Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 48 total)
  • 350+ lashes for the Brit in Saudi Arabia
  • robgclarkson
    Free Member

    in a way i feel sorry for the guy, but on the other had, if you go and make a life in a backwards barbaric country like that and flagrantly flout their laws, you kind of know whats coming…. he was home brewing and got caught….

    also, the term “pensioner” is a little emotive don’t you think? “former oil exec” doesn’t seem quite so soft….

    A British pensioner faces 350 lashes in Saudi Arabia after cops found wine in his car.

    Karl Andree, 74, was reportedly arrested in Jeddah last August after bottles of booze were found in the vehicle.

    The oil executive is being held in grim conditions in a prison by the Red Sea notorious for torture and overcrowding.

    His children Hugh, 46, Kirsten, 45, and Simon, 33, are afraid the brutal sentence he has been given could kill him as his health has already been weakened by cancer, according to reports.

    They have been frantically lobbying the British Foreign Office and Saudi authorities to secure the release of Mr Andree.

    His son Simon has reportedly called on David Cameron to “personally intervene and help get our father home. The Saudi Government will only listen to him.”

    A Foreign Office spokesman told Sky News: “Our embassy staff are continuing to assist Mr Andree, including regular visits to check on his welfare, and frequent contact with his lawyer and family.

    “Ministers and senior officials have raised Mr Andree’s case with the Saudi Government and we are actively seeking his release as soon as possible

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/family-british-pensioner-sentenced-350-6622670

    wwaswas
    Full Member

    Chances of our government doing anything other than make reassuring noises is pretty limited:

    http://blogs.ft.com/david-allen-green/2015/10/12/hidden-agreements-on-justice-and-policing-uks-appeasement-of-saudi-arabia/

    And so it does not matter what Saudi Arabia does to its own people, or what it does over here; the UK has to turn a blind eye and a deaf ear. The prime minister in that interview even used the euphemism “punishment procedures” for the crucifixions and beheading and floggings and torture that go on. That is how bad things have got: two and two no longer equal four.

    There is a word for doing things out of fear of what a country with power will do if it is displeased with you: appeasement. There is now nothing the Saudi state can do that the UK will say is too much: the appeasement of Saudi Arabia will always be more important.

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    Shame for him, but their country their rules.

    cranberry
    Free Member

    The oil executive is being held in grim conditions in a prison by the Red Sea notorious for torture and overcrowding.

    If you don’t want to do the time and lashes, don’t do the crime in a barbaric country.

    Teetosugars
    Free Member

    If you can’t run with the big dogs, then don’t piss up tall trees.

    onandon
    Free Member

    He’s lived in the country for quite sometime. He chose to ignore the rules and got caught.

    bikebouy
    Free Member

    Hmmm, bit harsh but the Saudis made the rule for thier own reasons and the guy has lived there for some time..
    Whilst I have sympathy, he should abide by the rules of the country he’s been residing in.

    globalti
    Free Member

    The disgraceful irony is that Saudi Arabia is the biggest export market in the world for Johnny Walker. Are we surprised?

    atlaz
    Free Member

    Meh. If it was a pensioner who’d kept a couple of miniatures from the plane I could be bothered. As it is someone who’s lived there for donkeys years should know better. The lobbying should be to turn his lashes into a prison sentence but unless there’s doubt he did what he’s been found guilty of, he committed a crime in the place he lived.

    binners
    Full Member

    350 lashes does seem excessive. It must have been a really poor quality wine.

    RustySpanner
    Full Member

    [video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=16sT4yV43Cs[/video]

    thestabiliser
    Free Member

    ‘what you doing this week grandad?’

    ‘Getting lashed’

    MSP
    Full Member

    His son Simon has reportedly called on David Cameron to “personally intervene and help get our father home.

    His home is in Saudi.

    I have lived in Germany for 7 years, if I get into trouble with the German authorities I don’t expect the UK government to give a flying ****.

    The disgraceful irony is that Saudi Arabia is the biggest export market in the world for Johnny Walker. Are we surprised?

    He won’t really be in trouble for brewing wine, he will be in trouble for falling out with a Saudi national. That is how the country he has chosen to live in works, frankly he must be completely batshit mental not to get out of the craphole when he retired.

