Right, I'm not a weight weeny, or a racer – I'm just building up a new bike. It will be a dream to use on trails across the land and it will make me a mountain goat (rather than the useless ninny I am currently)

As it is my reward to myself for excellent behaviour (if I do say so myself), I'm eyeing up some of this new 10 speed stuff and wondering if it is something I should be doing – mostly because I don't want to decorate the bike with shiny 9 speed and then upgrade it again later.

But, I really don't want 30 gears – is 2×9/10 for normal people, or should I just stick to 27 and leave 1/18/20 gears to the banana eating lycra wearing leg shavers amongst us?

If 2×10 can be for the baggy short wearing hairy of leg and face types what do I need?

10 speed cassette (11-36?), chain, rear derailleur and shifter.
2 ring chainset (where do you get them then? Not that nasty SLX dual & bash, surely? What are good ratios for a normal person?)
Presume front shifter and derailleur are as normal?

I know this subject comes up a lot on STW, but it tends to get a bit confusing, and there's all this talk of XTR – eep!

Oh, also, anywhere selling SRAM 2×10 X0, X9, X7 yet?

ta,

thebunk

For offroad – non racer type riding 2 x 10 (or 2 x 9) is fine.

I run 22/36 up front and 11-34 at the back. I don't think I've ever spun out off road with this gearing

If you went 10 speed and 11-36 at the back you might want to run a 24 or 26 tooth granny.

I've had 2×9 for a while and despite my current state of extreme lack of fitness, 24/36 and 11-34 has been fine for weekends at trail centres and so on. Low enough for all the climbs and high enough for all the DHs

So for 2×10 either the same ratios above or you could go 11-36 if you really want that super spinny bail out gear.

Excellent – 2×10 really appeals. So where do you get a 24/36 chainring? Can everything else at the front continue to be 9 speed?

Sorry for the stupid questions 😳

I bought the 24 from SJS and the 36 from the classifieds (they're for sale actually if you're interested – I've since changed to a 29er so have 22/32 chainrings instead now)

No other changes – 9 and 10 chainrings/mechs speed are compatible

I've bene running a MiddleBurn Duo 29/42 on a 456 for most of the summer – it's been fine on most of the ridign I do (South Downs).

I have a triple on my FS bike and never use the inner ring. If it wasn't running a very pretty XTR 960 crankset I'd probably change that to a 'proper' 2 ring setup.

Do you really need those extra 2 gears you'll gain over 2×9? Seems a bit daft to me.

Buy an XT hybrid chainset (26,36,48) (I go one off merlin for £95) take the 48 off and replace with a bash, job done

Why fit a bash? No need unless you always bash it.

Or if you want to look ruffty tuffty 😉

bash guards do stop your trousers getting dirty if you use the bike for commuting…

Why loose the big ring at all? More speed, more fun, surely?

pointless.
no better or worse than 3 x 9 or any other gear setup.
it just shuffles them around a bit.
i wouldnt worry about it.

im still mourning 3×7

Olly – there are some advantages to 'proper' 2 gear chainsets as the chainline is altered so you don't need to change the front ring as often – you can use more of the cassette in each of the front rings.

No need for a big ring for my OFF ROAD bike – I very rarely spin out 36×11. YMMV depending on where you ride.

pointless? Not really – better clearance, lighter, same useful range, less front shifting. Really it's triples that are pointless – they're just a hangover from when we were running 5/6/7 speed and in order to have decent range on a double you'd have to have huge gaps between the ratios at the back. Now we run 9 and soon 10 speed, it's not necessary.

11-32 and 26/38

Gets me up an Alp as quick or as slow as I want, and as quick or slow as I want back down again. Also used it in wales, for high pace training rides, and plenty of mucking about in between.

Don't use middleburn chainrings though, they're rubbish. Chainsuck like mad.

1 Don’t use the word “Ninny” unless you are actually in the 1940’s…

2 Don’t bother with 10 speed for a couple of years yet until it’s permeated every groupset and thus it’s relative cost is reduced, like you said you’re not bothered by weight, and spare parts for 9 speed will not suddenly disappear overnight…

2×9 using an 11-32 or 11-34 Cassette will cover you for just about everything a 2×10 setup would… you can remove the “Nasty” bash ring from the SLX chainset you know, or for that matter take any chainset and simply fit 2 rather than 3 chain rings it’s not rocket science honest, chainrings can be purchased in various sizes from most bike shops…

'proper' 2 gear chainsets as the chainline is altered so you don't need to change the front ring as often

Well, on a triple I use the 32t middle ring about 95% of the time, it sits right in the 'sweet spot' of where I ride. If I changed to a double with, say a 36t and 24t, I reckon would have to change gears a lot more often at the front.

Idle speculation ahoy.

Well, on a triple I use the 32t middle ring about 95% of the time, it sits right in the 'sweet spot' of where I ride. If I changed to a double with, say a 36t and 24t, I reckon would have to change gears a lot more often at the front.

That's the problem with a triple. You've kind of got the small chainring and the smaller half of the gears in the middle ring for climbing, and the rest of the gears in the middle ring and the big ring for descending. So you end up shifting when climbing and when descending.

With a double you have the small ring for climbing, the big ring for descending. You shift when you get to the top, and when you get to the bottom. And because you spend equal time in both rings, the whole system wears slower.

I've also been looking at this, currently run an old M960 XTR chainset with 22/32/44 and either a 11-32 or 11-34 cassette.

Only use the granny on steep hills, or when knackered – and prefer to be in my big ring where possible. I'm concerned about chainline also.

