Viewing 37 posts - 1 through 37 (of 37 total)
  • 6" full susser …. too much for an all round bike??
  • renton
    Free Member

    Ive just gone from a 456 inbred to a spesh enduro and i can help thinking ive possbily bought too much travel!!!

    i understand for places like afan etc it will be helpful but i think i might be a bit overbiked for the likes of cannock and the wyre forest!!

    could it be that its set up for downhilling with big tyres etc and that if i lighten it up a bit it migh be ok.

    dont get me wrong i like the way it give me confidence to tackle some harder stuff, but when im grinding up a hill i wish i had my hardtail back!!

    what do you think???

    matthew_h
    Free Member

    I use a mk2 Nomad for all of my riding (apart from BMX track and commuting) and find it a very good compromise for all of the riding I do. It may not be absolutely ideal for XC or for DH but I have done full days in the Lakes/Peaks and also raced DH on it. It can be a bit of a struggle on steep tech climbs as the angles cause it to flap about a bit but as I am getting fitter I'm finding I can cope better.

    It's set up with reasonably light parts but not stupid light and comes in at just under 34lbs (33.9lbs this morning actually) and although it sounds heavy for an all day bike it suits me as I am heavier than you're average rider.

    The best bit though is that I never find myself on the wrong bike. There's not that time when you wish you were on your other bike to do a certain section of trail as it is already me that holds the bike back rather than the other way round.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    Accoridng to MBR, 6" travel is perfect for riding along canal towpaths. 😉

    grumm
    Free Member

    I ride a Pitch as my normal bike – but my usual riding is in the Lakes. Have ridden it up Helvellyn/High Street etc no problem and it's amazing on the downhills.

    renton
    Free Member

    i think its down to the fact it still has the heavy wheelset/tyres on it .

    ive not had the cahnce to ride it with the new wheels and tyres ive got which are near enough half the weight of current ones!!

    do you think it will make much difference??

    i know its never going to be a light bike but i m sure with a few choice upgrades it could be lighter but just as strong

    PJM1974
    Free Member

    I've bought a Marin Trail 140, which has more than enough travel… I have been known to commute on it too – only have space for one bike.

    Given the choice (and with Cycle to Work kicking off next year) I'd have a 100mm hardtail to keep me honest to go with the Marin, but in the meantime the Marin puts a massive grin on my face.

    FOG
    Full Member

    I have just bought a 4" FS after years on hard tails and after a few months of riding and really liking it I am beginning to wish I had gone for more inches! It has definitely improved my riding and I am tempted to do harder stuff that perhaps more suspension would help. So fiddle about a bit to make it more everyday and you might find it will do everythng.

    mildred
    Full Member

    Light weight wheels and UST systems have made the biggest difference to the way any bike of mine has ever ridden. Seriously, a 1 lb at the wheels feels like about 6 lb overall.

    I bought a Marin quake, which had mavic ex325's and dual ply 2.5 high rollers as standard. I swapped to Crossmax SX's and bonty tubeless ready tyres and it has totally transformed the bike. Seriously, a lightweight wheelset will make the biggest difference to any bike.

    Having had quite a variety of bikes I would say that the total travel of a bike has an effect, but not the biggest effect, on how a bike rides.

    My current bikes are a Nicolai Helius FR and the Quake. Both are used for anything and everything, but the common factor with these are the lighter wheels I use.

    matthew_h
    Free Member

    Alternating between light and heavy wheels makes a huge difference to how my bike rides. Heavier wheels and DH tyres makes it feel indestructible on the downhills but hideously sluggish for pedaling along and up. Lighter wheels and tubeless, XC tyres makes it feel a bit more skittish on the DHs but it's mailes nicer to pedal uphill.

    stratobiker
    Free Member

    I got 6 inches 😉

    An old Kona Coiler. 6" back and front. I've used it on lots of long group rides. Yes, the climbs maybe harder than on your hardtail until you adapt your technique!!! Then you'll find your not so slow. Plus you'll be able to climb some stuff that has a hardtail struggling.

    Stick with it. The Enduro is a fabulous bike.

    SB

    Garry_Lager
    Full Member

    I have a gemini which is a pretty big bike for general riding. Great fun, but I wouldn't want to ride it XC for longer than a few hours – starts to become seriously hard work.