    FuzzyWuzzy
    Full Member

    Yeah I’m guessing he pissed off a Saudi whilst working as an oil exec and this is his payback.

    ti_pin_man
    Free Member

    I’m assuming this but it strikes me that if he’s lived there for 25 years then he’s probably brewed up his own wine for quite a bit of that time, it takes a bit of planning and the like, so I imagine he’s done it for years. Perhaps many of those 25 years. He’s got away with it for years and is now caught. He should know the system well enough so I struggle to muster up much sympathy. BUT its also a harsh punishment that my western eyes thinks exceeds the crime. Just how tough is a lashing? I cant imagine its a tickle with a feather but might it really kill him?

    wrightyson
    Free Member

    All in one go or several sessions, I believe the choice to be yours.
    Ever remember when one of your mates caught you with the snap of a damp towel after swimming.
    It’s gonna come keen however he takes it…

    P-Jay
    Free Member

    I feel for the guy, it’ll likely kill him, but the place is a hell hole, a horrible place, ruled by horrible hypocritical people who use religion as a means to protect their dictatorship.

    He not only knew this, he benefited from it, he chose to move their 25 years ago for money, or lifestyle or whatever, the same brutal regime that will give a 74 year old 350 lashes, but it’s the same one that created the wealth he went for.

    Considering their love of cutting peoples heads off in the street after kangaroo courts, or removing eyes, hands or whatever they fancy – you might think he got off lightly, there’s a chance he’ll survive.

    binners
    Full Member

    The Saudi’s spend billions on British arms, properties in London, gold plated Rolls Royces etc. They’re also portrayed themselves (however ridiculously, as we know) as a last bastion against the rise of the Islamists in the region (though they’re actually the cause of most of it).

    Basically, they can do wherever the **** they like! And they know it!

    And as the region descends further into chaos, the justification for their medieval brutality becomes more justified in their eyes, and easier to excuse in the eyes of western governments.

    They’re winning all ways up at the moment

    konabunny
    Free Member

    The disgraceful irony is that Saudi Arabia is the biggest export market in the world for Johnny Walker. Are we surprised?

    This is bollocks. And if you applied the slightest degree of critical thinking, you’d realise it’s bollocks.
    http://m.drinksint.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/5406/Scotch_whisky:_Blending_In.html

    ti_pin_man
    Free Member

    Living in Saudi and Alcohol

    makes interesting reading. Reading between the lines its against the law but lots of people self brew. Transporting is risky and him being a foreigner got caught with his pants down. I guess he must of pished somebody off by taking these liberties.

    johndoh
    Free Member

    Why was he transporting it in the first place?

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    HArd to defend Saudi but also he knew the rules and took the risk

    Given they lash almost anyone for anything i am not sure why we are only meant to give a shit when it happens to an ex pat

    We really should not be treating this nation as a friend though

    br
    Free Member

    He’d lived there for the last 25 years…, and Karl Andree – exactly how “British” is he?

    hugo
    Free Member

    This is a tough one having worked recently in Saudi.

    Quite frankly he’s been unlucky/made a stupid mistake. The reason being is that the general consensus is to leave western expats to have some freedom when it comes to alcohol. Many compounds have bars in them and alcohol is brewed and drank freely. Don’t do it in public, don’t be drunk in public, don’t flaunt it (Facebook, etc). Out of sight, out of mind.

    His mistake was to stick it in his car as car checkpoints are common. He will know this. Most of the time having a white face means you’re just waved through. They don’t usually search your car, but large containers easily seen in the boot/backseat are going to be looked at for obvious reasons. Then with 20 other police officers milling around, it’s very hard for Saudi PC Plod to show leniency.

    A big issue, with locals and immigrants, is the huge hypocrisy when it comes to drinking, especially from the House of Saud.

    There also may be other factors which is why he’s being treated how he is. Spouting off on social media, crossed the wrong person, etc. Also, his behaviour on arrest is a big thing, as is the outlook of the police captain he ended up in front of. I’m honestly not casting aspersions, but other things can come into play, and this case stands out. It’s a strange place – the truth is often hard to come by.

    scandal42
    Free Member

    IS = Barbaric nut jobs who do unimaginable things to people

    Saudi = Advanced nation and good friends who can do what the **** they like

    Cosying up to these inhumane bastards is against everything we should stand for. But truth be told we don’t really care what shit goes off as long as it benefits us politically or financially.

    jekkyl
    Full Member

    350 lashes with what? a whip? like indiana jones’s? jesus, that’s gonna draw blood and then some.

    jon1973
    Free Member

    it’s going to smart a little.

    wrecker
    Free Member

    This is bollocks. And if you applied the slightest degree of critical thinking, you’d realise it’s bollocks.