So if I went with a 11-36 ten speed cassette (to get the low gear), what two front rings (prefer for my M960 XTR, although I also have an M760 XT) are recommended – obviously needing a low gear (for those times…), and a decent top gear.

Or DAK know of a decent website with gear 'data'?

And

2×9 using an 11-32 or 11-34 Cassette will cover you for just about everything a 2×10 setup would…

But the difference between a 32 and a 36 is really walking or riding…

b r, I'd suggest a 26/38 (like what I use). You lose a few high gears, and you lose a few low gears, but it won't bother you when you ride.

Thanks for all the help – I hardly ever use the big ring, hence the question really. As I'm buying all new stuff anyway, I can justify going to 10 speed – it doesn't look as though it will work out all that much more expensive than 9 speed tbh – just saves buying XT 10 speed shifters again later, innit.

Oh, and cookeaa – you sir, are a Nincompoop! 😉

You can't fit 26/38 to an M960, you can't fit much else frankly, so you'll have to do it on the M760.

I prefer 28/40 to 26/38 myself, or 28/42 with a 10 speed cassette. It's rather a personal choice though!

is 2×9/10 for normal people

I've been running 2×10 since January and think it's great. Mine is 42/28 with a 36/11 cassette .

If 2×10 can be for the baggy short wearing hairy of leg and face types what do I need?

Patience until X0 or X9 is available? :o)

Along the top are the cassette teeth number

Along the side is the chain ring teeth number, green for the double set up.

In bold is what the gears you should be able to run (as you won't be able to go big-big or small-small)

So going from a big ring of 44 to a big ring of 38, you lose less then one gear.

And the same from 22 to 26, you lose less then one gear.

Although I guessed at the cassette ratios, I don't really know what a 10 speed 11-36 cassette comes with..

Or you could just ditch the granny and outer and go 1×9… 😉

For me the biggest advantage of 2×9 is that you can shorten the chain length and increase chain tension when in the larger ring. This means that you are in optimal gear for descending without the slack that a 3 ring setup would give you. Fewer dropped chains.

Realman, thanks for that – as said really just losing a gear (and a half) at either end.

Now need to look at rings (and BB spacing) as my On One's are a bit 'tight' in that area.

DAK who makes 26/38 (or equivilent) chainrings for XTR M960 cranks?

Just been looking and the best I found were Blackspires with 24/34, which would leave me too short at the top-end.

DAK who makes 26/38 (or equivilent) chainrings for XTR M960 cranks?

No one, as I said. You may be able to get custom ones from Boone or similar, but TA Chinooks on the M760s would be more sensible.

Or… buy an M970 from Merlin, flog the rings and buy the TA ones, I did that, it ended up costing about £150 all in.

Sorry Nick, missed your post.

Maybe its XX time 😆

I'll forgive you 🙂

XX rings don't last, first hand experience is telling me that!

I do think the SRAM ratios are better than the XTR M980 ones though, as you can get a wider cassette using wider spread of rings strikes me as more obvious! The X.9 cranks may be a sensible option.

I think the answer to this has to be yes, but I'll ask anyway.

Is the jump between rings on a proper double front system the same as on a triple? So you don't need a specific front shifter; ie: I could buy a double front and use a triple shifter but just adjust the stops so i don't derail the chain over / under?

Is the jump between rings on a proper double front system the same as on a triple? So you don't need a specific front shifter; ie: I could buy a double front and use a triple shifter but just adjust the stops so i don't derail the chain over / under?

Yes. Just use a normal mech. The picture I posted above of my set up is with just a normal triple shimano xt front mech.

yes.

You're asking a couple of questions there:

Is the jump between rings on a proper double front system the same as on a triple?

Not necessarily

I could buy a double front and use a triple shifter but just adjust the stops so i don't derail the chain over / under?

Correct.

Thanks. But Realman – yours is what I'd call a triple with two rings on rather than a 'proper' double. ie; you still have the front rings offset to the rear so will be crosschaining if you use the small ring with the bottom half of the cassette. A proper double would have the rings equally spaced either side of the midline, wouldn't they, to prevent this?

And Njee – what systems would have different spacing between front rings then (and thus wouldn't they need new shifters?)

yours is what I'd call a triple with two rings on rather than a 'proper' double. ie; you still have the front rings offset to the rear so will be crosschaining if you use the small ring with the bottom half of the cassette. A proper double would have the rings equally spaced either side of the midline, wouldn't they, to prevent this?

Just space the BB differently..?

I can use all my gears on both rings, just there's a bit of noise in big big and small small.

Thanks. But Realman – yours is what I'd call a triple with two rings on rather than a 'proper' double. ie; you still have the front rings offset to the rear so will be crosschaining if you use the small ring with the bottom half of the cassette.

No he doesn't, he's using the inner and middle positions, so his big/big is like middle/big on a normal triple. Either way, it's a standard front mech, I've run a double with the middle and outer positions, and the middle/inner positions, either is fine with a triple shifter and mech.

According to SRAM, XX uses custom spacing and will only work with an XX mech and shifter. This is not actually the case, as Blazing_Saddles, among others, can attest!

Basically… virtually any combo will work!

I also have a triple with two rings and find that the middle ring can use all sprockets fine while the inner one works fine on all except the smallest sprocket (which rubs a tiny bit) which would be a silly combo to use anyway I reckon.

FWIW, I do use an SLX double specific front mech though.

But the difference between a 32 and a 36 is really walking or riding…

Yes maybe, but at the same speed.