    Where these bikes lose out, IMO, is not on the climbs, but on the across bits. You just accept that they're not at their best climbing, and dig in. No big deal. Obviously they rule descending – but they're pretty poor at going over rolling singletrack. Riding a big wallowly pig bike through the woods is a wee bit boring tbh – flattish trails that feel really zippy on the xc bike aren't as good.

    mboy
    Free Member

    You get used to the suspension travel, but not heavy wheels and tyres…

    My Giant Reign X is not my only bike, but I do ride it most, including for a lot of XC stuff. It's approximately 33lb currently, but with relatively lightweight wheels and tyres… My wheels are DT FR440 hubs (a lot lighter than they look, only tiny bit heavier than Hope Pro2's) on Mavic EN521 (540g each) with DT comp spokes. Nothing remarkable yet, but the devil is in the detail… And at that I am running Bontrager ACX 2.35" tyres (about 750g each, so light for a 2.35"), but without any tubes… I used the Ghetto method, which actually only uses about 1/3 of a BMX tube anyway as you cut the rest off, with approx 80ml of Stans sealant in each tyre. A fair bit lighter than running conventional rim tape and inner tubes, whilst allowing me to run the pressures I want without pinching.

    I could of course go lighter still, but then that would compromise the strength and grip I get currently, which is the point of a long travel bike anyway. But my wheels are certainly MUCH lighter than most people's on similar bikes, and that's what makes the biggest difference!

    DezB
    Free Member

    I've never felt "over-biked" (an expression I'll never willingly use, as it is mag-speak bollox imo) on my Yeti (not quite 6 inches).
    Weight of the bike has a lot to do with it, so good idea to lighten the wheels/tyres.
    I demo'd one of the classic 06 Enduros and it was a bit weighty going uphill, really accelerated well when you put the hammer down though.

    renton
    Free Member

    the wheels on there currently are mavic 3.1 d tubless rims and and xt rear hub and a non branded front. tyres are hutchinson octopus tubless which are 1.4 kgs each 😮

    ive just bought a set of wheel off of here, dt rims and a deore hub out back and a spesh stout front , they feel like they are made of air compaired to the others!! tyres are 2.2 michelin all mountain @700g each.

    quite a bit of weight saving me thinks!!

    will it be noticable tthough??

    mamadirt
    Free Member

    6" full susser …. too much for an all round bike??

    Oooh, I know this one!

    First dabble with full-sus after being a confirmed rigid singlespeeder for years was with a 4" travel Cowan DS – loved it but felt that a bit more travel would allow me to go a bit faster and try a bit more d/h so after a couple of l/t hardtails I went for a 6" travel Coiler – the extra confidence was amazing but it was hard work getting to and from the trails (and work) so after a good 7-8 months (that's a long time, trust me) I swapped back to a shorter travel full-sus (Intense Tazer with 130mm forks up front) – plenty slack enough to inspire confidence but still pretty nippy. Thought that this was 'the one' but upgrade fever struck and I swapped the forks for bolt-thru's (but 120mm, much lighter and considerably shorter axle to crown) and although the bike went like a little rocket uphill, I'd lost that confidence inspiring d/h ride. I wanted to ride downhill without having to slam on the anchors every time I came to a six inch drop 😳 😉 hence another swap, this time to a Santa Cruz Bullit . . . whoa!! . . . sit down, shut up, hold on (just don't expect to be able to climb anything at any speed 🙄 ). I really missed the 'pop' of my old Tazer so after just two weeks the Bullit's forks were lowered to 140mm and another Tazer ordered . . . pretty slack with the longer than recommended forks up front so I don't bottle the d/h's, 4" travel with lock-out at the back makes the climbs and the commute easier – spot on!! I guess travel adjust on the forks would make it near perfect but the old singlespeeder in me prefers to keep things simple (it's enough to have to remember to flick the propedal lever on the shock).

    Not sure whether lightening up your bike would make a lot of difference – I'd tend to go for an air shock with lock-out and maybe adjustable forks. Never been one to worry too much about weight . . . just fitted a pair of big ass 2.35 tyres to the Tazer which have taken it's weight to just under 35lb!!! much the same as the Bullit but I know which I'd rather climb on.

    Kramer
    Free Member

    From what I've heard, the Enduro is a bike that likes to be caned over pretty gnarly stuff. Have you tried it at the downhill courses at Stile Cop in Cannock?

