into the shop complaining about poor handling before it broke. I don’t know what riding you do but riding the knarlier stuff you need to have confidence the bike won’t fall apart on you. As i have already indicated the frame failed under little to no stress.
I’d have been happier receiving a refund and the LBS sorting things out with Cube so i can go and get something else. Its what i would have done.

Posted 8 years ago

gavstorie
Free Member

Cube will probably try to blame you for crashing the bike… Thats the experience that i had with them… Tell the lbs you are rejecting the bike on the grounds of safety and not fit for purpose and request a refund.

The onus is on the shop to prove that you broke it and that it wasn’t a failure of the part.

Posted 8 years ago

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