    It might well be, but that link doesn’t prove your point.

    neilthewheel
    Full Member

    It’s a long, sharp shock.

    sobriety
    Free Member

    Ahhhh, Saudi Arabia. The only place in the world that no-one in our company wants to visit.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Interesting. At face value I agree with this:

    Shame for him, but their country their rules.

    However, its intriguing that similar issues in this country are making headlines to the opposite. I was listening to a radio station yesterday and today whereby they were describing “cultural issues” and an education therein as a current reason to not to persecute immigrants to this country.

    The two cases made examples of were:

    a) The rape and beating of a a woman, completely acceptable as “normal” in the source country but of course not here

    b) Some Syrian immigrants had sourced guns, and have been caught shooting at a farmer when being chased away from apparantly stalking his livestock.

    Now, here i the UK its suggested we take these people to one side, educate them to our cultural levels of acceptance so they won’t repeat offend.

    In Saudi though, they flog the guy. So you have low tolerance vs high tolerance, attempting to achieve the same basic outcome.

    freeagent
    Free Member

    Ahhhh, Saudi Arabia. The only place in the world that no-one in our company wants to visit.

    Exactly the same here – Our Service techs work regularly in Dubai, Oman + Bahrain, but if we ever got a job in Saudi I don’t think any of them would go.

    As for this guy – he’s lived there for 25 years so knows the rules – however the house of Saud are a backward, medieval regime, which behave appallingly. I’m not sure they are morally any better than IS.

    convert
    Full Member

    Whilst still a barbaric act to western eyes, a ‘lashing’ is not quite what you would expect if you are thinking of what you have seen in films (12 years a slave etc). Each individual lash doesn’t look to be as bad as the caning quite a lot 40yr old + members of this community would have received at school as a child as recently as the mid 80’s.

    I remember watching a boy of 14 getting caned on stage at assembly in my state school 31 years ago. Can still hear the whistle of the cane through the air now. Were we so different?

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk1S1_QzOB4[/video]

    crankboy
    Free Member

    There appears to be little difference between Saudi Arabia and Isis in morality and justice Saudi Arabia just has some history, is run be a family who are friends with important players in the UK and America and access to legitimate markets for their oil . Cameron has no claim to any form of ethical foreign policy given his support for and dealings with them and goes beyond satire when he backs them to lead the UN Human Rights council (Blair and New Labour were as bad.)

    On the point though the guy has lived there for years chosen to make a shed load of money out of that regime and therefor directly profited from the culture and its exploitation of others including the virtual slavery of foreign workers from less well regarded countries, so my sympathy for him when the culture and regime turns round and bites him is somewhat blunted.

    binners
    Full Member

    I was listening to a Tory MP defending the sentence on the radio this morning

    But then I suppose 350 lashes is the kind of thing he’d have to pay damn good money for

    Marin
    Free Member

    He’s lived there long enough to know the score

    iolo
    Free Member

    David Cameron on Saudi deals

    “You’ve been asked to intercede with the Saudis over the 17 year old boy…who faces execution and crucifixion. Have you?”David Cameron was asked to intervene in the case of Ali Mohammed al-Nimr – who was arrested when he was just 14 – by Jeremy Corbyn and human rights groups.Watch the full interview with Jon Snow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkjGqOg5-Kw

    Posted by Channel 4 News on Tuesday, October 6, 2015

    johnners
    Free Member

    On the point though the guy has lived there for years chosen to make a shed load of money out of that regime and therefor directly profited from the culture and its exploitation of others including the virtual slavery of foreign workers from less well regarded countries, so my sympathy for him when the culture and regime turns round and bites him is somewhat blunted.

    I think you make a good emotive case and I have to say my sympathy is indeed somewhat blunted. However, whipping someone is torture, plain and simple. I’m against torturing people.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    “He’s an old man, he’s 74, he’s survived three types of cancer with very strong cancer treatments, he’s asthmatic, he has gout

    Isn’t alcohol linked with gout?

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