Turner just cos it wont crack, its built straight and if anything does go wrong then you've got a good warrenty to back it up with.

Could you point me to an article that explains why suspension might feel different in different chainrings – can't work it out personally.

Sorry OP – can't help. Have a DW 5spot, which I like, but no experience of the Tracer so of very little help to you.

Quite a lot of the 2009's DW Turners have cracked! Search this forum or mtbr. That said the CS is brilliant and the problem the 2009's had has been sorted on the 2010's……..Hopefully

Got a DW-Spot here.
Love it ! I'm sort of North West and would be happy for you to try it for size if that helps, but not a test ride !! (large btw)

Bought a 2009 model. It had a small problem. Turner sorted it out very quickly.. I now have the latest 2010/11 model 🙂
Beautifully built, climbs and descends so well, pro-pedal not needed; it hardly bobs at all in any gear when sat down, even when thrashing at the pedals !

Would buy another (if needed) without hesitation.

I demo'ed a Tracer and it felt "right", bought one there and then. It's built on the heavy side, but its un-flappable in all the riding conditions ive been in. There are times when ive ridden a trail, the trail faires have built a new drop off/ramp/berm, gone in too fast for my skills and the bike just rides it. I rarely want to ride anything else. My only gripe would be the bearings, the grease nipples didn't work that well so the bearings didn't last too long @ 12 months. Since replaced with sealed versions which should last longer.

Pedal feedback
Pedal feedback describes torque applied to the crankset by the chain caused by motion of the rear axle relative to the bottom bracket.[14] This can sometimes be felt by the cyclists and can be considered undesirable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_suspension

Isn't it just its a lot more noticeable in the little ring because of the gear ratio.

Wheel rotation caused by suspension compression – there is another effect affecting wheel rotation besides chain lengthening. For most designs, suspension compression also makes the wheel contact point with the ground getting more rearwards from the main frame, thus if the wheel is not sliding, the rear wheel will turn backwards. Also, as the suspension is compressed and the wheel's ground contact point remains the same (imagine a stationery position), it is turning backwards compared to the main frame. These wheel rotations cause pedal-kickback by the clutch mechanism and the tensioned chain – at the ratio of the rear and front cogwheels. Thus you will feel less pedal-kickback in larger gears.

You can check these previous effects (chain growth, pedal kickback, wheel backwards rotation) on your bike as well. Just pull the front brake and compress the rear of your bike. The wheel and the cranks will turn backwards. Of course, this also happens when you ride over bumps, just you can't separate this feeling this sharply from other effects.

The pedal-kickback values are shown positive counter-clockwise, since this what you really feel as "kickback". Wheel rotation values are shown positive clockwise, thus a positive value means "forward" rotation.

As an example (using Linkage and a model for a 2005 Intense 6.6), the chain growth when both front and rear suspension are compressed 100mm is roughly 13mm, this translates in a pedal rotation of 13.7 degrees in 32/32, 19.8 degrees in 26/32, 25.7 degrees in 22/32.

found this on mtbr

Thanks – quite a bit there to get you head around! Still no answer to the better in different chainrings bit though, unless its something to do with the amount of chain growth being different (or a different proportion of the total) in different gears.

With some bikes, the pivot is next to the middle ring. So in the little ring, the chain is below the pivot and the tension in the chain tends to pull the wheel downwards ie extend the suspension. Because this force is acting WITH the pressure of the shock, this makes your suspension stiffer. In the big ring, the opposite happens and yor suspension becomes more plush because chain tension is acting against the shock pressure. In the middle ring, it basically cancels out.

A subtle effect, but it's there.

not tried either of these ride wise but i'v had experiance in buying an intense and turner front triangles on their crash replacement scheme, a spyder and an older hl,5spot, (both in 09 though)
intense quoted £800 without bearings or anything and an 8 week delivery time,
turner were £350 posted with spare decals, choice of headbadge, colour, and a full bushing kit, deliverd from the usa 6 days, they even posted it out before the cheque had arrived (i have no credit card),
make of that what you will

Gee76 off here (Grant) has a tracer and has test ridden a Sultan (DW Link)

Might be worthwhile contacting him to see what he thought, if you mail me i'll give you his number.

or his e mail is in his profile.

he tried both at Wheelbase BTW.

Fair enough.

I believe Intense uses better bearings now. The first tracers had a problem with rear triangles cracking, the current lot have a burlier rear triangle which should sort it out.

Regarding my problem with the frames geo, Intense where very friendly about it. They replaced the Tracer with an Uzzi and promised a free upgrade to a more expensive shock. It took one month for the original answer (directly the offer for replacement) and another 5 months before I had the frame (which arrived without the shock upgrade and with the wrong stickers).

I already expected things to be pretty slow as I had quite questionable experiences with their customer service before my original purchase (emails on their website where bouncing due to be full, sales being one). When I had the problem some other email was also bouncing due to being full…

They have been reworking their customer service and logistics, and also quality control, so I expect they'll get their shit together sooner or later. And over 50 emails later they where all friendly and in good spirit. It's possible things would have been faster if my existing frame was unridable, but they immediately agreed to cross shipping and knew I could ride the old frame.

Anyway, I've just heard good things of the Turner, and believe customer service is very important if things happen to go wrong.

Funny really Danny that if / when I have to replace my spot, I'd be looking at these two also. I havent tried the Intense, but it is just a gorgeous bike. I'd also consider a Nicoli.

I still think I'd get the Turner though. Mine has never put a foot wrong, and when I needed a bit of advise on setting up a new shock, Mr. Turner himself sent me an email helping me out!

Got a Tracer myself, a lovely ride when you get it sorted but for me a real problem child. Frame design sucks (not performance, but the design) – pivot bolts prevented standard Shimano XT cranks from rotating (newer versions are now flush fitted bolts) – 6 weeks for warranty replacements, Atlas cranks won't work at all as bind on frame, rear triangle impacts on a XT mech unless you mod it, rear triangle cracked and took over 12 weeks for replacement, but worse of the lot, the RP23 sucks if you're over about 12 stone. Blows through all travel riding off a kerb unless you set silly small amounts of sag. After playing around with Pushing took a replacement with a Manitou ISX 6 before the frame would perform.

Think carefully about the Tracer, test ride one, have a look at the Intense threads on MTBR, then make your mind up. Love the way mine rides now but given the chance again I wouldn't have choosen one.

Don't agree about the cranks at all. Plenty of pictures here http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=484045 of Tracers with XT/RaceFace/XTR/Truvativ etc. all fitted fine. Agree about the RP23 and there have been some issues with cracks but new ones have an improved design. CS appears to be improving. As said my issue was resolved pretty quickly by the importers.