its complicated amd I don’t understand it so its best someone else decides”

That is sensible, as long as the person that decides is more knowledgeable rather than less. Too late now, but why i feel in matters such as this an abstention should fall on the side of status quo rather than just not count.

i feel in matters such as this an abstention should fall on the side of status quo

That’s a sodding good point, and an equally obvious one.

Leavers are in the minority, plain and simple.

in matters such as this an abstention should fall on the side of status quo rather than just not count.

That’s a slippery slope though.

I’d prefer to see more scrutiny and regulation on claims made in elections and referrenda. And more consideration about what is a fitting subject for a referrendum in the first place.

If Farage got his way we’d probably be voting on the right to own guns and capital punishment next.

And of course parliament may still take the view that the majority of the UK population has not expressed a desire to leave the EU.

As Chillcot looms, Im reminded of…..

When our MPs voted for the Iraq war
It was based on a pack of lies and made no mention of an exit strategy

There wasnt even a Dodgy Dossier, just a Bullshit Bus
and it turns out no one has a Brexit strategy either

Either No vote to the status Quo or requiring the margin for a change to be higher seems entirely fair, the majority +10% want to make the change and needing a minimum turnout out 75%/compulsory voting? If we ever have to put this sort of massive decision to the people the importance must me made very clear to people.

It’s not such a bad idea to have a are you pissed off with the government type question on there to get some of that angst out the way before the real one

I know 2 outers who signed the petition…

Personally I wonder if we should have a threshold on votes like this. As in, since it’s so close it shouldn’t be accepted. It needs say a 60% + majority to be valid. This is not the perspective of a bitter remain voter (I’m actually quite happy watching all this pan out knowing its win win for me) but I’m saddened by how bitter it is out there at the moment…it’s not healthy for society….

the approach should have been to hold a referendum to gauge the nations opinion, NOT make a decision.

With a majority in favour of leaving, we could have gone back to the negotiating table in the EU with a clear mandate.

we still can. It’d be a snub for ‘democracy’ but nothing in the rules against it.

I’d prefer to see more scrutiny and regulation on claims made in elections and referrenda

There was plenty of scrutiny. People just chose to ignore what they didn’t agree with.

the approach should have been to hold a referendum to gauge the nations opinion, NOT make a decision.

That’s exactly what happened. Advisory.

the approach should have been to hold a referendum to gauge the nations opinion, NOT make a decision.

With a majority in favour of leaving, we could have gone back to the negotiating table in the EU with a clear mandate.

And that’s one interpretation that might still be put on events, with it being so close and us seeing so much remorse since.

I know Juncker said no more renegotiation, but never say never in politics.

I think a second referendum following further negotiation is more likely than a simple “is that your final answer?” repeat referendum.

There was plenty of scrutiny. People just chose to ignore what they didn’t agree with.

Not enough regulation when scrutiny revealed one side was telling whoppers though.

Not enough regulation when scrutiny revealed one side was telling whoppers though.

Which would have lead to a load of here is the truth the government doesn’t want you to know about blah blah blah..

It’s tough but in the climate where experts are disregarded and the facebook soundbite wins truth loses. Just see someone in here who just ignores any evidence that disputes his claims

That would certainly be the reaction from some quarters, but not everyone who voted Leave based on the campaign’s distortions and lies will be a rabid conspiracy theorist.

we cannot ignore the will of the people just because we don’t like it

Just see someone in here who just ignores any evidence that disputes his claims

Wouldn’t go by the name of a Creole dish that is a lot more tasty than the tripe he normally serves up, would he?

the word advisory was never used in the run up to the vote. The voters believe it was a decision, the language used was about the nation deciding, Cameron said it in his resignation speech again. Irrespective of the legal terms of the referendum.

My point is, the terms of the referendum should have been debated fully, and the terms agreed and publicised.