    Agreed about 6" being too much for follow the dog, same at Sherwood Pines, it takes almost all the fun out of riding it.

    I've gone from hardtail to full suss this year. Bought my new bike at the beginning of June, I can honestly say that it's taken until know to get it dialled in correctly, and I'm only just beginning to scratch the surface of what it's capable of. Stick with the Enduro, it's an excellent bike, and they're popular for good reason.

    renton
    Free Member

    well im 17 stone so making my bike a bit lighter isnt going to make that much difference tbh!!

    mudhound
    Free Member

    No not too much travel but mine 34lbs with tubeless single ply tyres is rideable all day, but an extra 2 lbs plus for dual ply tyres is uplight/chairlifts mainly territory – so agree on rolling weight.

    grantway
    Free Member

    Try an Orange Alpine 160

    But personaly what did work for me is an Orange 5 AM
    with talas 160 fork upfront

    Weighs in at 29.5 lbs solid bike

    the_lecht_rocks
    Full Member

    Riding a big wallowly pig bike through the woods is a wee bit boring tbh – flattish trails that feel really zippy on the xc bike aren't as good.

    never a truer word spoken on this Forum

    PeterPoddy
    Free Member

    Grumm rides his Pitch everywhere and loves it. I don't ride mine everywhere because I have another bike (Inbred) for 'XC' stuff and as a result my Pitch has morphed into a heavier, more DH style bike. And that's fine for both of us.
    But the thing is we've most probably got the same bike, but set up differently, and that's the key to it I think. Get the right bike for you, and set it up properly and it'll be fine.
    DezBs Yeti is set up nice and light and will be lovely on 98% of trails as a result. My old 575 was set up a bit burlier than his, and was an incredible mile-muncher too.

    I think it's all about getting the right 6in bike, then setting it up for the riding you do. Yes, they will smooth the trails out a lot, but that's why you buy suspension, yes?
    🙂

    Yardley_Hastings
    Free Member

    my brother has a yeti 575 and rides a lot in the peaks, seems to be an ideal bike for the terrain. I've been riding with him a few times this summer when I've been on my Soul, obviously slower when the going gets mental but I find it more fun to ride for the usual reasons people roll out, choosing your line, feel the trail blah blah blah. The other thing that struck me from playing on the yeti is that when it all goes wrong (which it invariably does) you would be going a significant velocity and its going to hurt.

    people used to ride all sorts of stuff 'back in the day' on what would be deemed totally unsuitable bikes by todays standards, run what you've brung and if its not 100% suitably just smile and go as hard as you can anyway

    DezB
    Free Member

    when it all goes wrong (which it invariably does) you would be going a significant velocity and its going to hurt.

    That's the fun of mountain biking! Obviously not the hurt bit, but finding that limit: where it just might go wrong and doesn't 🙂

    ooOOoo
    Free Member

    run what you've brung and if its not 100% suitably just smile and go as hard as you can anyway

    Good words

    acjim
    Free Member

    Riding a big wallowly pig bike through the woods is a wee bit boring tbh – flattish trails that feel really zippy on the xc bike aren't as good.

    on the money, don't spend a fortune lightening the enduro, buy a hardtail as a companion bike. Either new if you've got the cash or 2nd hand if you're like me and tight/skint – best of both innit!

    ooOOoo
    Free Member

    If they did adjustable travel rear shocks, wouldn't that sort some of this out?
    You could have a fork with 150/130/110 mm
    & a rear shock with 150/130/110mm

    Drops the bb a bit if you've got a long flat section…raises you up if you're going somewhere rocky.
    Maybe the Bionicon system could be adapted?

    tinsy
    Free Member

    The wheels will make a big diference, but its the tyres you put on em that will really make the difference, my pal has an 06 Enduro, one of my favorite Spesh designs ever, I have ridden it in DH trim around our local tame loop and it was a pig, I have had a go of it with large ish XC tyres on it and its a lot lot more managable for pedalling about, if you got 2 sets of wheels why not run 1 as your big day DH setup and the light ones with suitable light fast tyres, and you got 2 bikes in 1..

    Do you have the gemotry changing shuttle on your one? another thing pointing it to being an ideal candidate for a 2 bikes in 1 ride if you do.