Referendums should only be used for internal matters affecting the government directly. To have a referendum that immediately affects the UK’s standing in the world and how we are perceived as a people and nation is a failure of planning and politics by our present government.

doesnt have any to support his claims either

You are correct we are a point where all opinions are equal as if my opinion on Physics is equal to Stephen hawkings or my medical opinion the same as my Doctors etc

Counter “facts” from polemicists are largely worthless- global warming was the first area I recall this happening massively.

There is also a widespread distrust of the establishment – god knows how you look at give , boris and farage and don’t see spinning snakeoill salesman of the establishment though…stupidity I guess.

we cannot ignore the will of the people just because we don’t like it

It’s the will of substantially less than 50% of the voting population…

we cannot ignore the will of the people just because we don’t like it

we can ignore the will of the people if it puts this country at serious risk. That will play out over the coming months and years.

You could probably get a majority vote for all kinds of crazy shit, it never makes it right.

You can underline it as well next time, Junkyard, but the fact will remain that it is the will of substantially less then a majority of the adult population.

we cannot ignore the will of the people just because we don’t like it

It’s the will of substantially less than 50% of the voting population…

And there are serious doubts about the basis on which many of those votes were cast.

And “campaign promises” have been abandoned in record time.

And many leave voters now appear to be regretful.

I’m surprised there hasn’t been any subsequent polling on how people would vote if given a second go. Has there?

Junkyard – The plain fact is that parliament can ignore the result of the vote.

What we don’t yet know is if or how it might do so.

we cannot ignore the will of the people just because we don’t like it

I voted remain and I agree with this, we shouldn’t have had a referendum in the first place but we did, so we have to live with the result. We can’t keep having them until we get the *right* result and fudge the rules to ensure the *correct* occurs.

People in this country need to grow up and learn that when you make a decision you have to live with it. We voted in a government that promised a referendum, the rules were agreed in advance, the people then voted and the government of the day needs to honor the result and the government in waiting (vote leave) now need to deliver on their promises.

This isn’t a game, even if Boris & Co act like it you can’t hit reset and start again.

I am sure there will but the reality is for a second vote we ned unhappy leave voters to say this not unhappy remain voters

IMHO the only chance is if we have negotiate a “settlement” which is really crap with no EU access – ie what will actually happen- then we can ask if folk want to accept this
however it runes the risk of cementing Anti EU feeling for ever as we have “votes till we get the result we want.

IMHO the only chance is if we have negotiate a “settlement” which is really crap with no EU access – ie what will actually happen- then we can ask if folk want to accept this
however it runes the risk of cementing Anti EU feeling for ever as we have “votes till we get the result we want.

also the Sun/Mail/Farige would just repeat the same old nonsense as last time

the ‘experts’ would be ignored and theyd carry on regardless

Outers have caused a recession so expect them to sign now lol.

People in this country need to grow up and learn that when you make a decision you have to live with it.

I disagree, in this case.

When the referendum shouldn’t have been held for many pragmatic reasons; and one side lied their arse off, how can it be a good idea to stand by the result? That was only advisory anyway?

And in general, when you realise you’ve done something stupid, it’s brilliant to be able to have a get-out clause. And we do, in this case.

I’m surprised there hasn’t been any subsequent polling on how people would vote if given a second go. Has there?

[i]Of the 17.4 million people who voted Leave, 1.1 million now say they wish they had not, if the results of a Survation poll are to be believed.[/i]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-bregret-leave-petition-second-remain-latest-will-we-leave-a7105116.html

But then the pollsters are wrong most of the time.

Horatio this is exactly the trap so many politicains have fallen into, people think immigration is an issue, politician says this is racism and therefore wrong and therefore declares moral high ground and victory. Voter votes for a party who they believe is listening to them. Who is the winner ? Labour/Diane Abbot have been particularly guilty of this. Younhave to enagage on this issue, the government has all the data and could have prodiced some proper detailed analysis – they did not which onky leads you to believe the people are right and the government is cobering stuff up. Broad brish headline stats fool no one, people can see whats going on with their eyes and are not convinced of the supposed benefits

Being reflective as a nation and actually admitting we have made a mistake is far better than just saying, ‘yep made the decision, I guess we’d better screw ourselves over and just get on with it’.

It genuinely angers me with everyone saying we just need to get on with things. We as a nation need to take a real look at the implications now and actually see if we want to proceed with things.

It does not show any weakness in pausing and thinking carefully about something after a decision has been made.

But then the pollsters are wrong most of the time.

Yes absolutely. They do so much data normalisation after taking the survey they could prodice whatever resukt they wanted. Personally I think its time to have some new polling rules, eg ask 10,000 people minimum (not the 1,000 often used) insist they publish raw data as well as their results/adjustments. People would be shocked at the jiggery-pokery that goes on

Of the 17.4 million people who voted Leave, 1.1 million now say they wish they had not, if the results of a Survation poll are to be believed.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-bregret-leave-petition-second-remain-latest-will-we-leave-a7105116.html

But then the pollsters are wrong most of the time.

I bet most of the 18-24 yoofs would also get off their bums and vote stay too.

It does not show any weakness in pausing and thinking carefully about something after a decision has been made.

+1

Even my mobile phone asks me if I’m really sure when I tell it I want to do a factory reset.

@mrwhyte – admit mistakes. I like to hear some of that from the EU, Junker gone, comission disbanded and moving to fully elected only, massive pare down on eu budget, ecj for trade disputes only, freedom of movmement replaced by something else (eg top level visa system), stronger ecb and tighter reign on euro memenrs or even a two tier euro (been discussed, richer / poorer nations split) ….

Junker and the EU are too arrogant and have too many vested interests to do that, with only a few tweaks they couldhave ensured Caneron got a real renogotiation and avoided the Leave result. They took a punt on the Referendum and lost,

We as a nation

you mean this we that just voted over 50 percent, means split down the middle

kind of make its more you and them

the word advisory was never used in the run up to the vote.

People can read for themselves, but accept the wider point

The voters believe it was a decision, the language used was about the nation deciding, Cameron said it in his resignation speech again. Irrespective of the legal terms of the referendum.

By the looks of things, voters believed lots of things that were not true. Makes no difference apparently. So we cant cherry pick.

If anyone is thinking about the “advisory” aspect of the referendum, its most likely to be Bojo and Gove. They have exposed themselves now and there are few hiding places.

IMHO the only chance is if we have negotiate a “settlement” which is really crap with no EU access – ie what will actually happen- then we can ask if folk want to accept this

Merkel’s spokesman is now saying there won’t be any negotiations, formal or otherwise until they have our Art 50 letter in their hand.

But that might be a fib too.

Of the 17.4 million people who voted Leave, 1.1 million now say they wish they had not, if the results of a Survation poll are to be believed.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-bregret-leave-petition-second-remain-latest-will-we-leave-a7105116.html
But then the pollsters are wrong most of the time.

I bet most of the 18-24 yoofs would also get off their bums and vote stay too.

BBC Today program reported however that a proportion of people who voted Remain would now vote Out. Which i find equally bewildering as the Out vote in the first place. based on the poll they reported (sorry, don’t remember whose it was) the majority would now be 400,000 but still siding with Leave.

I don’t know if anyone’s polled the ‘I didn’t vote first time but now i would’ types, but my perception is while that would also be split, there would be a predominance of Remain in that segment simply because people thought they didn’t need to vote because it wa sa foregone conclusion.

Can we sue Johnson and Gove?

Out of all of this cluster….. I would hope there’s two good things that come out of this:

1. That the public are more engaged in how the country is run, the turnout in the referendum being higher than the last general election begins to point to this.

2. More people learn to not just believe what’s being said and do a bit of research yourself to see if what’s being said is true, half true or just fantasy.