    Barney_McGrew
    Free Member

    I ride a Bionicon Golden willow so benefit from 6" travel but with the adjustable geometry and travel. With a change of tyre and a press of the orange button the bike can be a hard hitting trail centre machine or a quick and fairly nimble XC bike. Most of the year I ride it with Fire XC pro 2.2 which makes it a hugely versatile bike. I doubt I'll be able to replace it with one bike and to be honest I haven't felt the need to change it yet 1 year on.

    renton
    Free Member

    yep got two sets of wheels now and even holding both front wheels in my hand the weight difference is immense!!

    got both shock shuttles to so might have a play!!

    Kramer
    Free Member

    If they did adjustable travel rear shocks, wouldn't that sort some of this out?
    You could have a fork with 150/130/110 mm
    & a rear shock with 150/130/110mm

    And you could call it a Scott Genius?

    My first FS was an '06 Enduro, after 12 years riding HT's. I still kept my '97 Lava Dome though.

    At first I found the Enduro awesome, as we went out for fun pootles, there was no rush uphill and it was awesome downhill. However, riding companions change and groups get bigger. Combined with (at the time) dwindling fitness), I was finding lugging the 34lb pig around harder and harder. Occassionally it became a breath of fresh air to go out on the Kona, but then I found myself missing the Enduro when pointing downwards.

    Eventually, with a couple of bouts of minor illness, stress at work, laziness and general disinterest I found my fitness at rock bottom, my weight up to 15st and was going out less and less. When I did, I was resenting the Enduro on rides where I found myself struggling and decided I neded a lighter bike.

    I got a good price for the Enduro and had my heart set initially on a Remedy 8, but when a mate bought one, I felt inclined to go for something else (despite it being a very good bike) and set my attentions to an Enduro SL. Initial interest in aluminum models changed to a Pro Carbon as '08 prices started to come down. Before selling the old Enduro I'd considered just buying an SL frame and swapping the bits over, but had sacked that idea off, but I eventually settled on building up an S-Works.

    The parts list grew and inevitably the cost, but buying the frame/forks/shock/stem/post/front mech for £1500 saw me build the whole bike for £2700, with Hope Tech M4's, XT drivetrain and Roval wheels. The bike weighs in at around 28lb.

    My riding's rejuvinated, the bike is awesome up and down and I've lost 2 stone into the bargain. Certainly don't find it too much travel on any terrain and the HT doesn't get a look in now.

    GW
    Free Member

    that little self-consumed story ^^ has very little to do with what bike you had/were riding? 😕

    Ok, so I digressed. The old Enduro was too heavy to drag round when mates got fitter and the new Enduro is great – and no 6" isn't too much.

    The OP was about an Enduro, hence the relevance.

    Yardley_Hastings
    Free Member

    my Rocky Mountain ETSX had adjustable travel, with 4 / 4.5 / 5 inches available at the back and revelations on the front. didn't change it around that often & tended to run it at 4.5" with 115mm at the front. Seemed a bit pointless having a 4" travel bike with a 7lb frame, but it did have its uses. Prime example was stage 3 on la ruta where the first half of the stage was a 25 mile climb (4") and the last 20 miles was brain out downhill where 5" was perfect. Its now been replaced with a 4" Rocky Mountain element which is great, hopefully will get it into the peaks to fully extend it in the near future

    hicksville
    Free Member

    Grinding up the hill……well see Mark Weir big bike lots of travel and so on, keep riding and get fitter, look at your technique and save money! 😀

    or

    get lighter wheels as stated.

    Personally i have had big bikes sadly now sold my titus supermoto, 150 /170travel 36lbs 2.4 tryes over a timed course 10 miles with one long climb road and off road bits was less than 1 minute slower than my yeti asr 25lb bike, the titus made loads of time on the downs and stuck in the climbs nearly killed me mind you.I have always liked the comfort of big long travel bikes but I think 6 inch travel is too much for UK around 100 to 140 is about right, longish fork and you are away.

    soobalias
    Free Member

    so to sum up, a 6" bike is not too much for an all round bike, if its light enough.

    my asx is a bit much day in day out, but the new asr-7 is only just over 30lbs!

    renton
    Free Member

    cheers for all the replies!!

    ive stuck the new set of wheels on it and i can honestly say it feels like a new bike!! it was so much quicker all round to be honest and i didnt feel like the climbs were that bad to be honest!!

    i might even ghetto tubeless these wheels to make them lighter still!

    cheers

    steve

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